Jschlich

It is a pleasure to pass the word that the sales agreement for the Chicago Council to sell the Owasippe property has been terminated. Also, a Stipulation And Order Of Dismissal [with prejudice] has been agreed to between the Chicago Council and the Township concerning the zoning issues that have been in court. Several years of grass roots effort by many has been recognized by these actions of the Chicago Council. The complete message from the Council President can be found at www.chicagobsa.org.

nldscout - I ask again. Will you be the first to underwrite the expense of such action? There has already been $1-million spent by the Chicago Council with the result being that the court ruled in favor the township. I suggest that the feelings of many about the CAC is reflected in the above comment concerning popcorn. Perhaps starting with your underwriting the Council can spend it's dollars on programming and leave the legal expenses of appealing a court decision to those who want to donate for the purpose of the appeal. Much seems to be happening that can cure the ills of CAC so why not let it evolve as it will?

anarchist - There has been several years of rank and file membership objection. Over the past few years the COR's have not elected the board slates that have been proposed. Currently the Board that sits is one that was selected through the BSA Central Region office. Also, the current SE has been appointed by BSA National to administer the Council. Not sure that heads are on pikes but there are many who set out down this course no longer a part of the Board. A hand few of those who voted to go down this course are still around but seem to have flip-flopped.

nldscout - Will you be the first to underwrite the expense of such action? There has already been $1-million spent by the Chicago Council with the result being that the court ruled in favor the township. Perhaps with your underwriting the Council can spend it's dollars on programming and leave the legal expenses of appealing a court decision to those who want to donate for that purpose.

Owasippe operated 6 weeks of camp in 2008. Opened 6/29. Last day was 8/9.

The core issue of the Chicago Council decision to sell Owasippe has not changed. That was decided more than 3.5 years ago. At issue has been the decision to sell to a residential developer. The Council took on an obligation to sell to the developer, in exchange for over $19-million. In addition the Council took on the obligation to have the entire property zoning changed from Recreational to Residential. The Council has already spent more than $1-million to effect a zoning change. The expense has been paid from Council operating funds. There has been no special fundraising nor appeal for financial support from the Council to demonstrate public support for the property sale. The $1-million spent have come from the donations and fund-raising effort of the Council. Support appears to be strong for the Council from within the Chicago donor community. The Council has had continuing success in increasing the operating income from institutional and private donors through the many fundraising efforts aimed at the donor community. The Township, defending their local zoning ordinances, has spend in excess of $250-thousand. The expense has been paid from the Township operating funds as well as donations from other governmental units state-wide and donations from individuals. Support appears to be strong for the Township from a broad coalition of governmental authorities and individuals from across the nation. The township has had continuing success in increasing the donations to their specially dedicated legal defense fund. On the legal front, the Circuit Court complaint filed by the Council has been heard and decidied. Each and every point of the Council complaint has been found in favor of the Township. The process was a bench trial heard over 9 days. The Council has decided to go forward with an Appeal of the Judgement and is in the process of filing what is necessary with the Michigan Court of Appeals. The issues of Council governance still remains a subject of interest to some. The basic lay of the land there is that the National BSA Council has installed one of their employees as Scout Executive/CEO for the Council for day-to-day operations. The SE/CEO reamins on the National Council payroll during his current assignment. Also, the National BSA Council has selected a new Board of Directors to be seated as the Directors of the Council. I hope this summary answers the questions.

nldscout writes, "If I was ruling on this, I would rule against the township. I beleive they are in the wrong here." Amazing! You're offering a ruling based on not hearing [or even reading] the 9 days of court testimony. Based on not having read the 4+ file boxes of evidence and pleadings. Have you even read the 19 page Opinon? I have done all of the above. Still waiting for contact outside this group concerning your wager offer.

nldscout - I guess the only thing I can respond with is the final words from who you call "a local judge" along side the final words of the Supreme's in the 2005 Kelo vs. New London case: Local judge: "this court declines the invitation to thwart the will of the public as expressed through the Township Board." Supreme's: "The Court declines to second-guess the wisdom of the means the city has selected to effectuate its plan." I'll entertain your offer of a wager outside this group.

Thank you SSScout for your question. The 5+ year effort of the Owasippe Outdoor Education Center (OOEC)to preserve the Owasippe property and to assure that Scout camping is preserved on the property would appreciate any financial assistance. The OOEC is a 501©(3) organization with it's Vision for the preservation of the property, including America's oldest Scout Camp, at www.ooec.org. Jim Schlichting Whitehall MI

A Circuit Court Opinion has been issued that solidly sides with the township's zoning of the Owasippe property. Residential housing as proposed by the Chicago Council has never been allowed on the property and has ruled that the township has the ability to maintain that designation. With probably more than $1-million already spent on the case it has been stated by Council officials that an appeal will go forth.

LH writes: "My plan was to never let this get started but there was no support for that because "It will never happen". My plan was to stop the sale at the beginning when Stone's track record was revealed. " So you have no plan now and you prefer what you said, "...I hope Stone wins and builds as many one room shacks as he can." So sad that you choose to support residential development over the conservation of natural resources. It's amazing how many Scouting members truely have their own selfish motives and would rather trade natural resources for the maximum cash-in to run the business of Scouting. ######## LH further writes: "In your search of assesment records did you find any other "same zoned" property that was "reassesed" at the same time CAC's was reassested? The other camps not owned by CAC you mentioned for instance." My research found that the all of the commonly zoned property was increased at the same time. What did you expect me to find? Did you expect to find that CAC was subject to, as you have called it in the past, "resort rates" that no other camp was subject to? Need I remind you that except for Blue Lake Fine Arts Camp no other camp in the township exceeds the property tax exemption of 400 acres granted for not-for-profit property? I found that the 4,300+ acres owned by the CAC, the acres above the exempt allowance, had taxes levied at the rate of all other property zoned the same in the township.

LH writes: "I can only figure that your are referring to the sale of Owasippe Lake which to my knowledge occurred after the change in tax assessment, and some say as a result of the reassessment. Land adjacent to CAC's as I understand it was NOT reassessed at the higher rate at that time. That is to say all the property in that area of that zoning type was not reassessed at that time." I am refering to the CAC disposal of about 8,000 acres of Owasippe property which included Owasippe Lake and all of the Owasippe property that was between that Lake and the current Western boundary of the property. This property disposal (almot twice the size of what reamins of the Owasippe property) created the value that was assesed on the remaining portion of the property. Your statement of understanding is just plain wrong. Perhaps you need to go to the Muskegon County records as well as see the assessor records and ask questions of the assesor to know what the actual evolution of taxes on the property have been. Something that I have done. Is your information based on looking at the documentation and discovering the time line and various events or.... is it based on some campfire talk based on speculation? I'd still like to know where you came up with the information you gave that the Owasippe property was once assessed at "resort rates"? What resort? What proof do you have for saying that? **************** LH further writes: "That says it all. This is not a plan to save "Owasippe" it is a plan to prevent houses being built. Opening the 4800 acres to the public seems like a funny way to "preserve the flora and fauna" and continue the near 100 year camp traditions." Where is your plan? It's real easy to sit by a keyboard and dispense false information, dis people, make judgements and do nothing constructive. You seem good at it. For five years others have done some very heavy lifting to keep the remaining Owasippe property from becoming a housing development. Ahhhhh...yes. I found your statement, you need not explain further. As you said, "IF those originators of the save OWASIPPE campaign sought to use the name and emotional power associated with it to champion their fight then I hope Stone wins and builds as many one room shacks as he can." Another statement based on what? More campfire chatter based on pure emotion and a desire to dis the people, who for whatever reason you woke up with today, who are attempting to do something other than have houses built on the property. Under the plan you obviously know little about, The flora and fauna will be preserved by a conservation easement being placed on the property. A conservation easemant that would limit any redevelopment on the property to the footprints of development that the Boy Scouts created....nothing more. Do you have a Plan LH? What is your Plan?

Lisabob writes: "If I'm wrong about this, I'll be the first to celebrate, mind you." Celebration may be possible but it certainly is too early to buy any champagne concerning the Owasippe property. Some time ago the good people of the State of Michigan were wise enough to establish, through a vote of the people, the Michigan Natural Recources Trust Fund. This is a fund that collects the royalties paid for the extraction of oil, gas and such resources in Michigan. MNRTF funds can only be used for the purchase of property and for improvements to property with natural resource value in Michigan. It is possible that MNRTF funds may be available to finance a portion of the effort to preserve the Owasippe property. I'm not saying that this is a fact, only that it has been brought up as a possible part of an overall plan. So while there is a budget problem with the State of Michigan the people of this State were forward thinking about what to do with money earned from the extraction of non-renewal resources. That fund just awarded $33-million for 2007. A rather nice amount of money going into areas all across the State.

LH writes: "I do apologize Jim, if your going to dis a man you should get his name right." ********* Yes, it is rather important to get names correct. I guess how important it is for you to dis someone is a judgement call that only you can make. Take the best shots you can man. I can take it. ********* LH further writes: "Late 70's early 80's Blue Lake Township rezoned the property from what ever it was to a higher rate. Chicago Area Council requested for years to have the zoning changed BLT refused." and also wrote: "I was angry when Blue Lake Township originally rezoned the property and started taxing the camp at resort rates but I thought I understood the need." *********** This is an interesting spin that you choose to put on these events. I feel it's important to put forth more complete information. It would appear that you have mixed property assesment and zoning in a convenient but inaccurate manner. It sounds good for your simple statement but is inaccurate in fact. In the late '70's and early '80's there was an increase of the property tax assesment on the Owasippe property. There was not a zoning change as you claim. The increase of assesment was because of the recently established value of same zoned property.... property directly adjacent to the CAC owned property. Same zoning = same tax assesment. This is a common and legal method for assesors to determine the value of property. What you have refused to include in your statements is that the values used to make the tax assesments were created by the CAC sale of the like zoned property. In essence, the CAC sold property for X,XXX.00 dollar value but did not want to pay the taxes when their remaining same zoned property was appraised at the sale price they had received. *********** LH goes on: "I was angry when Blue Lake Township originally rezoned the property and started taxing the camp at resort rates but I thought I understood the need." What the hack are "resort rates'? Is this your opinion or fact? The fact is that the tax assesments were based on the values of the CAC property established by the completed sale of same zoned CAC property. NONE of that property was zoned nor taxed at whatever you choose to call "resort rates". Your further comments are based on false or fabricated evidence.

eolesen writes: "To keep all of Owasippe tax exempt, the land could be subdivided into 400 acre parcels, with individual councils and other not-for-profits owning them. If CAC is unable to sell it as residential property, I don't know if they'll still go forward with selling it. If they do, someone should be lobbying the state to just buy it as a wildlife refuge..." ********* There are many alternatives to the sale of the property by the CAC for residential development. However, the Chicago Scouts have decided to invest what I believe is close to $1-million of their money to insist that they have the right to have residential development on the land they own. Take a look at www.ooec.org to see the alternative to residential development that seems to have garnered support from many people.