johnponz

Darn email (message board etc.), it always makes you seem more harsh than intended. LOL

I did not mean offense. It was more of a statement about our current membership policy than personal. If you allow those who do not meet the "ideals" (and believe me I am included here) in some categories such as physically strong why don't you allow those that you believe do not meet the ideals in other categories such as "morally straight." I was using it as an opportunity for all of us to take a look in the mirror and to stop casting stones. If I cast a stone of my own in the process, I am truly sorry (and I mean that). I did not mean to hurt anyone's feelings in the process. Although, we do that every day with our current policy.

I am a District Commissioner and have a 34 inch waist at 6 foot. Still too big but working on it.

Should someone with a 56 inch waist really be in Scouting? This person needs to look at the "physically strong" part of the Scout oath. Isn't this at least as important as "morally straight?"

As usual no one has helped you. The information you are looking for is in this publication [url=http://www.oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/GOA-2012.pdf]http://www.oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/GOA-2012.pdf[/url=http://www.oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/GOA-2012.pdf] This is the guide for OA Officers and advisors. Look at Page 20 (Unit Leader Approval). It states, "To become eligible for election, a Boy Scout or Varsity Scout must be registered with the Boy Scouts of America and have the approval of his Unit Leader prior (bolded in the original) to the election. The Unit Leader must certify his Scout spirit (i.e., hius adherance to the Scout Oath and Law and active participation in unit activities). The Unit Leader must also certify that the nominee meets all specified requirements at the time of this annual election. It is important to note that unlike advancement criteria there is no appeal process for this certification so what the Unit Leader decides goes, and you can tell the parents to pound sand if they do not agree, or better yet refer them to the CC as it is not the SMs job to deal with the parents. That being said further reference is made on page 22 #4 "...who meet all eligibility requirements including attitude and participation..." I believe BSA chose the word "attitude" carefully and the Unit leader has a lot of leeway as to who has the right attitude for OA and who does not. Again, ther eis no appeal process. This is definitely an area where the good Unit Leader needs a spine and needes to stand up to the parents. BSA and the OA give the Unit leader a lot of discretion in this area, and it is up to the Unit leader to maintain the integrity of the OA. If not you, who?

Wood Badge was a great course to enhance management skills. I have been to many other courses like this as I work in Corporate HR in the real world. The fact is many people are not exposed to these kinds of issues and we still expect them to manage Scout units. Like it or not Scouts is pretty much run as a corporation these days and if you are going to succeed in that environment you need to know the rules. The ticket is a little hard to complete with everything else going on in life but that is part of the lesson. One has to stay on track and focused to finish it. I agree with Basement that Scouting should offer another type of course to emphasize camping skills and teaching those skills. The current Wood Badge does not do that. As far as the Game of Life, there is a lesson to be learned. We are in this together and should try to win for everyone instead of for ourselves. It is true that the delivery is important, and a skilled staff helps get the message out. The staff at my course did excellent in this regard. Finally, I will get my beads next Tuesday. All in all I am a better Scouter for the experience. I used to be a Beaver...

Troop STANDARDS should have nothing to do with it as Eagle is a NATIONAl award. If a Scout met the requirements that is all that is needed to be awarded Eagle.

A case of someone asking for advice, and then not liking the answers. How about this...You are doing GREAT Bluejacket. Keep up the good work. This is definitely the right path to go down. The Unit's leadership and you will get along just fine as long as you keep fanning the fires of conflict.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

double post.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

BSA 24 is one guy I do not understand. He says that he does not wear knots on his uniform but wants to be able to earn/wear rank badges. His positions seem just strange to me.

I have to agree with Beavah here. Any Commissioner's #1 job is to be friends of the Unit, and that means the unit's leadership. Scouting is not about individuals making individual choices to attend events. It is about units choosing what their program will be and attending those events as a unit. When a Unit Leader asks a Commissioner to back off, said Commissioner should back off, and then work diligently on reestablishing the relationship. Be the unit and Unit Leader's friend, do not be an enemy. You need that Unit Leader's help especially during recharter. As an ADC I have 4 units that I support directly because the district does not have enough UCs and the DC supports several units as well. That may be what's going on here, but not for sure.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

I am back from weekend 1 as well. The course is very good. I have seen a lot of the material before in management training courses, but it is nice to see it presented with a Scouting flare. They do pack your day though. I am pretty exhausted and have lots of homework.

The leadership is probably doing what the chartered organizations with the most authority want them to do. These COs are LDS, and the Catholic Church among other religious groups. This policy provides cover for the COs. They do not have to exclude gays as the "local option" would allow. Instead they can point to a National Policy. This is part of what a National organization does. It provides cover for those on the ground. These organizations have a lot of power within BSA. Indeed more than the volunteers and that is the reason the Executive Board will not overturn the policy. They are reflecting the wishes of the COs. You could try to change the mind of the COs, but that will not happen because their stance is faith based, and any attempt to change it based on reason (this is not saying that faith based groups are not reasonable. It is only saying that secular arguments based on reason will not change their minds) will not work. As long as the majority of COs (by majority I mean each unit's individual CO), believe that gays should be prohibited by policy they will be.

The leadership is probably doing what the chartered organizations with the most authority want them to do. These COs are LDS, and the Catholic Church among other religious groups. This policy provides cover for the COs. They do not have to exclude gays as the "local option" would allow. Instead they can point to a National Policy. This is part of what a National organization does. It provides cover for those on the ground. These organizations have a lot of power within BSA. Indeed more than the volunteers and that is the reason the Executive Board will not overturn the policy. They are reflecting the wishes of the COs. You could try to change the mind of the COs, but that will not happen because their stance is faith based, and any attempt to change it based on reason (this is not saying that faith based groups are not reasonable. It is only saying that secular arguments based on reason will not change their minds) will not work. As long as the majority of COs (by majority I mean each unit's individual CO), believe that gays should be prohibited by policy they will be.

Beav, You are 100% correct (I would say 110% but that really is not possible-LOL). There is no excuse to stand by and let a fellow human being die if you can possibly help the person. No rule should supercede this one. Everyone has to be able to live with their decsions so ultimately this is a personal decsion, but if my son is the human that is in this much trouble, I hope and pray the person helps.(This message has been edited by johnponz)