annom200

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After some review, the leader who gave us the information was inaccurate about the boys age, we found this out after talking with the parents directly. They were actually going on 10 in December. The mix up was the grade requirement. One thing I have noticed is that National keep getting more discriminating towards the boys. I see this rule as discrimination. Just like with there new Health and Medical forms, specifically the Height and weight requirements. Very discriminating indeed! I know its already a HOT topic with most people concerning this but, don't you notice the discrimination this puts on people!! What ever happened to the old days and the saying where scouts was for anyone? Now if your a little to big well you cannot do this and that with the scouts. Getting scouts in our area already hurts and this new medical form will be like dropping a bomb on the scouting population in a lot of areas. Just seems like National keeps putting more and more nonsense rules and regulations on scouts is run. I thought scouts was suppose to be about the boys and what they want to do! Yes as you can see i am still a little hot under the skin about the new medical forms, well its about what are they going to do next. Annom200

Yes this statement is what stirred me up to!! i fully agree with that... Well let them know what you feel!!! They would be MORE than happy to answer your questions in fact I think he was glad to get my email to help clarify things on it! His email is: "Health and Safety Team" Health.Safety@scouting.org I guess they are logging email to try and answer problems like these!! Give it a shot... AS there trying to get input also on the new forms!! So if you want to fight them on this here's your chance... As I call it there like in Beta form right now i dont think this form is set in stone just yet!! YIS, Annom200 (This message has been edited by annom200)(This message has been edited by annom200)

This is a post from nationals Health and Saftey team... And I do say i have to agree with them!! But this is interesting information for anyone concerned... From: Health and Safety Team Subject: RE: Web site questions To: Date: Friday, January 2, 2009, 5:00 PM There were many factors considered when putting this together. Risk and Experience are probably the two biggest factors: Risk is the simplest answer. Scouting in the great outdoor classroom we work is all about management of risks. In this case the higher the adventure, the farther away from transport the higher the risk to not only the individual but to the unit or patrol. How many 11 year old Boy Scouts does it take to bring a 300 lb man off a mountain? This is a huge risk to a a trained rescue team and a wheel stretcher. As to helicopter evacuation not many units have $25,000 laying around to pay for an emergency evacuation bill. Experience is another. The depth of knowledge of the team that worked this out is incredible. Represented was the best we have in the movement. We have folks with high adventure and camping experience, Den leaders, Paramedics, Safety Professionals, Wilderness Medical Professionals, Nurses and can hang our hat that the folks who contributed have and continue to provide mountain top experiences for our youth. If you would review the FAQs and the form the H/W is not necessarily a requirement for most resident camps. From the form: It is important to note that the height/weight chart must be strictly adhered to if the event will take the unit Beyond a radius wherein emergency evacuation is more than 30 minutes by ground transportation, such as Backpacking trips, high-adventure activities, and conservation projects in remote areas And Individuals desiring to participate in any high-adventure activity or events in which emergency evacuation would take longer than 30 minutes by ground transportation will not be permitted to do so if they exceed the weight limit as documented at the bottom of this page. Enforcing the height/weight limit is strongly encouraged for all other events, but it is not mandatory From the FAQ: Q. There are three parts to the Annual Health and Medical Record, which part do I need to fill out? A. All participants should fill out Parts A and C for any event. Part B (the physical examination) should be completed if you are participating in an event that exceeds 72 consecutive hours, such as jamborees, summer camps, and Wood Badge training courses. Part B also is required for participation in a resident camp setting or when the nature of the activity is strenuous and demanding such as service projects, work weekends, or high-adventure treks. It is important to note that if the event will take your unit beyond a radius wherein emergency care is more than 30 minutes by ground transportation, the height/weight chart found at the bottom of Part B should be strictly followed. Please note that individual units, districts, or councils may have policies in place to exceed this standard based on their unique risks As you describe your experience it should not impact you or others in any way that you have not been impacted in the past. So status quo. You would still be subject to whatever requirements the camp may impose. In addition, physical fitness should have already been considered in the planning process if following the sweet 16 of BSA safety. Again, nothing new. Think about this, would we want to put someone on a rope or ladder designed for 250 lbs that weighed 325? Thank you for your comments. We are logging them and using them to develop our FAQs. Richard R. Bourlon, P.E., CSP Team Leader, Health and Safety BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA 1325 West Walnut Hill Lane P.O. Box 152079 Irving, TX 75015-2079 Anyways he did a nice job of explaining the new forms... The height and weight requirements ARE NOT MANDATORY but strongly recommended... YIS, Annom200

This is also big time discrimination towards all scouts and scouters who are heavy. I think this will go further than just leaders complaining i bet this will lead to parents complaining to National also! I am willing to be that this rule on the weight requirement will be dropped. Plus on most occasions when your getting a sick, or injured heavy person out, usually there always a way even if they have to bring in a helicopter to get them out. They have always managed in the past to deal with these situations... plus a scout is kind, helpful, friendly, and brave, and are suppose to help out when the unexpected happens. That what BEING PREPARED is all about i thought? Its like saying well kick him out because he's accident prone, so don't let him do anything. Yes i think they should be encouraging healthy programs such as making program mandatory for both boys and leaders to encourage weight loss at camp. Maybe even some sort of rewards for loosing weight, but it should NEVER be a rule that if your overweight you cannot attend. As I feel that discrimination. That setting yourself up for NASTY consequences!! Including a possible dramatic loss of membership on both the leader and boy side of scouting. But its not the right thing to do is tell kids especially that there to overweight to attend, scouts might take it the wrong way and you might never see them again! Especially if they were looking forward to attending! What if someone that was big from National and they accidentally fell and broke a bone or something, would it be nice to walk up to them and say well you shouldn't be here because your to big. Oh no i bet that wouldn't go over easy. Well i wish that they would put themselves in other peoples shoes before making rules. What would happen if they were that BIG person and had to abide these rules. HA i bet this rule wouldn't be so fun then! I do hope there some changes to this new form or I can almost assure you there will be a huge decrease in membership both leaders and boys wise! YIS, Annom200

Plus with our number of scouts under 1,000 in the council (5 districts wide!), I know the council probably won't say anything against it!! Our council is one hurting for new scouts... I personally cannot see them turning scouts like these away, but just thought I would ask!

That the second problem, our District don't have either a Paraprofessional or a DE!! We used to but the DE resigned a couple of months ago and no replacement has been assigned yet...

WE have Webelos 2 scouts that are 9 years old... They were started a year early at determination of there Den Leader. Problem is there mom is now the Webelos 2 leader and fully intends on giving them there Arrow of Light. Now considering the power of the Scoutmaster, does the Scoutmaster have the right to allow 9 year old scout enter Boy Scouts even though the rules state they must be 10 years old and have Arrow of Light... We really don't want to turn these scouts away a year it could destroy there interest in scouting and getting boys in our area is =hard to come by... Like does the Scoutmaster have to power to allow for this, like say even the COR agreed also to let them in, does council have any power to deny us from getting them?? I am just trying to find out on behalf on the troop if we could get into trouble for letting boys in who are "too young"... YIS, annom200