johndaigler

Have Tiger Day in a local park. Use older Cubs to help with activities - They all have Achievements based on helping new and younger Cubs. The wolves have to design a treasure hunt, an obstacle course and an adventure trail - the Bears have to lead a Den activity, etc. Use the above ideas to get the word out and the Park Day to seal the deal and collect the paperwork. Nothing sells Cubs better than Cubs doing Cubby things!!!! Good Luck!! jd

Welcome, Jersey Fox!! What part of NJ? I spent three years on the western edge of Hunterdon County - west of Clinton. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful -- if it weren't for work, I'd be there still!! jd I miss Jersey - but I don't miss my wife working for Merck!! Yikes!!

SirjimmyG, As much as I liked your first post (and your second;)), I liked the third one better. Your humility and common sense shine. Thanks for setting an example that reminds me that I can do better with my posts. You've already received tons of good advice - go with it. Additionally, you might put together a quick survey that district or council can help you distribute to neighboring Units. Don't reinvent wheels that are sitting just down the road. What do other Troops do? Where do other troops go? You might also make some useful connections so that your smallish group can pair up with another Unit for events. Take advantage of the specialness of your area. New England abounds with options - winter, mountains, history, the Ocean, nearness to Canada, downhill skiing, history, fishing, fall foliage, the Berkshires, the Whites, the Greens, ice fishing, . . . did I mention history? . . . Salem, Plymouth, Mystic, Boston. You'll run out of paper before you run out of ideas! Remember what Acco said and that your game should have a purpose, plan fun activities that serve a purpose. And don't forget to give a little back with service projects that aid your community, CO and neighboring units - particularly the Cubs! Enjoy!! jd

Respectfully, I think a good first step would be to realize that the "sails and anchors" metaphor is really no better than the "sinking cruise ship" metaphor. We're dealing with people here, so the black/white approach isn't very effective or appropriate. All these Scouters and potential volunteers have useful skills and energies, the trick is to get people fitted into the right roles. Someone who weighs down your fundraising efforts, may carry the load as an Advancement Chair. Someone who has terrible interpersonal skills may have great Outdoors skills. Someone who doesn't see the value in the uniform, may have great number crunching skills and be useful as a Unit Treasurer. Everyone is trainable. Sure, not everyone wants to get training; or having taken it, judges it as a worthwhile experience, but they wouldn't be involved in Scouting at all unless they wanted to do some good for the boys. Rather than judging potential leaders as "fit/unfit", I think your Unit would benefit the most if you found ways to help volunteers be the positive force they desire. If you can help them see their potential for usefulness, it will be easier to help them see how training and following the program will help them be even more useful and efficient with their efforts. There are training classes to help you improve as a recruiter of adults, and some written BSA stuff, as well. Check them out. When you're actually doing the people part - spend more time listening than judging. People will tell you what they want out of their efforts - try to figure where in your Unit organization that individual will be most useful and happy. Build on their strengths and over time help round them out with training and alternative/additional responsibilities and experiences. Good Luck, jd

LyndaJ, That is a frightening story. I hope those parents know decent lawyers - here's one instance where I'd approve of a lawsuit (or two)!! It's sad and surprising that many parents would fall into that type of trap. I think today it would be much different than 6 years ago, but still the problem exists -- Too many kids on too much medication. Teachers should be the last ones to suggest meds. There are many, many steps that public schools should be efforting before anyone brings up the possibility of medicating students. Private schools work with different rules, but still, behvior mod meds are the absolute last choice in helping kids succeed in school, or anywhere else. very scary. jd

Capella, welcome!! There are several good resources for starting up new Units. You didn't ask for that kind of information, instead you listed fairly specific questions - but if you haven't read the available info, don't hesitate to ask for those resource names, as well. I wish you well, though I won't try to offer too much help. I'm a Cub Scouter, and your questions are better answered by Boy Scouters, particularly those knowledgable about LDS Scouting. Good Luck, jd

Dan, You seem to have kept quite a bit bundled up inside. I'm sorry you're angry. I think your words might be more effective, though, if you addressed individual posts when they appear. Your generalizations are unclear, and unfair -- as if you think that if you throw enough angst out at one time it will prove your point AND righteously condemn those posters that trouble you. If you have a problem with the posts of any of the forum members you mentioned, or me, or anyone else, please, speak up in the thread where those posts are found. Sure, sometimes forum members disagree with each other, or with National -- and sometimes that leads to a bit of heated give and take. I think you're being unfair to paint "most posters" with your broad brush of bile. Even the Scouters here who "get my goat", are here because they're dedicated to making BSA a better organization, and program, for today's American boys. They make me crazy, but they don't deserve the kind of junk you threw out in this post. Why don't you start a thread about one of the ideas that troubles you and create a conversation in which you can share your thoughts on the topic. I'm sure you'll get a variety of responses and you'll be able to specifically argue against the ones with which you disagree. KISMIF jd

Welcome, AHG Mom, And thank you Dan for stepping up to protect AHG mom - though given her response to Trevorum's interestingly challenging query, she seems able to fend for herself. Dan, I appreciate that you offered yourself up as an example of inappropriately focusing on people rather than the words of a post. IMHO, generically badmouthing other posters is exactly what you've warned AHG mom to be afraid of. Let me suggest that you and I set a better example by demonstrating how to dispute words rather than impune people. jd

PNW, BW's answer comes straight from the Scoutmaster's Handbook AND G2SS. Your liability would stem from stepping outside of that written parameter. Parents don't have the right to prescribe prescription drugs, nor do the minors in your care. Do what the doctor says or stay out of the situation. Ensure that the Scout does what the doctor says or stay out of the situation. Again liability arises if you make the choice to act, or allow the Scout to act, outside the doctor's legal authority to prescribe certain drugs. Again, I'd suggest helping by monitoring and describing the boy's physical behavior when he is Scouting. Try to avoid the whole administering medication issue. BTW, doesn't your Camp have SOPs concerning all of this? You'd probably have additional issues if you were to make choices that undermined the rules of the camp and role of the camp staff. jd

PNW, To determine how long any of these drugs stay in the boy's system (with any accuracy), the doctor would need to know the drug, the dose, the boy's weight, the length of time the boy has been using this and/or other drugs, and a couple of other factors. Usually, dose decisions (size and time of delivery) are based on a the boys "usual day" - the school day, typically. But, often changes are made for summer because of the boy's schedule changes. Often, activities like Scouting fall outside that usual day and aren't prioritized (most often not even considered, at first) in the timing and dose determination. Though, you should remain non-judgemental, I think you would do your Scout a favor by offering to help the parents with gathering information about the Scout's behavior while he is with you and your Unit. There are standard forms for your comments and observations. If you can offer this with the understanding of how complicated it is for parents to agree to prescriptions for behavior altering drugs for their children, I'm sure the parents will see your honest concern and legitimate offer of help. BW's right about conflicts between the doctor's prescribed dose and the parent's suggested dose. You'd be off base doing something other than the Dr's orders. Get the parent to straighten that out - you should not be stuck in that position. BTW, when camping with the boys, don't forget the buddy system! Good Luck, jd

1. Do children do better at packs attached to their schools? I don't know if anyone has factual information to answer that one way or another, but speaking strictly from personal experience -- Boys do better when they are with friends. Sometimes that means making new friends through fun, exciting (Cub Scouting) adventures. Sometimes that means doing anything at all (math homework) as long as it's with a comfortable base group of others - others who may be friends for reasons outside of scouting. BTW, kids do BEST when they have friends AND their parents are actively involved in positive ways -- but I'm guessing you're already thinking along those lines. 2. What are some ways to handle leaders that dont seem to have their mind and heart in the Cub Scout place? If you take a position of power and you're interested in dramatic confrontation, you can publicly duke it out. Messy and no one looks good at the end. If you got more patience, try doing the right thing with whatever position you have. Sounds like there's a CM job open. Be as patient as you can and work toward bringing in more volunteer leaders who are interested in doing the job well and along the lines of the intended program. Set the standard, be the example. 3. Am I being to sensitive, and should learn to deal with these people, because they will continue to occur in scouting? IMHO, you're not too sensitive, but dealing with people is often frustrating. People who annoy you will pop up everywhere in Scouting. There are people who know too little, people who know too much, people who talk too much, people who won't talk up when they should, people who are too sensitive, people who aren't sensitive enough, etc. I think Scouting is the best possible activity for boys and their families. But we all see Scouting a bit differently, so patience, understanding, and the ability to walk in other's moccasins will help you be as successful as you want to be. GOOD LUCK. jd oh, BTW, I deleted the other two times your original post appeared - just for simplicity's sake. It would get confusing if you get 3 answers in three different places. (This message has been edited by johndaigler)

Thanks, Fred. I'd love to see stuff like this for the Cubs if and when anyone bumps into it. jd

Best I can do is narrow the list of suspects. It was definitely NOT a Cub Scouter! jd

AWOL?? My apologies for not being around for 24 hours - didn't know I was expected - didn't know I needed permission. I don't understand why asking questions is seen as insulting or rude. Again, asking the question doesn't imply my feelings - unless you read too much into it. We live in a society where knowledge and the pursuit of it, is highly prized - unless, it seems, that new knowledge challenges our old comfortable ways of thinking and living. It amazes me that Scouters would be aggressive with other Scouters (here, and in other threads) for trying to find answers to questions. UZ, you're off base here. Your posts seem to be putting words into my mouth and thoughts into my head. I can sense your angst and frustration, but why in the world are you aiming it at me? Most of your assumptions about my thoughts, feelings, and knowledge are incorrect. The entire thrust of my post was that Fred had posted several articles without giving us his thoughts or ideas. I didn't (don't)understand if he was saying the articles were good, bad, true, dishonest, insulting . . . The point I was trying to make was that random internet bloggers hold no value for me, whereas Fred does. jd

uz, I think you've read my questions and made some assumptions that are far from true. No where in my post did I mention what I believe. I was asking Fred what he believed. jd

Dear Bob White, I asked for help for others and this is what you offer? "BW, just what exactly should a trained Scouter who knows, and is successful at, his/her role but has concerns about policy, National's organizational structure and decision-making do? "The question assumes that such a scouter would have those concerns, and that is seldom the case. Why would a scouter who is successful at their position be worrying about the structure at national? Why would a successful scouter need to worry about national policy?" The arrogance of your words is frightening. Again, I wish you were able to offer help rather than villification of Scouters seeking information. "Bob -- can you educate the ignorant masses No I can't. In fact I doubt anyone can, after all isn't that what makes them ignorant masses? It is not lack of information that makes them ignorant, for information is readily available. It is their inability to learn, or their choice to not seek the information that keeps them ignorant. Truly, truly ARROGANT. Lots of us are capable of educating people who want to learn about Scouting and who ask questions seeking answers. But those who lack the will to learn but choose to gossip and conjure up their own false scenarios of what they "think" is the truth are doomed to wallow in their own self-imposed ignorance. Wouldn't it be kinder to actually answer the questions and just help teach us ignorant, cowardly, lazy, gossipers? Over tha past few years I and others have given factual information only to have it rejected because the readers ignorance was more comfortable than the truth. Their ignorance allows them to continue to use others as a scapegoat for their own problems. Again, you're insulting and offer nothing. Just help. PLEASE just point people in a useful direction. Reread your post - There is not one single offering of assistance, or teaching, or guidance, or modeling of scoutlike behavior. Can I tell you the top ten responsibilities. Probably not. Gee, I'm sure surprised! TJ, "New Leader Essentials" curricula says: Scouting is a volunteer-run movement, but Scouting also has well-trained professionals who coach and support the volunteers in their efforts. In addition to providing unit leadership, volunteers staff district committees, council boards, and even the national board of directors of the BSA. Volunteers and professionals work as a team to serve the packs, troops and crews in our council and district AND Encourage participants to suggest answers to the question, "What does the BSA's National Council provide?" With financial support from youth and adult registration fees, magazine advertising, and uniform and equipment sales, the National council: * Supports local councils. * Conducts program research and development. * Develops literature and materials. * Provides professional training. * Operates national high-adventure and training facilities. * Conducts national events such as jamborees. "CS Leader Specific" training does not mention National. "Training the Chartered Organization Representative" Training curricula says: [showing a graphic with the National Organization as a base-brick in a pyramid with the Boy at the peak of the pyramid.] The national organization consists of four regions, 33 areas, and the national office in Irving, Texas. The national office develops program, policy training, literature, and videos, and maintains standards for the organization. There is a national volunteer board that oversees the National COuncil. AND One of the roles of the national organization of the Boy Scouts is to grant charters to use the Scouting program. {A discussion of charters continues occasionally mentioning the phrase 'national organization'} AND Beyond training offered on the local council level, the BSA offers training on a national level. Philmont Training Center in New Mexico provides "mountaintop" training experiences. Volunteers are exposed to national vounteers and staff. "YPT" does not concern itself with the national organization and I won't bother to go back and check Fast Start, because even if it's mentioned, it could only be in a most cursory manner. Sorry I couldn't come up with anything else from the basic training classes. jd My apologies to those of you who find this falling into the rant category. More apologies to the moderator team - this needed some moderation, but I couldn't find any. (This message has been edited by johndaigler)(This message has been edited by johndaigler)(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

From the above cited website: The National Anxiety Center was founded in 1990 by Alan Caruba, a veteran business and science writer, as well as Public Relations Counselor. The original purpose was to debunk the many claims made by environmental and consumer organizations that were engaged in deliberately false, media-driven scare campaigns. It was apparent that decades of having been told the Earth was doomed due to global warming or an Ice Age, that the nations forests were disappearing, that there was no place to put the garbage, that virtually every species was endangered, that drilling for oil or natural gas, or mining coal and other minerals was a danger, an entire generation of Americans had fallen prey to these lies. Please, Fred, I'm beggin ya - stop the madness!!! I'm getting all anxious!!! We shouldn't be worried about whales, the Ozone, global warming, gender-based inequalities, or fossil fuels; but God help us, the nation will come tumbling if the BSA ever changes!?!?! Anyone who is interested can find these blogs all over the internet. Thank you, but I don't need you to find them for me. What I would be interested in is your thoughts! Do YOU think we should prioritize traditional male traits over traditional female traits? Do YOU think we should de-feminize Scouting? Do YOU think Hanz Zeiger has written a useful book? Do YOU think we should focus on the issues surrounding,"One can hardly think what our society would be like without the men who become its soldiers, sailors, airmen, policemen, firemen, and others who stand ready to sacrifice themselves for others." Or do YOU think it would be OK to help boys grow up to be men who value other profesions as well? Perhaps we could still value boys who grow up to be men who are teachers, painters, dancers, stay-at-home-parents, . . . ?? jd (This message has been edited by johndaigler)

Should I be overly worried that I understand FB better than BW????????? jk, one word - "fewer". PrairieScouter, agreed BW, just what exactly should a trained Scouter who knows, and is successful at, his/her role but has concerns about policy, National's organizational structure and decision-making do? Please don't call them whiners, or gripers, or worse yet "loud mouth drunks" (yeah, I know, that wasn't yours...). My point is that there is more than just one frustrated Scouter out there. Rather than telling them to "shut up and go away", what can we offer? jd BTW, isn't the whole "sinking ship" thing a metaphor - not an Analogy???(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

IMHO, Eddie H. does more harm than good. jd TCV, Nathan Tabor's website??? I'm guessing you think, "Dr. Jerry Falwell dubbed him the "young Jesse Helms.", is a GOOD thing????!!!!???? We're apparently on different sides of the isle . . . if not the planet! (This message has been edited by johndaigler)

There's a huge chunk of me that would like to go back and edit (erase) most of what's found on the last three pages. But, I think I'd rather be on time for my root canal! Perhaps we could use less diatribe and more dialogue. jkhny - Your angst is obvious, but we've read it in several threads now. Whether agreeing or disagreeing, you're preaching to choirs. You'll help yourself, and your readers (most of whom don't reply), by shortening your work to novellas - Perhaps Eamonn can help. Make a point or two, and then chill while you wait for replies. KISMIF! BW - I'm not going to go back and edit, yours or his; neither of you should be strutting around puffy-chested at the moment. I'm going to close the thread - Everyone's free to continue it elsewhere. Perhaps a fresh start will bring us closer to a Scoutlike discussion. Yours, in moderation!! jd Can't ya just hear the "Kumbayah" gently in the background???

There is a new edition of the Cub Scout Leader Book available at your local Scout Store or through Scoutstuff.org. I doubt the descriptions have changed from the website version that scoutldr shared with you. Good Luck jd

This thread is being closed only because the conversation is being held in another thread, as well. Please see "Job Description of the Committee Chair" in order to reply and participate. Thanks. jd

Welcome back!! Sounds like a great summer -- hope it was as much fun as it should have been -- and that it was less burden on your home life than it probably was!! National Camping School?? Tell us more!?!?! jd

Like it not, he kinda knocked that one out of the park! jd

Let's hope (assume) that court cases aren't decided based on the laws of simple probability of random outcomes.