AnnLaurelB

Thread bump!! :0) This is a fascinating read! And just to chime in, also as a female, I'm head of one of the families mentioned--I'm single, and raising two kids. My daughter is almost 18, but my "medium" guy (as I was instructed to call him on his birthday, and not "little" guy) has a long way to go, yet. A couple of things: 1) Male Role Models: My son sees his dad about every other weekend, but he is involved to that degree, at least. I don't even want to go into whether that's better or worse for the boy; I've heard BOTH arguments. It doesn't matter. That's his dad. But I brought him to Cub Scouts because I wanted him to *regularly* be around strong MALE adult role models. However, due to rampant dysfunction (back-reference "Wild at Heart"), 24 months later my son's Pack has ME as a CM and another single mom as CC, herself with long years in the Scouting trenches with her sons. Is that what I intended? No. I envisioned a MANLY MAN investing himself in my son's life, my son having age-group pals with whom to grow "in wisdom and in stature", and I'd be the supportive mom saying, "Okay! Let's recycle popscicle sticks," and "Wow! What a great job!" and "Yes, I'll bring cake." But... life doesn't work out the way we envision, does it? Does this mean that I *can't* SHOW my son (and other fatherless boys, it turns out) how to impale a nightcrawler on a hook? No; somebody needs to! Even though OMG I hate fish! Would it have occurred to me to take him camping by myself? Oh, hell no. But by golly I marched my womb-toting self down to Wally's and got us a tent. Would I *rather* a daddy-type teach him these things? Yes, I would. I would GLEEFULLY hand over my Den Leader role to a (qualified, thank you) MAN, because I BELIEVE IT WOULD BE BEST. But in the meantime, *I* tell the booger jokes, and *I* tell the mommies that "We CAME OUT HERE to play with sticks! Johnny! Find me one, too!" 2) That all being said, please do not mistake me for someone who doesn't know how to be a lady. I'm not trying to BE my son's father; I'm only trying to teach him some of the things his dad ...won't. When I am running a Pack activity, if a daddy offers to carry something for me, I LET HIM. While I *can* do most things that a man can do, there is no shame in letting someone who is stronger than I take a burden from me. I can lead a zoo parade, I can dig a fire pit (and hide it again), I can pitch a tent, I can... you get the idea. But do I *also* say to my Cubbies "A gentleman holds the door for a lady. Why, thank you, sir!", and then sashay through it like a (bad) ballerina? You bet I do. Do I require the Cubbies to let the little sisters get in the food line first? Yes. Can I hit a grounder and slide into 2nd? You bet I can. Women are NOT equal to men (Sorry, Gloria!). I don't want my son thinking that I'm the "same as" a man. Yes, I CAN mow the lawn and change the oil and take out the trash and lead a Cub Scout Pack on a camp out, BUT I would *rather* a big strong man do it, and let me bake my damn cookies. And I'm not ashamed of that.

Thank you for this! My son has just finished his Wolf Cub year, but I have friends whose son bridge to the troop in Feb. The mom is going NUTS trying to understand the VAST difference between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. I'm sending her a link to this thread; I think it will help her understand the philosophy better.

*sigh* I miss Tulli.

The beauty of the "hobo packets" or foil dinners (if you have enough cooking space to deal with the challenges of them), are great for this, because EVERYONE can assemble their own meal. We did the ziploc omelettes*, and each boy cracked his own eggs in there, added goodies, mushed it up, etc... so they were "cooking" even though the adults manned the boiler. What also works for us is putting a team of 2, 3, 4 families in charge of each meal. If you have a larger Pack, you rotate it the next time. The families for, say Saturday breakfast, decide what they're going to serve, split the grocery list between them, and THEIR Cubs are to help those parents with that meal, in whatever way their parents feel they're capable. *(I know, I KNOW, but I don't think twice a year cooking in a plastic bag is going to kill anyone. There was a skillet to use if someone objected to the baggies)

We have the Wally's Ozark tents. They ARE very easy to put up; my Wolf ('Scuze me BEAR as of last night) can put up the 4-man (really 2 Cub) one with a buddy, with just a little supervision on getting the poles through the sleeves smoothly. And the 6-man (read: 2 adult, 3 Cub) tent I was able to put up with just my son for help the first time I ever tried it (and I was a non-camper before joining Cub Scouts). The rain flys COULD be bigger; I notice they *barely* cover the mesh. In blowing rain, water would likely get in some. But if you stake the tent down, and use the fly tie-downs right, they're just fine, as least for dry weather. There was no way I could have afforded to pay any more than for the Wally's tents; they *should* get me and the boy through Cub Scouts (if we're careful), and then I'll get him a spiffier one for his Boy Scout adventures.

We had good luck with the wet paper towel in between layers of foil, but the heat burned off the Sharpie we'd used to write everyone's names on the foil. No one remembered which one was theirs, so we had a few people open theirs and say, "Hey, mine didn't have onion!" I WAS a little tough for that many people, but we laid everything out assembly-line style, and it was alright. I really encouraged the families in charge of each meal to choose something that got COOKED in SOME way. This was because I had one parent say she wanted to bring stuff for pbj's for supper. If you want a sammich go on a picnic, but we want hot food.

I don't feel so bad, now. I took 400 flyers to the school, but couldn't do a boy talk because I couldn't get off work. Who from District does that? Surely that's up their alley. I had three families show up; two registered-- a Tiger and a Wolf. So that's nice, but I was (of course) hoping for good numbers. But, as someone posted, these flyers may have planted a seed. Raise your hand if you've ever cleaned out the back pack and found a paper about something and said, "Awwwh. We'd have gone to that." (*raises hand*) Maybe NEXT time some of those households see a Cub Scout flyer, they'll say, "Oh, yeah. I meant to check into this. Cool. They're doing another sign-up night."

THANK YOU for mentioning that the "sleeps" number does not mean, "accommodates 4 adults AND THEIR STUFF"! This is important. I have a 4-man and a 6-man. The 4 is good for 2 people plus STUFF, and the 6 is good for 3 people plus stuff. In a PINCH, you could stuff another person into either of them, if everyone can keep their gear organized. But for room to change clothes and such, see above guidelines. :0) P.S. I think it's fine for a Bear to sleep in a tent by themselves, as long as it's close enough to be in speaking-voice distance. Our last camp out, I let my son share a tent with another Wolf, so that I could have my tent to myself. It was fine.(This message has been edited by annlaurelb)

If they publish new Wolf books, to whom do I appeal for them to get the State of Georgia's flag corrected? They picture the wrong one. If you live in Idaho, who'd ever know? But here I sat talking about the meaning of the GEORGIA flag, and their books ... don't have the right flag. This is not a job for people who can't think on their feet! :0)

ScoutLass, I think you've hit on it! I think as people who have taken the initiative to be in charge of a program like this, we (as adults) expect other (adult) people to act like (ADULTS)! When they don't, I think it's hard for us to decide to "parent" them, too. But you're right--you have to redirect the problem parents just like you would a recalcitrant Cubbie. And dang. I wish I'd thought up a fun scouty moniker. :0/

But...this is where the confusion must lie... lay? I hate when my grammar fails me. The Leader book that the other Pack's CC showed me Wednesday night, she said reflected the new "NEW" method, which she said, "...brings the family BACK IN to the Requirements, placing a lot of the reponsibility BACK on the family, making it an *inclusive* program." Which is how I ran it this year, anyway. Do as much as possible in Den, using that time to *also* earn extra bling that might not happen all by yourself, BUT assigning a task for them to bring back the next week. Is it that some of us haven't seen the new-New-NEW rollout, yet? I was confused when she told me, "bringing the family back in," because I've been requring Akela to participate, anyway. As you said, the whole crux is that it's a *guideline*, and you've got to do what works for YOUR group. My guys had AMPLE opportunity to acheive Wolf...*if* they showed up to Den.

Let me expand on that. One of the Wolf req's is to keep a chore chart for a week. I printed it out, and we did the Den stuff, and sent the charts home. They were supposed to be BROUGHT BACK filled out. But a couple of them didn't bring them. So I quizzed them on what they'd done, and then eyebrow'd the parent to confirm whether they'd done it. Okay, pass. Another is "Plan the meals for your family for a day, using the food pyramid." We did that one IN DEN, although the whole chapter is almost solid "At home with YOUR family." There's one about seeing a live performance. The Den went to one, and the Pack went to one. If a kid couldn't come to EITHER of them, the parent would HAVE to find SOMETHING live to go to. HECK, I'd have counted "We went to see Grandma's solo in the choir on Sunday.! :0) But they *didn't do it*. The "Tools" one? We did it ALL in Den meetings. We painted the birdhouse pieces one week, then assembled them the next. This kid missed that assembly. So I sent it home at Pack meeting and said, "Bring that to a den meeting assembled, and I'll sign you off." But he never brought it back. What can I do? I guess I could have had them over in a corner doing it at another Den meeting, but then how would have have done whatever Den stuff I was covering right then, while he was over there hammering? Even as much as I TRIED to pack Den meetings chock full o'Req's, if they didn't do ANY of the homework, they miss about 1/4 of the stuff. And he had TONS of absences (baseball), so missed a lot of Den stuff anyway. :0(

Wait, wait. No. What I was told (and shown) last night was that the "new delivery" was focusing on BRINGING THE FAMILY BACK INTO the requirements! When I looked at her new book, it was the same as I'd found online, and at least 1/3 of the stuff is done at home. At any rate, when I flip through the Wolf book, I find like 26 of 58 items that say either "in your Den" (specifically, like leading an opening or attending an outdoor flag ceremony), or "with your family," (such as cooking your own breakfast and helping with another meal). Almost EVERY part "A" in the chapters starts with, "Discuss with your family..." One of the Req's is to visit an "important" place. I walked my Wolves down to the Courthouse (about 1.5 blocks from here), and had them read the historical marker and look at the symbols on the sign, etc...and I told them what they meant, etc... This kid was absent for that, too. Chapter 11 Duty to God instructs the Wolf to find out how they can serve their church. I provided two different opportunities to serve OUR church, in case they didn't have one of their own. He didn't come to them. I provided two different opportunities to participate in an outdoor flag ceremony. He didn't come to either of those, either. But even if he had, there ARE a LOT of "at home" stuff. And my understanding is that the new, NEW delivery method includes a ~homework~ assignment almost every week. Still. If a kid had COME to even MOST of my Den meetings, he'd have probably been close. But if the book said, "With your family" or "In your house", I expected them to accomplish it.

Ahah! Gotcha! Well, I'll give them that option. But really. If they didn't do the make-up work for the missed Den meetings AS I gave them the information, I seriously doubt they're going to use up their summer doing stuff all by themselves. And you know what? If someone cries over not earning Rank, and you OFFER "Hey! You have until July 31st to finish!" if that doesn't make them feel better, and make them go, "Whew! Okay! We're on it!" then they have entitlement issues, and I'm not interested.

I figure I'm going to hear the same thing on Monday night. But the least-involved Wolf only did 45% of the requirements. I'm going to simply state that to award the SAME Badge to a kid who only did 45% of the requirements as a kid who did 100% of them simply isn't right. The requirements don't say "Do some of these." They say to do ALL of them. Period. "Let's enjoy our summer and then work really really hard on that Bear Badge come fall, okay?" Stand firm!

Wow! Good to know; I'll check with the guy who told me it was sometime in July. Not, mind you, that I think these guys are going to fall over themselves to get this stuff done...or they would have already done it when I begged them to. And if someone asks "Whyyyyy" their kid didn't get their Badge, I'll say exactly what you did: to award it to the kids who only did 55% of the requirements is not fair to the kids who did 100% of them. There's no "partial" Badges. It says "Do These". And that means all of them.

Well, T-minus 4 days and counting until our graduation/bridging ceremony. Of my 5 year-long Wolves, only 2 has earned his Badge (1 of them is MY kid.) I was feeling really bad about that (I'm the Den Leader, after all), until I laid out the attendance records and the home-assignment sign-offs. Yeah, no. They each either missed SO many Den meetings (hey, if you choose baseball over Cubs, that's totally legitimate, but don't cry when you don't earn Rank), or they completely failed to even TRY to do the home stuff (new delivery method -- a lot placed on the fam's), that there's no way I can consider them for Badges. I explained *very carefully* to EACH boy/parent that we were doing THIS part tonight, but if they wanted it signed off, they needed to do THAT part at home and bring me the print out, or the chart filled in, or mail me the envelope (that I provided). I made it as simple as I could, but these 3 just ... never came through, despite repeated pleadings on my part. All 3 of them flaked on their Badge Check appointments with me, so I couldn't even flip through their books and compare them to the attendance and see if they could fill in more stuff. One aunt did drop off one of the absentees' books. He's missing 26 of 58 pawprints. Now, they have until sometime in July (???) to go ahead and try to finish, but a lot of what this kid is missing is stuff that say things like, "With your Den, lead a flag ceremony..." Well, we won't HAVE any more Den meetings before the end of August, sorry. And the other two simply didn't produce their books for the last MONTH for me to assess. So I'm not fudging it for them! I've ordered these 3 their Bear neckers, and they'll be *graduated* along with the Den of course, but only the two who DID all 58 items (confirmed) are getting their Wolf Badges. If they get evidence to me that they've done the Requirements by July, then I'll give them their Badges at opening next year. But not this week. Is that harsh? I don't think so.

I've got the opposite problem. I have 5 Wolves, and only 2 of them are going to receive their Rank badges on Monday. They simply didn't DO much of anything.

UPDATE!! You know, I VERY MUCH appreciate ALL of your words and different points of view on all of these topics. It really helps to hear different facets of interpretation. I'm very new to this game; every day I deal with something within Cub Scouts that's foreign to me. I was mistaken about the DC coming in on a black horse; he explained that if the *CO* decides to remove him for drinking, then he (DC) will send a letter to BSA and someone "up there" will decide whether to revoke this guy's membership. As it turns out, the guy, the CC elect, the drunk... DIDN'T EVEN REMEMBER THERE WAS A COMMITTEE MEETING. I called him about 5 minutes til and said, "Are you on your way?" "On my way where? No! I'm at the ball field. My boy has a game! Take notes for me!" Um... he's THE COMMITTEE CHAIR! I GAVE him a flyer Monday night reminding him of HIS MEETING, but, being intoxicated, he had no recollection of it, nor had he mentioned to me ON Monday night that he just plain didn't plan on showing up. Whatever, dude. So my DC and my UC arrive, and ONE other Committee member: the Advancements guy. No CO Rep, (obviously no CC), no treasurer (out of town), no other-guy-who-admitted-he-only-signed-up-to-make-old-lady-childrens-minister-happy. So there I am with two spiffy uniformed BSA reps, and ONE Committee guy. Hello?!? So basically they said, "Well, are the TWO OF YOU in agreement that he (the drunk guy) should be removed from leadership?" We concurred that we were. Now, about that time the CO Rep DID show up, and the Advancement guy had to leave. So I told the CO Rep what had happened, the DC and the UC filling in spots, and the CO Rep agreed that the guy should be removed. THEN the PASTOR shows up (he'd had another meeting before), and we told HIM what had been discussed. Poor guy--he said, "Oh, so you gentlement have decided to do such-and-such?" I said, "Um...pastor? This is what I've been trying to explain. With Miss Betty (the retired Children's minister) gone, you're now considered the head of the Charter Org. You sort of own this thing." He said, "Oh! I see. Okay, then..." Bless his heart. So he and the CO Rep (who both agreed that the next time, I'm to call the police) said that they would set up a meeting with him and tell him he's been released, and ask for his keys back. The pastor is also a mfc counselor, so he's going to approach this more as, "What's going on with you, man?" and see if he can get him some help. Which is a good thing. Meanwhile, the gal from the other Pack said that since she's pretty much free over the summer, she's going to come on board to help us figure out some stuff. We all agreed to strategize over the summer, then reasses when school starts in August.

I love you people. Thank you, that is all.

We have a screamer, too. We're asking her not to come back. :0/

Okay, wait. I know in the Rank BOOKS the Akela's signature is all that's required. And AS it's true that ANY parent can go buy ANY Beltloop they wanna buy for their kid, then I think IF they want the PACK to present a crazy amount of them (especially if the Pack is paying for them), then it's fair to ask for SOME documentation. A quick quiz, or a print out, or a museum receipt or a Library card or SOMETHING.

Man, and I felt a little guilty turning in for 1 Beltloop each month for a Den of 6 Wolfies. The other guys weren't earning as many in their Dens, but hey, I built the Beltloops INTO my lesson plans. I'm trying to think HOW it's possible to TRULY go through the requirements for THAT MANY in such a short time. You may be stuck this year, but I suggest your Committee put forth a limit on Beltloops. One Den-earned Beltloop per month (if the Leader wants to), and one (optional) Home-earned Beltloop per month. Be very clear that anyone turning in for MORE than that must pay for it themselves, AND provide AMPLE proof that they did the requirements. (Computer Beltloop: where's the "document" you prepared and printed yourself?" etc...)

I respect your opinion. As I said, everything in life is a judgement call. And everyone's judgement has different shadings, leanings, etc... I used my judgement under the circumstances of the moment to make the call that 90 minutes+ was sufficient time for him at least to not drive HOME intoxicated. I've taken the necessary steps to make sure that he's not allowed to drive church kids OR Cub Scouts, again. He may have gotten a "grace" card from me the other night (which he may not have gotten from everyone, I accept), but you must not assume the "next" time (and there will in all likelihood BE a next time) that he will enjoy the same degree of grace, having used up his grace allotment with me, already.

Yeah, I didn't see how having him arrested in front of his kids would help much, if it could be avoided. It might have been simpler if he'd just been a Cub dad, and could have been taken aside privately. But he's a registered Adult Leader in our Pack, and there were ALL those parents looking at ME to do something about it. So I quietly told them I'd notify our DE, which I did. Last time this happened it was handled within the CO/church, and he retained his BSA membership. This time however, because I went straight to my DE, his membership will be revoked, no matter what the CO/pastor/CO Rep says. The pastor is on board to try to help him within the ministries of the church; I hope they have some resources that can help.