jwall

Dan, Thanks for the reply. Well we have no boy leadership so hence why something needs to change. Follow my thought, it should be older boys show younger boys. Correct? Well we have the void of older boys, see they have piano lessons and such and cant come to meetings and they are busy and stuff (a new Eagles parent explanation to me as to why they couldn't come to a meeting or camp out in 18 months). So who else is going to show the younger boys how its done? See our problem? If you have a solution of what to do let me know. I have racked my brain on this one. I can not find a solution other than show them how its done to get it back on track, then the others can show the new ones coming in. Thanks Jon

Bevah, Thanks for the advice. I would like to say I do try and introduce new ideas or fun with the younger boys on the camp outs. Tried to do a dutch oven cooking demo but that got blown out of the water as thats the SM "thingy". As for projecting my attitude towards my son and influencing his decision for "should we stay or should we go now" as proclaimed by The Clash, I let him choose as this is for him. He came up to me and said "Hey Pop, how come we dont do anything in the meetings except play these dumb games like dodgeball? When are we going to learn something?" Mind you my son is an uber geek (guess he gets it from his dad) and loves Scouts but he feels something is lacking. I appreciate the advice and it looks like we will ride it out for a few months and see if anything changes ... and during that time be looking around at other troops in the area to lay the ground work if we are going to go. YIS Jon Eagle Scout Class of 1992

Thanks Lisabob, I agree it is always harder to lead than follow and I personally think thats what happend in our meeting with the SM, they were torn between should we stay with what we know or let me take over. Change can be a scary thing. I know my son and the other Scouts that are having problems will all be going together so I am sure that will ease the transition. As for perfect, one can only wish. I just want one that is actually doing close to the program not this mutated ball of wax. J

I am enclosing my replies after the questions, it will probably make it easier Jwall, I've read your post but it seems a bit vague to me. You say the Scoutmaster runs the Troop like a dictatorship - his way or no way - so I ask for a bit more information about your troop. What exactly is 'his way'? His way is as follows, he does it all, the ASM's are told not to do a thing, not help out, not run a skill for the boys (ie have a hiking demonstration), or show them altertnative ways to get merit badges (we have sea world by us and they held a camp, more boys would hav signed up to go if they knew, he said we are not a merit badge factory.) Then when it all goes bad he blames the ASM's We have boys who dont camp and dont come to meetings in 18months an they make it to Eagle? That shows Scout Spirit. He flips out when you tell him gear is bust (ill use an example of the adult leaders equipment our stove has 2 temperatures off and full blast. Hs reply " it worked fine years ago" He hasnt been on a trip in 18 months so how ould he knows what works" You've been with the troop for nine months. Did you and your son, and some of the other upset parents, cross-over from Webelos? No not at all, I was an ASM at another troop that got phased out, The other parents have been there for 2 + years. What is the outdoor program like? How many times in that nine months have you gone camping? What other activities have occurred in that time? Did you go to summer camp? Yes I personally went to our local summer camp about 40 minutes away for the whole time. Our SM never showed up once. We had some emergencies and he never called back. We usually go camping once a month but the trips are boring and less and less boys are showing up. As for other activites, you mean we can do stuff during the rest of the month (I joke) ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. No hikes, no backpacking, no patrol let alone good turn by the Scouts. NADDA. Fifteen Scouts have left in nine months? Wow, in our area that would completely knock out several troops. Were the boys that left new cross-overs (perhaps with your son) or Scouts that had been in the Troop for a while? How many boys are left now? What is the age range of the Scouts?We have about 30 left after the 15, age range of boys 1st and 2nd years make up most of our troop so say 75 % and 25%older nonexistent boys. As for the ones who left it was a mixture, some older some new, some new transferred Eagles, they sat in the meeting for 4 weeks SM never said boo or assigned them to a patrol. How old is your Troop? How long has the SM been in the job? Is he trained? How about the Committee people and ASMs? Are they trained? As for how old is the troop not quite sure 10 15 years. Trained as far as I know we all are, we ASMs dont have access to the troop master as they dont give us that privi. Your post says there is no boy leadership. What are the Scouts in PORs required to do? What are the meetings like? Who runs them? Any skills sessions going on? Games? Does your troop have a PLC and, if so, when do they meet and what do they do during the meetings? Meetings are a joke, POR boys sit and play magic all night most of the time. Skills sessions ya maybe once every 3 months when I and a few others **** about it, Games seems all they do. The SPL has come to the meeting going yup didnt plan anything guys, we are just going to play games. Funny the SM son is the SPL hmmmm a link? You post that you "have gathered from a few trusty sources" that your Troop is way off course. That indicates to me that you haven't made the observations yourself, perhaps because you have not yet been to ASM training and do not know the methods of Scouting and how they should be implemented in a Troop? I have been to training became an Eagle Scout so am Quite familiar with the program. As for observation myself, I have been to all campouts except one (more than the 8 more than the SM), I cook at the majority, I have missed no meeting and one committee meeting so Ya I have seen the issues and problems first hand, as from Trusty sources I would say they are people in district, people who have written books on being a SM and some websites. No uniform code in your Troop. What does that mean? Does anyone wear the uniform? Does the SM? Do you? LEt see we have wrinkled and dirty shirts, no shirts, jeans, no neckerchiefs or hats, hmmm looking like hobos. I wear the uniform the SM does maybe 5% of the boys, 95% of the adults do some just get off right from work to be there, Adults and parents want to do things for the boys. Can you give me some examples of what you mean? We would like to do patrol hikes and other camping during the month, we get shot down by NOT WHILE IM SM or NOT IN MY TROOP. We want the boys to actually learn something and since the older boys are playing magic or jerking around we would liek to show them some hiking demonstrations, or how to cook that would be a good one since most burn water. (I put together a 88 page how to cook cookbook with recipes for the boys ... ya that has disappeared. even after I got props for my Dutch OVen Skills. That is supposed to be the SM badge of honor cooking the Dutch Oven I heard. Well sorry for working in a gourmet restaurant for 3 + years and I know how to cook) You post you will stick it out for a few more months to see if any changes are made that supposedly have been in the works for two years. What, specifically, are the changes you're expecting? Changes ANYTHIN!!! older boys who lead, skills, patrol competitions, learn somethign anything for goodness sakes. Learn the cha cha something so we dont sit there and keep looking at the clock and swear its broken cause time stands still. I ask all these questions to get a clearer picture of your Troop. From your original post, all I can gather is that you dislike the way the SM is running things and have already tried to oust him. I can say that from a parent's point of view a few years ago when I stepped up as SM, it may have appeared that I was a dictator. I was trying to revive a failing troop and had to take a pretty hard line in the beginning to jump start the program. As far as the SM not going on any campouts: I am a SM who does not go on every campout. I did in the first couple of years, but sadly a health issue has caused me to back out on the more strenuous or cold adventures. But you at least go on a campout here and there. His work wont allow him the flexibility there. Seriously our campouts are so bad, boys are in complete anarchy and he never sees or deals with it. If things can't be worked out in your Troop, are there others you can join? If you crossed-over from Webelos, did you visit these other troops? If so, what made you choose the Troop you are in now? Yes there are others to join we know of one just starting out. No I did not cross over (short reply to a long answer xwife refused to let me be a part of my sons Webelos experience) In the end, whether you decide to step up as SM or start a new troop with some of the other parents and boys, keep in mind that it will not be easy. Sure, as Gold Winger posted, the mechanics and paperwork of starting a troop is easy. But, the operation of that new Troop or the resuscitation of the old will take enormous effort and commitment - for several years. I've seen my share of disgruntled parents starting a troop, only to have it fold in a few years when their boys quit, aged out, Eagled, or whatever. This is the situation I stepped into when my younger son joined the Troop. It was started by a few upset parents and struggled for years. To run a successful troop, among many other things, you have to be there for ALL the boys. I agree he needs to be there for ALL the boys ALL THE TIME. My SM missed 2 campouts and 0 meeings when I was a boy thats it. So does that give you some food for thought and clarification?

Im sorry about your lack of volunteers, we have tons. You can borrow some of ours if you need to. Just kidding. So since you are biased about SM's, let me ask you this; What would you consider being a role model to the boys then... Jon

Thanks Beav, I think we will stick it out for a few months and see if there is monumental change as he swears its in the works (supposedly for 2 years now) As for stepping up to the plate as SM (that is how this whole snafu began. Everyone supposedly wanted change but no one would step up. I put myself on the chopping block.) So ya fun times. Jon

Thanks Beav. Well as an ASM I find it pretty sad that he believes its a boy run troop, and no mentoring or guidance comes from the adults. I was reading Green Bar Bills site a link I found through here and we have the Gang mentality. We have lost at least 15 boys in 9 months because nothing is getting done correctly, we have no uniform code, patrol spirit is out the door, ASM's and parents who want to help and do things for the boys whatever it may be get pushed aside to a SM who says my way or no way. As for my boy being happy or the boys in general being happy I would say a 6. Its because their friends are there is the only reason I see. I dont want to jump ship. I have voiced concerns to the CC and SM numerous times before and they say MY WAY OR NO WAY. We will see. As a wise man once said be the change you want to see in the world. Jon

Well about the cup of coffee comment... I had a grin ear to ear as I heard from one ASM who has been here for years said "I took him out to a nice dinner told him my concerns and said you dont have the time to dedicate to the boys." He said the SM looked at him and said "No I will not step down and you cant make me" LOL so i guess it is best to leave quietly with the others who are upset at the way things are being run. Its a shame they will loose 9 + parents and ASMs and boys over this Thanks everyone

Thanks for your reply, Thing is hes not training or doing anything. Isnt our core program based on outdoor activities? I am just so frustrated. I agree with trying not to try and fix a broken troop. I have been with them for 9 months and it gets worse not better. As for starting a new troop how long and how hard is the process? Thanks again

Hi Folks first time posting so please bare with me if I go off course. Our current Troop from what I have gathered from a few trusty sources is way off course, We have no boy leadership at all and the current SM runs things like a dictatorship. His way or no way. Well we (a few parents) tried to vote him out; but he is still there due to him and the committee chair playing a little dirty (calling in people on the committee who never show up to any meetings, CC plainly being on his side and not partial and voting, and ridiculing the parents/ASMs for their concerns etc...). So be it if thats how they want to be... My question to you is this. (this is actually my main gripe with things) Where can I find exact rules/regulations about being a SM. They have laid out guidelines for the ASM's and the boys about being ACTIVE but the SM says he doesnt have to follow them because they are just guidelines and no where in the BSA policy is that he has to Camp or show up to the activities as long as there are two registered adults he is is doing his "job". Or is this all a waste of time and should I and the others go look for a new troop Thanks in advance YIS Eagle Class of 1992