JM_Ecuador

There seem to be some strange things going on. Have you ever heard of a scout sleeping in while camping? Most leaders I know wouldn't allow it, and most boys are eager to be enjoying their adventure. Second, Youth Protection policies were broken. Third, the article called him a 1st Class. A first class scout knows how to hike safely, has camped overnight at least three times, can to navigate by compass, knows how to pitch a tent, can use a knife, saw, and axe, can make a fire, and knows how to cook on one. He has made a first aid kit for hiking and knows first aid for scrapes, blisters, minor burns, snakebite, insect bites, sunburn, frostbite, an object in their eye, a bite of a potentially rabid animal, a puncture wound such as a splinter, nail, or hook, heat exhaustion, shock, heatstroke, dehydration, hypothermia, and hyperventillation and also how to transport himself with a broken anke. He's familiar with plants native to his area. He also knows how to use knots and lashings to make structures and knows how to swim. This kid should be able to take care of himself. Why would he be just wandering off?

I believe that Eamonn has made a very good point. Whatever the uniform is, we must use it. The answer for dealing with something on which we disagree is not to disregard the rules, rather to encourage those who make them to change the rules. That is, rather than decide what we want to be the uniform, and ignore the national standard, we should use the unifrom, but also let people who have the power to make a diference know our feelings on the matter. However, I also think that for non-formal events, such as regular meetings, campouts, etc, the rules should be a bit flexible. My standard would be that the participants be wearing a necker, but then I hear that that's the least popular item in the US. YIS JMM

Diferent uniforms for diferent sections? sounds interesting. Here Cubs wear diferent hats, Rovers wear red shoulder straps, and Scouters have blue shirts, that's all the diference there is. That and patches. YIS JM

WOW, that's alot of uniforms. I Ecuador everyone uses the same uniform except for Scouters. Also, within a group, all packs, troops, and crews will use the same necker. That means that all a kid has to change on his uniform are patches until he outgrows/wears it out. Also, things in Ecuador tend ot run cheaper. We charge US$40 for: Shirt, slide, Necker, hat, t shirt, and group patch. If neckers are too expensive, make your own. Tuk head knots look very stylish, especially if made from a natural looking fiber. YIS JM

To start, I will outline the organization of the Associacion de Scouts del Ecuador. Scouts form groupsm which consist of one or more packs (6-10 years old), and one or more troops (11-15), and maybe a Rover crew(16+). All these units are under the leadership of a Chief of Group. Under him are the Scoutmasters, Cubmasters, and Rover Scout Leaders. Then come the assistant leaders. The assistant leaders will usually be assigned to a specific unit, but may be pulled to help with another if something comes up. There is also the Parents Committee. The Parents Committee consists of all the parents of children who are members of the group. They choose a President and a Treasurer. The President represents the parents in the Group Council, and the Treasurer handles all the money for the group. The group is goverened by the Group Council, which consists of 2 scouters per unit, the Chief, the President of the Parents Committee, the Treasurer, and a representative from the Host. The Host is whoever gives the group a place to meet. In my groups case it is a private high school. Every province is a District, if it has at least 3 groups. The District Commissioner serves as a liason between the National Office and the groups, and as a coordinator for events that will include more than one group. The Association is run by the National Team, which is chosen by the National Assembly. The National Assembly consists of one representative for every registered group. They vote on policy, regulation, and choose the Cheif Scout, who chairs the National Team. I hope this makes sense. Let me know if you need clarification. Methods, Aims, etc: Because Ecuador is a small country, smaller than most US states, we have not developed our own rescources, rather we use the materials developed by the Interamerican Region. We call our program a "non formal method of education for young people". Much of what is here I have translated from the Interamerican Scoutmaster Handbook. (Guia Para Dirigientes del al Rama Scout) I believe that the name in English is Scout Leader Handbook, or something like that. It is available from the WOSM store. This method is based on a Symbolic Frame. The symbolic frame is what forms a basis for all scouts do. It consisists of Symbols, The Joy Of Exploring, Having a Territory, and Belonging to a Group of Friends. SYMBOLS A Symbol is an image or a figure that has a characteristic which permits it to represent a reality or a concept. This includes the crests, uniform, flags, and other items. JOY OF EXPLORING The Joy Of Exloring is the factor of doing new and exiting things as a group. The wonder of adventure is key. Finding paths, forgottten roads, climbing to the top of a mountain, rafting down a river, sleeping under the stars, cooking your own meals, finding your own shelter and warmth, are all activities through which the body explores the world, and through them one discovers his own abilities, strengths, and will gain self-confidence. Exploring also tests one's mental capacity, and teaches a person to inovate. For that reason the word Investigate can often be used as a synonim of Explore. This is a wonderful opurtunity for young people, with their emerging abilities to abstract, deduce, question and generalize! In exploring there will be conflicts and problems, and so explorers must learn how so solve them. Through this a young person will gain a new perspective on life, and will see everuthing with greater understanding. This exploring should become permament. Not only shoudl one learn new things, but a person should also share what they have learned. GAINING A TERRITORY Exploring is intricately linked with Gaining New Territory. This can be seen in the explorers of old, they explored and gained new territory. No, almost the whole planet has been explored, so the adventure is not in being the first, but in learning something more about it and understanding our world better. Today as we explore, we should 'claim' new territory by leaving a mark on it. That is, it should be in better condition than when we found it. Every young person also has the adventure of growing, through which they will reach new points in their ives. Through exploring a young person will learn about themselves and grow and mature. MORE TO FOLLOW...... YIS JM

This thread is to compare the BSA with the ASE. BSA is the US program, and ASE Ecuadorian. I will post another message soon summing up the ASE program. YIS JMM

" Do the Scouts of Ecuador have anything like the BSA AIMS and Methods? " Yes, it's called the 'metodo educativo' which consists of learning by doing, youth leadership, and values. All this is delivered within the 'marco simbolico' wich consists of the traditions, law, uniform, promise, etc. If you like, we could spin off another thread in which to discuss the diferences between the programs. YIS JM

" Not sure if know this or not, but in the BSA a hat or bandanna/neckerchief is not required piece of the uniform. They are considered an optional part of the uniform. " I did not know that, but then I have never been a member of the BSA. That's funny though, because in Ecuador (and much of the world from what I have heard) the necker is the most basic part of the uniform. Nobody ever does ANY Scouting events without it on.

" Your skater kids are going to show up in pants 6 inches too long with legs so large that shoes can't even be seen. Your goth kids are going to wear nothing but black jeans. " So, you say that they have to wear clothes that fit. Black isn't allowed because it's BLUE jeans. And it doesn't have to be blue jeans. It could be olive green pants, or or black, or whatever the national assembly were to decide. The important part is that it is 1) locally available and 2) reasonably priced. What makes it a Scout uniform are 1) color, 2) style, and 3) insignia & necker. Without the third, it can't be considered a Scout uniform, no matter if it is regulation. A person wearing non regulation shirt and pants would be recongized as Scout if it had the patches and a bandana. YIS JM

" Still we had the entire troop in full uniform. Not because of any hard and fast rule or rules but it was a matter of Troop and Patrol pride. " Just because something can be done doesn't mean that it's the best thing. It would have been easier on those families had the uniform been cheaper. As to it beeing 'cool,' that is the reason I mentioned all the other organizations which used a similar uniform. That basic style is not a thing of the past, and cops don't look dorky, do they? Thank you Hunt, you're thinking along the same lines as me. I have seen this work in Ecuador. The official pants are jeans, but most groups have standards such as: must be clean, nea, not ragged, etc. This is necesarry, especially today when, for some odd reason, dirty pants are 'cool'. As for the uniform not being cool, I think it is not the uniform, rather Scouting that isn't cool. To fight that, try to show the adventurous side of scouting. It isn't a coincidence that the uniform is also remarkably like that of 19th century explorers. Show the kids that Scouting is about adventure. Organize a campout, run by Scouters, but don't advertise it as a scout event, rather as a campout organized by people who have experience as Scoutmasters. At that event participants should see adults in the Scout uniform who give tham an adventure. At the end there should be a sign up sheet for anyone who wants to join the Scouts. This campout might also serve to raise funds for a troop, district, etc. YIS JMM

"But I think as long as we have whatever it is we should wear it. " I agree, the uniform should be used, but the National office should make it easier. Expensive uniforms means poorer people can't have the full uniform, and therefor can't be properly dressed.

Well, that's the rule in Ecuador, and we don't have any problem with it. Maybe the shade varies some, but not enough to make anyone complain. By regulation Scouts must wear blue jeans, the uniform shirt, some other scout shirt, or a white shirt. YIS JMM(This message has been edited by JM_Ecuador)

" Also, other organizations mandate specifics for their uniforms in terms of colors, style, etc. Its NOT just a matter of getting 'blue pants'. " Well, the Scouts del Ecuador says that their official pants are blue jeans. "Pantalon Official- Pantalon jean azul"

Keep in mind that all parts of the uniform, except the patches, can be gotten from other sources. You can get similar shirts, pants, etc. And it would be in keeping with B-P's original intent that the uniform be affordable and utilitarian.

First of all, I am not a member of the BSA. I am an Assistant Troopmaster with the Scouts del Ecuador. I thought I'd comment on the Uniform issue. In Ecuador the Oficial Uniform consists of a Shirt. Blue for trained leaders, grey for youth and untrained leaders. The official pants are blue jeans, except for formal occasions, when it is blue pants. Every group has it's own bandana, and may have other uniform pieces such as a vest, jacket, cap, etc. But the only standardized required piece is the shirt. Now I have read enough on this forum to know that the uniform is a controversial subject. I believe that the Uniform should be used, because it instills a certain pride after a time, and it is a record of what one has done as a Scout. What if the BSA were to do like the ASE (and other countries) and only have one or two basic uniform pieces, and let the others be generic. In other words, have the shirt be standardized, but only specify which color pants should be. As to the design, don't cops, medical workers, pilots, UPS guys, and others wear shirts that are almost identical to the Scout Shirt? If it comes down to it, keep the basic design the same, but have every group be responsible for choosing where they get it. What would diferentiate it from other uniforms would be the patches and a bandana. If I am correct, doesn;t Wal Mart carry shirts that are very similar in design?