Aquila

Why WOULDN''T it be acceptable (assuming it fulfills the MB requirements)? We homeschool and teach directly to the badge. It''s not too much different for a 10th grader in government school who is working on the US Constitution. If the work is being done to a satisfactory level, does it matter where it''s completed?

"In our unit, we do not have dues; everyone pays the $10 recharter/registration fee; and we all pay as we go." Just out of curiosity about troops that do this, who pays for badges and awards? Our troop is only ~20 boys, yet we spent $325 for merit badges and awards for our last COH. With no dues, how is that paid for? We have one big troop fundraiser per year. Just one - a huge rummage sale. We do Scout fundraisers most every month.

"Five search teams combing the mountainous, heavily wooded area have not found any sign of the scouts" -- the only downside to properly taught "Leave No Trace" principles ;-).

I disagree that we have a responsibility to recruit ANY one group more than others. We don''t treat kids with disabilities any differently, one way or the other. Most of our recruiting is done one-on-one, anyway. No special recruiting, no shunning -- though I could see not wanting a child to join whose "needs" disrupted the whole troop and ruined the experience for others. What kind of "special needs" are you referring to? In our troop, we have kids with CP, seizure disorders, Aspies, severe anxiety, and Tourette''s. And probably a whole slew of other things I don''t know about. They''re all expected to follow the same rules, as much as is in their power. They do. We don''t make the kid with the neck tic sit still, or the kid who rocks to stim, or the one who shushes people without thinking, but it''s amazing what they can accomplish when they have to.

We have a fantastic one with hundreds of uniforms. It''s housed in the back room of the business run by the volunteer -- good for him because we always buy something when we''re there, good for us because the uniforms are free. Most of the uniforms he receives are from thrift shops - he went to each one, told them about his program, and they donate them whenever they come through. He just has to pick them up when they call. Goodwill was especially accommodating. He takes them in any condition, fixes them if he can, uses them as camp uniforms if he can''t. As far as *need*, they don''t ask a Scout to show need. They only ask that if you take, you give as well if you can. On top of the regional one, we keep a troop closet downstairs that parents voluntarily stock. For instance, I know we have a snow campout coming up in January, and came across a rummage sale that had 10 bibs of various sizes for $10. They''re now downstairs waiting. Boots, backpacks, and camping gear are there for the taking.

Our adults eat with the boys, and they contribute the same amount as the boys. Since they get to choose which patrol to eat with, it''s a little extra incentive for the boys to do better meal planning. After all, it''s easier to feed 8 people with $64 than it is to feed 4 with $32.

PS We''re a REPUBLIC, not a democracy.

There''s no such thing as teaching in an unbiased manner. Lisa''s "straightforward" questions are a good example. Even math is not untouched by a teacher''s world view. It''s why, as parents, we have the responsibility to know from what point of view those who have influence over our children are coming from. That includes teachers, Scoutmasters, pastors, and anyone else who will be shaping their minds. If some parents haven''t bothered to check beforehand, it''s a little surprising that they get upset afterward. It''s yet another reason that troops should strive to have more than one merit badge counselor whenever possible. Scouts are going to get a very different perspective from me for the Citizenship badges than from another MBC, who is receiving taxpayer assistance.

We have "regular hikes" and "speed hikes". My younger son is always the last in line. He can do full hikes (10 milers), it just takes him longer. Our troop hikes at the pace of the slowest hiker (him), and our first really long one, his slow pace made it miserable for some of the faster kids. So we opt him out of the speed hikes. He doesn''t seem to have a problem with it, since he''s included on the others. When he''s older and past his growth spurt, I expect he''ll be able to hike with the faster boys. Is he the only Scout that falls behind? You could always designate the hikes and trips at different levels - whether rank, age, or speed. It doesn''t always have to be the whole troop going. Just make sure there are SOME that he''s able to do.

We have the $100 yearly commitment, too, which works out to $2/wk. We''re also a troop with many families living under the poverty line (some WAY under). We don''t waive the dues, even for the kid whose mother is in jail and father unknown -- we DO provide fund-raising opportunities for the Scouts throughout the year. There''s no reason a boy in our troop wouldn''t be able to earn his dues with minimal effort. It''s much better for them to earn it. FORCING a boy to sell popcorn to be included is just wrong. But I''m not sure it''s outside of his power to require it. Could you just black through that part of the agreement, then discuss it with the SM? It may be some overzealous committee member that came up with the idea, and he may welcome having someone strongly disagree with it. The popcorn is grossly overpriced, anyway. We don''t do the popcorn thing - much to our Council''s dismay. When the price isn''t embarrassing to ask, maybe we''ll change our minds.

>>> Of course, one option is to celebrate Oct 31 for its other historic date: Reformation Day, the day Martin Luther hung the 95 Theses on the church door in Wittenburg.

Scoutldr, you bring up good points. There''s an article at http://members.aol.com/belfairhs/cost.html written about the cost of schooling in CA. The figures are from 2000, but they''re probably close. "To pay one elementary-age child''s ADA, I would need to fit the following example: * My home is valued at $766,500, and * I spend $34,237 per year on items which are charged sales tax, and * My taxable income is $45,650 per year." Gern might qualify there *s*, but most of us won''t. So the government education cost is being borne by those without children - or by those home educating or putting their children in private schools. Government-run schools didn''t actually happen until the late 1800s. Prior to that, "public schools" were privately funded by businesses and local residents -- voluntarily. When I look at the original McGuffey readers from 1836 and what was expected from students at that time, only the most competitive schools of today even approach that level. When the government takes control, whether it''s health care or education, quality in general does not go UP.

Thanks for all the input. Sounds like a worthwhile experience. Now if I could just have Gern''s job to swing them all... No way the boys could earn that on their own here.

>>How does that work? I''''ve not heard of this before. How do they stay "in the system" and yet be homeschooled?

In order to provide a diverse and higher level program we are actually shuttling our child TO the inner city school which is the only one that has IB and MYP programs running at the middle school level. Yes, there are MORE children there that I would normally not choose for him to associate with, but he knows what he wants(has had a stated goal to attend Annapolis since he was ten) and knows the kinds of choices(people, activities) he has to make to get there. In the mean time he is learning to interact with people of other races who attend the downtown school - an opportunity he would not have had in our otherwise largely homogeneous Anglo community.

My sons'' troop is planning a Philmont trek for 2009. Cost is about $1800 per Scout including transportation. For those of you who have gone, is it worth the money? For the same amount, they could do four council high adventure weeks (whitewater rafting, a horse trek, a rock climbing and hiking trek, and sailing). The SM is strongly encouraging Philmont; just seems way pricy for what they''re offering.

Appears I''m not authorized to edit my own message :-D. Here''s a listing of Texas High Adventure Bases. http://66.39.157.165/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=513

I was looking through some of the High Adventures on the main BSA site this evening. Not the official National ones, but the ones offered by some of the councils. OR, TX, WY, and MD seem to have some really interesting ones. They''re about the same cost as the merit badge mill the boys went to this summer (An Eagle-required badge in less than an hour????). Our SM is tossing around doing our own camp this summer rather than have a bored 14-year old "teach" Citizenship.

Thanks, Kudu, for some very interesting reading! I would love for BSA to move closer Scouting''s original intentions -- I blame the lawyers (of course, I blame the lawyers for most everything ;-)). scoutldr, every school is different. The point is not that children who go through a government education are all "bad" -- it''s "How much BETTER could they have been educated at home?" The answer for some is "Not at all." If you support the education and the peer socialization they''re getting at a government school, then THAT''S where they should be. I can say unequivocally that mine are better off NOT being there.

And yes, just because he cut off his manhood, he''d still be male. Michael Jackson''s still black (In your situation, what does his being black have to do with it?) Justify it all you want, they''re still spitting in the face of the Almighty.

>>> "The ego and arrogance factor is at work." Yes, thanks for that kind interpretation of the motives of other Scouting volunteers. I would have said it''''s more likely to be the hassle factor. Maybe the new volunteer doesn''''t have a list of all the insurance levels of all of the drivers. Maybe the council fax machine is busy repeatedly, or maybe it''''s a pain to drive an hour to the council office to drop it off. Now, is it a big hassle? No, of course not. We do file tour permits. But the hassle factor did lead us to stop caring very much whether our merit badge counselors are registered with council. All the work every year to make sure everyone is registered in all of their badges, and seemingly for no apparent purpose. We only have so much time, and we can decide how we want to devote it to the program. But I don''''t think we''''re making the decision out of arrogance.

>>If they''''re singin'''' Metallica and Weird Al and the theme songs from SpongeBob and the Sopranos, then we adults should be singin'''' Metallica and Weird Al and bellowin'''' SpongeBob Squarepants right along with them

I''m happy to see AHG expanding. Their rapid growth isn''t a big surprise given the choices GSUSA has made in the past few decades. GA, my sister worked in the LA Headquarters for a time and her experiences are very similar to yours. Are there great GS troops? Absolutely! But for those that disagree with the *POLICIES* of GSUSA, AHG is a wonderful alternative. If you support what they''re doing, you should stay! Just as if you don''t agree with AHG''s policies, you certainly should NOT put your daughter into it. In the same way that if you reject BSA''s "Duty to God", Spiral Scouts is a much better alternative.

Thanks GA. Your support and comments are appreciated. Yes, *WE* had my son moved out of the influence of a particular child. He''s 13 and still a boy. Bad company still corrupts good morals. Scouting does not mean parents forgo their authority; it''s about training boys to become men who are good citizens. It means offering him protection while giving him enough responsibility to grow. A sapling that is trained and protected while growing ends up a much stronger and straighter tree than the one left to blow in the wind and fend for itself against disease, bugs, and the elements. BECAUSE he''s homeschooled, I know *exactly* where his maturity level is. Part of the reason we do homeschool is that we WANT our boys to live in the real world -- one where they interact with people of different ages, stations, professions, and backgrounds. One where they learn from their elders, take joy in that learning, and apply it to their lives. It''s in stark contrast to artificially segregating them by age in an institution that by necessity teaches to the middle, and cannot afford to pursue individual interests. You might try visiting one of the homeschooled troops in your area. Your mother of twins is far from the norm.

>>+ Home schooled youths tend to relate to adults VERY differently than do mass-schooled youths.