Juggler

>>What do you consider the start and end time for a BOR? I think a BoR starts when the scout walks into the room and greets the board. The review ends when the scout walks out of the room with the knowledge that he has advanced (or not). Between those times, we have a young man who is really at the mercy of a group of adults who can criticize any aspect of the scout's behavior. And for some of these boys and young men, there may not be an adult in the room who is very sympathetic to them. Maybe only one or two has seen them on campouts and in service projects. Our COR is a former SM of our troop. I asked him how he felt about two-hour BoRs, and he said it was probably Ok for Star/Life ranks. I feel, as do all of you, that two hours is way out of line. What's my next step? Council? (This message has been edited by Juggler)

This most recent BoR was for Star rank. The scout is a really solid citizen. He's a little bit of a know-it-all, and is big for his age. But he knows his stuff, does all the service projects, and is always willing to work with younger scouts. There was no question that he would pass. Although I wasn't in there, what I heard (2nd hand, of course) was that the scout was told, over and over again, that he had an attitude problem. Another question - is it appropriate, for me as SM, to ask the scout about the board of review process, and whether he thought he was treated fairly?

I few months ago I started a thread because my son (I am a SM) had a two-hour board, which he failed. Well, another scout in my troop had a two-hour board last week. The scout passed, but the father of the scout asked me the other night what was going on with the Advancement Chair. After the first episode, I complained to the CC. And after I yelled at the advancement chair at a troop committee meeting, he responded with a long email about how he was the best judge of how long a board should take, and he wasn't going to let the clock decide how long it would take the board to make a decision. In my opinion, the CC is unlikely to do anything about this. Do I have any other alternatives?

I had a meeting with my ASMs a few weeks ago to discuss the upcoming year, and review what worked and what didn't work last year. One of the things I was told was that what worked best was my Scoutmaster minute. One of the ASMs said it was the only time in our meetings when all of the Scouts' attention was focused, and all the Scouts were listening. Of course, that means we need to do a better job of getting our scouts to listen to the SPL and patrol leaders, but it was still nice to hear.(This message has been edited by Juggler)(This message has been edited by Juggler)

I am very grateful to all that have taken the time to contribute to this thread. I appreciate getting the lowdown on the power structure arrangement. For the curious, I have decided that if the TC fires my ASM, I too will go. Partly out of loyalty (in the Scout Law sense), but mostly because of the lack of trust. If the TC isn't willing to accept my statements that this ASM is an asset to the troop, then obviously they have no confidence that I know what I'm doing or that I'm a good judge of character, and it would be best for all concerned if they found another scoutmaster.

Yes, I do like her, although it took me a while to figure that out. Of the other three ASMs in the troop, one likes her, one doesn't, and the other is ambivalent. But all the ASMs agree that overall she's an asset for the troop. But as I said in my original post, the TC really wants me to get rid of her. And I don't really know who has the authority here.(This message has been edited by Juggler)

She's very demanding with the boys, and asks a lot of them (she deals mainly with Star and Life scouts). However, if she receives an honest effort (even though it may fall short of what she asked) then she is effusive in her praise of them. And scouts that have been under her tutelage all have strong scout skills (knots, first aid, canoeing, etc.) and many of them have developed good leadership and people skills. She has had an issue with one scout in particular, but she's not the only ASM in the troop that has trouble getting this one scout to perform. Before I became Scoutmaster, I was told (by the TC chair) that she said of my oldest son that he would never become an Eagle if she had anything to say about it (he was going through a "loner" phase at the time). Well he later did attain Eagle rank, and credits much of his growth within the troop to her advocacy. Kind of a long-winded reply to your question. The shorter version is this - she works well with the boys, but it takes them a while to get used to her. And she's much better on outings than she is in our weekly meetings, and that's when the TC members are more likely to see her.

I am scoutmaster, and several members of my TC have had a long-standing feud ongoing with one of my ASMs. This ASM has a bit of an abrasive personality, but if when you look at the whole package, the positives far outweigh the negatives. The TC has been sending me strong signals that they want me to fire this ASM. And now the chartered org. rep has also joined the discussion on the side of the TC. They (the TC) claim there have been numerous complaints about this ASM, but they won't give me names, and no one has comlained directly to me. Should I give more credence to the TC than I have been? (Not to be sexist, but all of the feuding parties are women.) Also, does the TC have the authority to tell the SM who should and shouldn't be the ASMs?

I can't find a copy of Baden Powell's Tempest, but I disagree that it's small stuff. My son is not the strongest candidate for Life rank that our board has seen, but I have gotten feedback that several other Star scouts in our troop are now extremely concerned about their upcoming boards - they think that if my son couldn't achieve Life rank, they don't have a chance (and these kids are really good scouts). And they see several other current Life scouts (sons of troop committee members) with very questionable leadership skills and scout spirit who did have successful BORs.

My thanks to all that have taken the time to reply. I think the training suggestion is a good idea; and that's where I'll start.

I have been SM for about 8 months, and have just come back from a troop committee meeting. Some background - a couple of months ago, my son had a board of review for life scout, and did not advance. The review took about two hours. There was a troop committee meeting two nights later, and only one member of the board of review saw fit to attend that meeting; the advancement chair was conspicuously absent. At the meeting tonight, during the advancement chair's report, he was talking about Eagle BORs, and in reference to the discussions that take place, he used the phrase, in reference to candidates who were sent out of the room - "let them sweat." Well, that really set me off, and I let him know that his attitude was inappropriate (Ok, I said a little more than that). He wound up apologizing to me and the rest of the committee for his remark, but I'm still upset. Back when I was doing BORs, I had heard other adults also use the phrase, but until my own son was involved, it hadn't hit home to me what the scouts go through when the adults are determining whether or not they advance. Here's the advice I need: I'm considering asking the troop committee chair to relieve the advancement chair of his duties. Am I overreacting, or should I be concerned that the wrong person is doing this job?