JoeBob

There is a good number of non-LDS members here that would like to come with you. That our core beliefs have been devalued frustrates us. This topic has been a useful vent. Thanks.

I heard that. As SM, I endorsed NYLT techniques; but I was hoping that the scouts could convince their peers where I had failed. Boy led, and all that. One or two lazy patrol members can mess up a lot of good intentions.

Lied to the committee? I'd ignore all the misdirection about who should and should not talk to the candidate. He didn't shade the truth to his best buddy about kissing a girl. He lied. About advancement. To the committee. For safety, he has to re-start the project to approved specs. But to escape further consequence for lying? I thought he was up for the highest honor in scouting...

The boys in my troop who came back from NYLT all fired up and educated, quickly learned how hard it is to translate patrol methods that work with elite motivated members into the average every day sorta patrol. They gave up after about 6 months...

A flexible moral code? That's not a code. That's a wish-list for being undisciplined.

Taurus Excretus. BSA had a moral code to be envied; until '"acting like a Boy Scout" became a pejorative. And some used that latitude to the extreme. "My moral code is to have no morals, but since that's my moral code; I can be an Eagle scout!" And BSA allowed it. The basic strength of a good morale code is that it doesn't change. Through good times and bad, whether popular or unpopular, these are my morals. Some things I will always do. Some things I will never do. You get strength and affirmation from others who have the same code that you do. BSA hasn't changed their fundamentals? You're right; BSA completely abandoned their fundamentals.

Cut out the liner. Position the flash vertically over your left eye. Pull everything else down flat to your buzz cut so that there is a bit of overlap covering your right ear. At least that's how Rangers wore the black beret, back when it still meant something. (Shinseki can apply oral vacuum to my gluteus maximus.)

I did not say that ALL progressives hate BSA. But since all the activist groups attacking BSA were progressives, I can understand why you're being sensitive. Multiple forum threads, Meritbadge Schools, and Eagle Mill troops prove that the rank of Eagle is no longer held in the same esteem. I know of one LIfe scout who used as an excuse to not finish Eagle that he did NOT WANT EAGLE on his college application because it would hurt his chances to get into a liberal arts school. (I'm sure there were other reasons, but I'd never heard that one.) Wasn't Trail Life a BSA defection based on religion? LDS, the Mormon Church, left because of differences in the implementation God's will for his people, His Scouts. Haven't there been EBORs where a candidate was passed using a belief in self or pantheism? With SOME progessive groups trying to take God off of our currency, Irving can't be far behind. I'm glad that you like the BSA the way it is today. You'd have loved it back in the day. Thank you for the courtesy of your reply.

Hey @FireStone , is there a reason that you disagree with my last 2 posts on the LDS withdrawal? It's entirely within your rights to downvote from the shadows, but would you mind sharing your rationale? Thank you.

1- Stop driving their existing membership away with ridiculous changes to their core principles in order to be 'liked' by a fickle politically correct group of progressives who HATE what the BSA stood for. 2- Do what they say that they are going to do, and stop changing their 'written in stone' positions every six months. 3- Reduce the redundant CYA paperwork and useless training that drives away seasoned volunteers. 4- Push a program that goes back into the woods. BSA needs to compete against digital and social attractions, not try to emulate them. The outdoors and nature were a solid attraction that boys could find only in scouting. The wilderness is still there, waiting.

Gentlemen, There is not much left in Irving of Scouting's core values. We've sacrificed the quality of Eagle, which used to be the standard for Excellence. We've given up on God, who sacrificed his son for us. We've told the boys that they shouldn't strive to be good strong men of high moral caliber; they should be co-operative facilitators who will avoid embarrassing others by being better. (Game of Life - Would badger?) We can't cut green trees to build towers and bridges. Leave no trace so that 4,000 others scouts can tread this sidewalk and imagine that they're first. Boys will never again be allowed to run around half-nekkid in loin cloths just having fun in the Order of the Arrow. Cultural appropriation is so gauche, don't you know? And there are surely perverts hiding in the trees. We've given up on the boys. Small groups, patrols, where they were encouraged to blow it all out; to learn their limits and strengths. Boys, you're not special. Anybody can play this game, and you MUST let anybody play with you. Sorry if you don't gain as much confidence and self-knowledge as before. Just think of how your loss will profit other groups... I respect the departure of LDS and Trail Life earlier. I wish them well with their youth. I mourn the degradation of BSA.

At the risk of revealing myself as a not entirely serious person, and to add some levity to the debate: boys have a distinct advantage when it comes to writing their names in the snow... Sorry. It just popped into my warped mind.

If you view the name change as a side effect of Leftist vs. Conservative, then you probably think that testosterone is a poison and masculinity is toxic like these folks at Brown do: Masculinity101- a weekly discussion group for students to unpack and unlearn toxic masculine norms https://www.brown.edu/campus-life/health/services/promotion/general-health-social-wellbeing-sexual-assault-dating-violence-get-involved-prevention/unlearning Gender Fluid Scouts of America , coming soon to a willing CO near you. Are girls coming to BSA to learn skills, attitudes and life lessons found in the outdoors? I welcome that. Or are girls being lured into Scouts BSA to increase enrollment numbers for the pensions in Irving? The silly name change designed to be more welcoming for girls, suggests to me that BSA is changing for girls, not the other way around. Yet another small betrayal from national. The water temperature got to hot for this frog. I hopped out.

Here's a nice summary of how we got here: https://www.toddstarnes.com/show/boy-scouts-announce-plans-to-drop-the-word-boy/ "The Boy Scouts used to be in the business of teaching boys how to become young men — to keep themselves physically strong and morally straight. But somewhere along the way – Boy Scout leaders lost their moral compass and tumbled into the deep abyss of political correctness. I don’t think there’s a merit badge for that."

The stinkiest night that I've ever spent anywhere was in the Harvard mountaineering cabin at the base of Mt. Washington. Three of us drove up from Georgia to do some real ice climbing and got thwarted by an early warm front. We were hiking up trails that were mush and ran into the climbers from the previous week coming down. There were about twenty unwashed bodies laying on top of sleeping bags emanating a ten day fragrance crammed into a tiny cabin. It literally smelled so bad that you couldn't sleep, but outside was 3 to 5 feet of melting snow, so there was nowhere to go...

The easiest way to avoid OA election drama is to not have OA elections. From a Scoutmaster's point of view, renaming free council labor as an 'Honor Camping Society' doesn't justify potentially driving away quiet scouts who have been active enough to be eligible. There is no upside for the troop. Ini-To. 1969

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/02/25/how-to-turn-boys-into-honorable-men-these-six-steps-are-start.html ”Welcome to the lost boy generation. Only a few have shot up schools, but too many are failing out of them.” 1 - Help Them Choose and Chase an Ideal 2. Don’t Save Them from Fear 3. Be a Good Guide 4. Let Them Run the Gauntlet 5. Introduce a Code 6. Let Them Go Anything there sound familiar to y'all?

Eh, testing?

Silly YP police wonder why reasonable adult volunteers are hard to keep.

Alas, poor GBB! I knew him,Stosh -- a fellow of infinite leadership, of most excellent woodskills He hath bore a pack on his back a thousand times, and now how adored in my imagination it is! My reverence rises at it. Here taught those skills that I have practiced I know now how oft. Where be your gibes now, your gambols, your songs, your flashes of merriment that were wont to set Irving on a roar? Not one now to mock your own grinning? Quite membership-fallen?

"This above all - to the Scoutmasters' Handbook be true (circa 1968); And it must follow, as the night the day; Thou canst not then be false to any boy.”

I bet that Al Gore could make another few million this week if he could actually produce some of the predictions made by 'An Inconvenient Truth'. "Snow will cease to exist.” Uh huh.

Normally, I'd demure and support LNT; but I'm basing my comments on the July 21st 2016 Blowdown: http://bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=forum.thread&threadId=955746&forumID=16&confID=1 The crews are still working to clear sites. The less used portages are passable, but close. Trees are down everywhere. Look at the far shore in the photo. That's a lot of standing dead timber. This storm affected only 25% of the area that the 1999 Blowdown flattened, but it was still scary: http://www.sctimes.com/story/news/local/2016/06/24/area-man-survives-violent-bwca-storm/86333972/ If you want some real wood to cut, something that BSA doesn't have much of these days, the BWCA is for you. Please be careful and train your boys in woods skills and first aid. The writer assumes no responsibility for missing fingers or hacked off feet.

When you have mixed genders (female Venturers and Boy Scouts in my case), YPT can be interpreted to require 2 Adult Females and 2 Adult Males. BWCA rules cap the maximum party size at 9, so you have 4 adults and 5 youth. That ratio is a little steep in my opinion. My trip was obviously not an official Scout trip. We went as private civilians with one adult male and one adult female.

Two more over the limit: I forgot about the joy of having NO cellphone signal and no recharging opportunities. The kids had to talk to each other and games in the tent at night weren't a factor. Your GPS on your phone still works fine; those satellites are still up there. I saved a Google Maps image on my phone for use offline that I had pre-marked with all of our campsite possibilities. It helped us not waste time searching the shoreline for legit campsites. I took 3 phone batteries, but only used 50% of one over a 7 day trip in airplane mode. It's amazing how little power you use when there's no network to ping.