AnnLaurelB

Oaktree! Wow. Regardless of what Concernedmom decides to do, that's some GOOD STUFF! :0)

So I met with the Committee member/Bear dad/other Pack leader guy last night. Turns out I wasn't exaggerating (I didn't really think that I was, but there's always that doubt). Several of the parents commented to him, too, over our camp out that it would have been a very enjoyable time... except for that one boy coming unhinged and his grandmother barking at him all the time. Two of the dads told BOTH of us that they really WANT to be involved, but the behavior of this one boy is so grating, that they struggle with wanting to continue. This Committee guy/Bear parent HIMSELF said that he wouldn't come to the rest of the Pack stuff this year, except that he'd leave me high and dry without another Trained leader (I don't count the grandma, even though she's 'trained' because she so often is distracted by her boy as to be rendered unhelpful). So. We cobbled together a presentation to take place next Thur (the soonest we could both meet when the UC could be there). And one of the interesting things to come out of the conversation was something I want to bring up in another thread. :0) I'll keep y'all posted how that meeting goes. I'm looking forward to it like root canal, but I'm committed to doing what's best.

On the one hand, it IS DREADFUL manners to park in a handicapped space if you don't have the sticker. MAYBE for one minute while you get a huge box out of the trunk, but then move your car. Maybe. On the other hand, the WORST form of bad manners ... ...is to correct a peer's bad manners. I suggest you approach the management of the building where this is taking place, and ask them to say something "to whomever seems to be parking there illegally." On the third hand, are you absolutely certain there isn't an invisible handicap? Myasthenia gravis or something? Just playing devil's advocate.

Did that make sense? If the other boy is very insecure or feels threatened by his mom paying attention to all these other little boys, he may (consciously or not) want to drive them away from his mama. I'm not trying to play psychotherapist here, but I think that other little BOY might have a problem with his mom being a Den leader, but I don't think YOU necessarily have a problem with the Den leader... ...at least not without more evidence. The other little boy may have just been extra obnoxious that day. Do you see what I'm saying?

I agree. The other kid was obnoxious to say such a thing, but you cannot be 100% sure the Den Leader said anything like that at all! I'm a CM, but I also lead the Wolf Den, and I KNOW my son sometimes gets a little wild because HIS mom is running the show, and he thinks he can get away with it. This other kid *might* just be jealous of the time and effort and attention HIS mom is putting into these other little boys, and that conflict of feelings might be coming out in how he treats other boys in the Den; it might not be ONLY your son. I would say if you've BEEN there all along, and you've never SEEN personality conflicts between your son and the Den leader, that you need to Let This Go. We're talking about 7 year olds here (I have one). You can't account for every word they say. I know your little guy was hurt, but you need to explain to him that KIDS will often say very hurtful things, EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT TRUE, and that you cannot BELIEVE the Den leader would ever say such a thing, and didn't we have so much fun doing _____....etc... Shake off the dust, let a 7-year-old's comment slide off your back, keep going to your Den meetings, enjoy yourselves, and just keep a watchful eye for conflicts. THEN decide if something needs to be changed.

61, I think we were separated at birth! We have a lot in common (except the meeting space thing). We also have just 13 boys (two are aging out next month, leaving me 11), and I just took over this past year as CM. I concur with the other comments; your Exec should be your go-to guy, and you should also have a Unit Commissioner (a volunteer advisor who guides Packs through exactly what you're talking about). The library might have a meeting room you could use once a month. Or how about a local business with a lobby they don't use in the evenings? (Industrial business lobbies are pretty sturdy--I work in an HVAC contractor's office, and our lobby would work, while we're small). Just throwin' out ideas. We're VERY blessed to have a chartering church who gives us access to their hall, so Pack meetings aren't a problem. The Dens all meet at the leaders' homes. But I would love to exchange ideas with you on how to deal with small Packs (our schools aren't that helpful, either).

Steal the Bacon. Active, classic, and hysterically funny.

No problem; I appreciate the input! I tend to write books, myself. :0) I've seen those little square coins on the scoutstuff website; that's a neat idea! We *almost* decided to give those out as gifts at Blue and Gold; I'm glad we changed our minds--I like the "get caught being awesome" idea. You've articulated a lot of what I've been thinking--that I want him to succeed, etc... I think the part that IS the most dreaded will be articulating all of this to Grandma. I'm meeting with the other Pack leader parent tonight; I need to make sure he understands we're not just out to indict the boy. We don't want her to feel attacked or shunned, etc... Again, thanks for your words; I searched "cubmaster forum" because I KNEW there had to be one, and I figured y'all would have the best insights.

That's okay. Everyone should have a cyber stalker. At least a friendly one! ;0) "...not fun because of one guy, a group of guys, fire ants, Alien abduction or any other reason,..." BWAHahahahah! Alien abduction. Heh. Yeah, I feel a lot better now that I've resolved to do this. I think the WORST feeling was that of being stuck with him and just tolerating it and thinking we couldn't do anything about it. Mr. Personal Problems (again LOL!) does have those, but he's still a Pack leader, a Committee member, and a Bear parent. I talked with him today about getting our ducks on the same page about the problem boy, and he said that his son doesn't want to go on any more outings with the other kid. Over the camping weekend, EVERY adult in attendance said something to me about him. I'm meeting with the Bear parents tomorrow about their Web1 den, then I'll talk with Mr. PP about some specific examples, and what the Behavior Contract will look like. This has GOT to be one of the ickiest things a CM will have to do. But when that kid's NOT around, we have way too much fun to let him ruin then next year for us. Again, thanks for the input, everyone! You have no idea how much it helps my ease of mind to know that I'm doing the right thing. Or...maybe you do. :0)

Awww, thanks for the vote of confidence. :0) My plan, as I cobble it together is to 1) Take steps toward mitigating our behavior issue -- I've got my Commissioner on board for that. 2) Re-shuffle the Committee into responsibility areas -- My Scout Exec will be in attendance for that. 3) Inform the parents that we've experienced a "re-model" of how the Pack is run, and the "Committee" will now be a "Parent/Leader Team" (call it whatever you want to). 4) Go forward with our calendar and identify needs as we go. My HOPE is that the current liason/rep/whatever you call him will agree to become the Chair. I see the Chair as the person who wrangles the Committee members, and has final say on screening people. He'll be fine at that. My Advancements guy is very special to us because he WAS the founding Cubmaster, an Eagle Scout, etc...and he very much lends an air of dignity and history to the Pack meetings and special events. The former Cubmaster/other Pack parent guy is FINE where he is on Events. He steps and fetches dates, times, details, maps, files permits, etc... Which I-I-I don't wanna have to do! One guy who was, as you put it, a "ghost" member was just handed the checkbook last month, and he's *perfect* for that. If he'll just keep the books and write the checks and do the math, that's great! That makes 4, but I still have the Youth Guy coming in. I'm hoping I can convince him to be the Scout Parent Liason. He's a pastoryish person; that should be right up his alley. If I can segue that into him being in charge of volunteer training, I'd be a happy girl! Then there's one other guy who was another "ghost", who only put his name down so the church could get the charter. His wife did an amazing job on decorating for Blue and Gold, so it might be worth keeping him around. ;0) I think we'll be alright. I just need to stop being passive and got after what needs to be done. Thanks for the input; I'll keep you posted.

Heh. The best moment was when I was up in front with the mic, trying to stall, and said, "Can someone find Mr. David*?" (the guy who was supposed to secure the fire truck). He popped his head out of the kitchen, and I said, "Any word on the surprise?" He just said, "Nope. I dunno. They were supposed to be here." (Pause...lengthy pause...) "Well...um...Mr. David, if you don't mind, could you CHECK for us?" "Oh. OH! Sure, yeah, right, okay, just a minute..." *names changed to protect the innocent...or not.

"Some events might not execute as well as you had hoped..." BWAHahahahah! Um...yeah, like my Blue and Gold, which I had timed within 15 minutes of the "surprise" arriving. The local fire department was SUPPOSED to come roaring into the lot (right past the windows where we were) between 7:30 and 7:45. I had stuff planned during that time that could/would be interrupted. However, 7:30 came and went...7:35...7:40...7:45...Now I was getting worried... Yeah, they didn't show up. The *ahem* COMMITTEE member in charge of getting them there didn't confirm (although his text to me said he had). THAT was supposed to have been the memorable part of the evening. The firemen were supposed to let them try on their gear, and climb all over the truck, and run the siren. I was sooo disappointed, but what could I do? I just had to apologize, and promise that we'd have the surprise another time. Oh, well. You win some, you lose some. It was still a nice banquet.

Oooh! Oooh! I meant to say too that I don't like the District derby because THEY DON'T LET THE BOYS TOUCH THE CARS. I think each driver/crafstman should carry their own car up to be placed on the track. But it was just them looking at their names on a screen, then seeing their car race FROM AFAR. It's dumb. They have no personal interest in it. It WAS boring and tedious and they were racing against boys they didn't even know. I have no use for it. It's one of those things that I'm marking "NA". Never Again.

I love the idea of a drivers license! I'm not sure I'd try doing them the day OF the race; some of our funnest few joint-Den meetings were Pinewood workshops. I think I'd still like them to be able to (see them) cut into the shapes they choose, then they sand, and paint and all. HOWEVER! The Great Wheel Fiasco of 2011 is NAWT something I want to repeat (my therapist says I shouldn't even mention it). I think what might work is to pass out JUST THE BLOCKS, with instructions to NOT damage the little wheel wells, that those have to remain intact, then let the Dens do WHATEVER with the cars. Then on the DAY of our race, you hand every parent a set of nails and wheels. They put them on in front of you, turn them in, and that's it. That's how they race. Talk about kindler, gentler!

Hey, I took all 12 of my Cubbies bowling a couple months ago, and made them learn how to punch the names in (anyone remember the overhead projector and the grease pencil? Anyone? Anyone?), and how to get the balls out safely, and lane courtesy and everything. I got them all beltloops for it, because they all showed up in a torrential downpour, they listened, they waited nicely, they cheered for each other, and they really tried to learn what all the parents were showing them about bowling. If I say again next January, "LET'S GO BOWLING!" I bet they'd all still jump all over it, even though we did it last year. My point is, don't they look forward to repeat outings? We went fishing last April; we're going again Saturday. I don't think my son would NOT want to go again next April, just because he went as a Tiger and as a Wolf. He digs going fishing. I think repeat stuff is GOOD! They'll say, "I remember each Blue and Gold Banquet, those little old church ladies knocked themselves out! Even though we didn't really care that there were white linen tablecloths!" (Why, yes, my little old church ladies DID score white linen tablecloths for my B&G for my 12 little Cub Scouts.)

"Hobby? Sure I've got a hobby. I have a Cub Scout!"

Adopt me.

P.S. It's funnier to me to say that, because there's something about my UC that intimidates the snot outta me. I don't think it's him -- it's me. He just reminds me of a school principal or something. You don't wrinkle your school principal.

In a 1943 Bugs Bunny Cartoon, 'Falling Hare', the 'abominable snowman' grabs Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck saying, "I wanna hug him and squeeze him and call him George" with Mel Blanc doing an unmistakable imitation of Lon Chaney (of Mice and Men's Lenny). This concludes the nerdgasm of the day.

UPDATE! So the older lady who should have been the church liason, but who was the de facto CC, is leaving of course. In her place they've hired a young man to be the Youth Guy. The pastor told me yesterday that they guy wants to be involved in Scouting. (That may have something to do with me crying to my best friend, who is the son of the Advancements Chair, who is married to a gal on the pastor/parish committee, who may have told the p/p chairman that the new Youth Guy NEEDS to be on the Cub Committee!) Dontcha just love small towns?!? So our Scout Exec will be at our next Committee meeting for the reshuffling of the deck. Hopefully we can get this little train up the hill.

UPDATE! I emailed both my Commissioner and my Scout Exec and described this boy's behavior; they were both a little stunned that I hadn't tackled it sooner, but they understand that we're still trying to find our footing in this whole thing. The Commissioner is looking at this schedule to find some available times where we might call the Cub and his grandma in for a come-to-Jesus about his disruptiveness. At the very least, I'm going to suggest separate Dens for Web1 and Web2. If they reallyreally want to be in the program, he can do it separately so she can focus on him. At the other end of the spectrum, it might be that they choose not to participate next year. But my Commissioner is firm in his resolve that we can't allow one poorly behaved kid to drive away entire families from our fledgling Pack. From his email: "As CM you must keep in mind the good of the WHOLE unit and not so much the good of the individual pieces because as you are operating now, your good ones are leaving, the bad ones are staying and I dont think that is what you want and that is surely not what a fairly new unit needs in order to survive." Also: "This is not an unusual situation in a unit but it is probably the most unpleasant to deal with. If you dont do something soon you will have others leave. Also you need to keep in mind that even though you and I think that scouting is a great program, it is not for everyone. You are a CM, not a wayward youth soul saver." Don't you just wanna squeeze him and call him George?!? (But I won't do that; I'm sure it would make him uncomfortable. And wrinkle his uniform.)

Aw, thanks sasha! As long as my son's having fun, it's fun for me. I think we have some cultural issues underlying the one Bear mom's reluctance, but I think if we sit down with the Bear dad and give them the options, she might be willing to at least register as the DL for the two boys, and that's a foot in the door. The reward for me is when my son tells me he's enjoying it. In January, we had a Pinewood work night at a church member's wood shop. It was FREEZING, and very tight quarters, and we couldn't talk when the band saw was going, and it was CRAZY for the adults trying to help 7 different boys while moving around the table and tools and freezing half to death. When we got in the car, I think I was partially deaf, but I still heard my son say, "Now THAT... was FUN!" Heh.

@Lisabob-- I hear what you're saying, but I didn't choose the label, nor do I use it verbally; it came about in the course of this thread. I was just using it as a reference from within the context of this exchange. @hotdesk-- I do like that idea as an incentive for the Cubs that are trying, and I may try to implement that! Thanks.

You know, I know this. I know I can do this; I know my instincts are good! But I have been second-guessing myself because 1) I'm new to Scouting AND being CM, 2) I didn't want to overstep my bounds, 3) The "church" aspect of the Charter tends to want to dictate things a certain way. And the list goes on, but those are some of the things I've identified as my challenges. But what I'm learning about Scouting is the same as what I jokingly tell the men I work with (7 men + me, like Snow White): "The sooner you accept that *I* am always right, the happier a man you will be." I've been sooo afraid to step on toes, but the more I read here, the more I realize that ANY firm line (if it's an appropriate one that can be defended by logic and clear thinking) can be enforced if enforced with charm and a smile... ...and an iron will. Heh. :0)

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. We're a little late in the game, at this point, and I've spent the year just getting used to being Cubmaster and understanding what all that entails. I think I'll do as you say, and maybe even sit down with the kid in the next couple weeks and have him tell me what he thinks the Law of the Pack MEANS, line by line. I can also gently/firmly bring to his attention that I can't allow him to disrupt others' fun/learning. And if that means putting him in a Web2 Den with just his grandmother, then that's what I'll do. Once grandma and he understand that the Web1's CAN choose to NOT participate with him, they can choose to Do Their Best, or be in a Den alone, or ...not come back. I'll wait and see how much of the summer stuff they come to...but for two years now, they're there EVERY TIME THE DOORS ARE OPEN. And they're usually early. Heh.