johnponz

I am currently the ADC. Prior to that was a UC. That being said, Uniform inspections, and generally the correct wear of the uniform do technically fall under the job description of the commissioner corps. So technically, you could say we are the "uniform police." That is why I am a little taken aback by Basement Dweller's response to the UC. The UC probably thought he was doing his job, the way that he had been trained, and then to be told to leave and not come back for something that he thought was his job seems a little extreme to me. I believe coaching or in an extreme case reassignment by the DC might have been in order. There is proper protocol to follow, and it seems that you practiced "self help." No wonder you do not get cooperation from the district when you treat their volunteers in such a way. That being said, I would tread very lightly when doing any uniform inspections (I have never done one) and can see many more down sides than up sides. I would tell any UC that this should be the last thing on their list of responsibilites to be concerned about. I like my full uniform, but many people do not feel the same way, and judging from these boards, other boards, and real life interactions Scouters are very passionate about the uniform topic and it causes more problems than it is probably worth.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

Bob Wade was National Chief in 1983 I think. He was from Ketchikeniqua Lodge 238. It has since merged and is no more.

Cubmobile races are much more fun than Pinewood Derby races.

I just convinced my employer to send me to WB in lieu of management training this year. Looks like I will get the neckerchief for free. The neckerchief is totally optional though. If you do not want to wear one, don't. The insignia guide is fine with it.

I just wanted to point out that the insignia guide and the congressional charter of BSA prohibits wearing uniform parts that imitate the military uniform so clearly wearing BDUs is out. From the guide: "b.Imitation of United States Army, Navy, or Marine Corps uniforms is prohibited, in accordance with the provisions of the organization's Congressional Charter."

Really, there is no replacement for the official pants. It is a well kept secret, but the National Supply Division will alter the pants for you if you send them your measurements http://www.scoutstuff.org One should never wear military style BDU pants with the Scout uniform.

"But none of those are necessary to "gauge how the bigger organization is doing" or to evaluate the DE's performance." That is your opinion...and that is fine you are entitled to it. However, the committee of volunteers and professionals that put together the JTE requirements apparently disagree as the % of troops earning the Bronze award or above in the district impacts the District's JTE award score so by extrapulation, the committee must have considered the areas that you mention important to District performance. I do not know but I will guess that a component of the DEs bonus is tied to the % of units earning bronze or higher. If that is the case, his performance is being partly judged on the factors you mention. Maybe National is trying to send the message that Unit Service and support is critical to the performance of the DE and the District. That would be a culture change for the positive linked to the JTE which is just one more reason units should participate.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

Without looking at the form, one item is the number of service project a unit completes. I am sure there are others, but I do not have a form handy this second.

Again you misquote or misinterpret what I am saying. To be 100% clear, if you do not want to participate in programs which are designed to enhance the organization as a whole, I believe that you should form your own youth organization where you do not have to deal with such programs. I did not say you should get kicked out or even that the program was mandatory. What I said was that BSA is a large organization that needs all units to participate to know where it stands. Again, I believe that if you do not want to help the organization that you volunteered to be a part of, you should step aside and let someone who wants to help take your place. These are just my own personal opinions, and do not reflect any sort of BSA policy.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

I did not say agree. I said participate...big difference. In this case, the organization needs your units' numbers to gauge how the bigger organization is doing. Why not cooperate...I am not saying that you cannot complain (everyone complains). I am saying that you should cooperate and participate to help the orgnization know where it stands, and where to improve. The numbers mean more if everyone contributes.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

This is one of the reasons there is a degree of friction between volunteers and professionals. Both groups need each other. Who better knows how your unit is doing than you (that is why you need to fill out the metrics). If there is a general problem in a district, that can be identified and reflected in the DE's bonus, but to do that the units' volunteers have to complete the assesments. If only the "bad" units complete the assesments the numbers will be skewed, and the DE will receive an unfairly low bonus. If only "good" units complete the survey, the opposite will happen so it is pretty important that everyone completes them so an overall picture can be had, and so that bonuses reflect reality. Besides that, this program will identify which units have strong programs so that they can potentially help units with not so strong programs. This is also a part of corporate culture called "benchmarking" and "best practices". I know some do not like the fact that BSA mirrors corporate programs to some extent. However, in such a large organization, this is inevetable and is not going to change anytime soon. When you agreed to volunteer in BSA, you also agreed to participate in BSA programs (maybe not explicitly but by association). If you do not like these programs, I would suggest you form your own youth organization that does not include them.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

I do not understand people being upset about people getting bonuses at their jobs. We all like to get bonuses, and let's face it in the professional world, "if it cannot be measured, it does not exsist." I am not against helping my DE get a bonus if he deserves one. I know I look forward to one in my paycheck at my non-scouting job. By the way as with any other job, the numbers are going to get harder to reach each year. It is known as continuous improvement or in Corporate Speak, "raising the bar." Scouting is the profesional Scouter's job, and it is only right that they should get a bonus if they are doing a good job. Today a good job is measured in numbers (at least anywhere that I ever worked).(This message has been edited by johnponz)

Eagle 92, That may have been the best post I have ever read on this forum. I am truly proud to call you a Brother.

I believe that this is another case of unit level volunteers not liking whatever National, Council or district puts out there. Either you buy into the higher levels being there to help you or you do not. If you do not, don't bother with JTE as it will not help you. If you believe that it can help by identifying weaknesses, you need to correct by all means fill it out and use the information to help your unit. You all seem to forget that the Commissioners are volunteers just like you, and would not be doing BSA if not to help units succeed. By the way, I am a Commissioner who visits all 3 of my units at least once a month.

If the Troop Committee can fire the SM, they are his boss. Of course they cannot do this only the COR and IR can do this thus they are his boss. The District Camping Chair may not really have the authority to do anything, but you ignore his advise at your peril as I am sure the Council Scout Executive will stand behind him and he can do something.

Point taken. I was talking about OA ceromonys not AOL. My fault for missing the title of the thread.

Point taken. I was talking about OA ceromonys not AOL. My fault for missing the title of the thread.

Point taken. I was talking about OA ceromonys not AOL. My fault for missing the title of the thread.

My understanding is that the ceromonies have been clreared by rerpresentatives of the Indian tribes. If they have cleared them why do we all have a problem with them. Seems like a bit self rightous to me.

My understanding is that the ceromonies have been clreared by rerpresentatives of the Indian tribes. If they have cleared them why do we all have a problem with them. Seems like a bit self rightous to me.

I am starting to believe that the Scouters on this forum are mainly cynical, and do not like National no matter what they do. First, they cry that Scouting needs to return to its roots and have a better outdoor program. When they start doing this, the cynics yell that it is too expensive. I believe this is exactly where National should be spending their money. If we start giving Scouts something that is hard to find somewhere else (good clean fun combined with a high adventure flavor), we will hook them. We have to provide Scouts with something they cannot get elsewhere, and I believe a new high adventure base to focus that effort is a good first step. Why do you all think that whatever National, Council or District does is not in the best interest of Scouting? For the most part the people at these levels are volunteers who just work at a higher level of Scouting, and are trying to make things better for all of us.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

Whether or not it is an honor does not really matter as the OA is a thing of the spirit. However any adult should feel good to be recoginized as one who will make Order of the Arrow membership more meaningful in the lives of the youth membership. If you are recognized as such isn't that an "honor." Arguing sementics and "bling" is not what the order is about.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

You would hope that the adults would apologize without prodding with regard to their under handed behavior (for some reason Scouting seems to bring that out in adults). However I agree that if they will not apologize there should be some consequences.

A good leadership lesson is in here...sometimes we apologize to make the other person feel better and not necessarily for ourselves. In Scout Law terms this is being courteous, but it is also a lesson in real world leadership. There is nothing wrong with encouraging the Scout to apologize for any hurt feelings that the incident may have caused.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

As I said, I believe the SM nailed this one. I personally have no problem with the apology. It seems like the "courteous" thing to do and builds character (in my opinion)