JerseyJohn

Here is more detailed information Click here for the full CoL camping committee report - 11 page PDF John

I forwarded my comments to CoL Council. Given Philadelphia's history, perhaps someone who works for or on behalf of the council has knowledge iof historical preservation. The issue is keeping TI open and exploring paths to do so. Let's not muddy the thread by debating what camp was open when.

I am from the southern NJ council and we are going to TI this Friday. Out of council folks should be able to voice their opinion since we all use each other's facilities. There may be a trail to saving Treasure Island. There may be people involved at Cradle of Liberty (Philadelphia) who are far more familiar with this designation than I. National Historic Landmark Status A National Historic Landmark (NHL) is a building, site, structure, object, or district, that is officially recognized by the United States government for its historical significance. All NHLs are listed in the National Register of Historic Places. Out of more than 80,000 U.S.-listed historic places, however, only about 2,430 are NHLs. It may include contributing properties that have buildings, structures, sites or objects, and it may include non-contributing properties. Criteria NHLs are designated by the United States Secretary of the Interior because they are: * Sites where events of national historical significance occurred; * Places where prominent persons lived or worked; * Icons of ideals that shaped the nation; * Outstanding examples of design or construction; * Places characterizing a way of life; or * Archeological sites able to yield information. Given the history of TI and the national impact of the Scouting Program and the Order of the Arrow on conservation, service, a way of life, America's first Scout Camp, et al, National Historic Landmark status (if applicable) would open the door to federal funding (maintenance) and relieve CoL council of a percentage of the financial burden. CoL, please explore all options. Regards, John

Here is what I did and it worked like a charm We used to pile 3, 4, or 5 scout patrols and the leaders into ONE campsite. I started renting two or three site at BSA council camps at weekend outings. They are inexpensive and well worth spending the extra 15.00 per weekend (you going to pay the $1 per boy regardless, so you are only renting extra sites. That will only run the boys one more dollar for the trip.... Split the patrols between two campsites and the adults take the third site and walla....you become out of sight - out of mind. BP said kepe the patrols 150 to 300 feet away from each other! How many SM's actually do that? They want independence and freedom - then give it to them and watch them perform. John

FWIW My Troop of 55 registered / 40 actives had six Eagles in calendar year 2007 3 - 16 yo 1 - 17.3 yo 1 - 17.9 yo John

My troop did a weekend out of Henson called survivor. Canoe trip thru the Blackwater Wildlife Refuge, MRE's, tarp shelter. Pictures are here. http://www.troop184.com/PictureShow.aspx?dir=2434&img=40294 Run out of Del Mar Va council John

55 scouts - six patrols - SPL 17 year old Life Green Bar replaces one monthly meeting. SPL, 2 ASPL, 6 PL's, Scribe, Instructor, and Quartermaster, myself and one ASM. They take 75 to 90 minutes. They are held on the last Wed of the month and are used to plan the upcoming month. All troop meeting plans are established - skills session instructors, service patrol (set up and tear down) Game patrol. They review past month activities, plan next month, make all troop meeting agendas for the next month, old and new business. Pretty straight forward. I could not imagine doing a 30 minute Green Bar before or after a meeting..... YIS, SM John

We institued a new meeting feature at the request of the senior scouts. First a little background 65 scouts of which troop meetings average 35 to 40 scouts, mostly junior scouts. I have 2 patrols of crossovers (14 boys) and 2 patrols of last years crossovers (16) The senior scouts have been griping about "camping with the little kids" and "been there, done that" so I called their bluff. We meet on Wed. nights, so, the first Wednesday of every month the senior scouts get a room to themselves to plan their own high adventure / extra curricular activity. Scouts must be 14 and 1st class to participate. They have their session during skills sessions and then during the patrol sessions, an ASM or I meet with them and "review" what they have been discussing and provide guidance as needed or asked. All participants must bring ideas to the table, develop, plan and execute their plans. Some ideas so far have been a 21 mile two night trip on the Applachian Trail, a trip to a TV and radio station, a guest speaker on finding a job and interview skills, a guest speaker on obtaining a drivers license, and a summer camp week at ranger school in Georgia for summer 2008 . There are several upsides to this 1. It is a carrot for the younger scouts 2. Senior scouts have 100% ownership of their program in which they will sink or swim on their own accord. 3. I am seeing more older scouts at meetings. Time will tell..... YIS, John

Lisabob, My scenario in the Patrol Realignment thread is similar. My SPL, the PL and I talked and it was decided to give them until the end of this year to get their act together. Knock of the bickering, everyone do their duty, no whining, no more BS at campouts, etc. The troop will not allow negative interactions of the few, to take away from the positive learning experiences and interactions of the many. Should it come down to it, the two patrol's in question (both crossed last year) are going to be divided by rank, ability, and skill. This will provide for more stratified patrols. It has been my experience that boys that no one else wants in their patrols are generally the one's who do not participate. Do you have enough of them to form their own patrol. Call them the Part Time Patrol - if you will. This would force one of them to take charge and step up. If a 3 of 8 has no interest in advancing, carry on, and generally are in scouts for camping I would make it clearly known to the few that that is not what the BSA is about. If they just want to go camping, tell them to ask their parents to take them. If they want to become better men today, tomorrow and next year, tell them to get with the program and stop wasting your time. This can also be addressed during Scout Spirit review. Not signing off on that once, twice, or three times will make them open their eye's. My two cents. YIS, John

ASM915, I forgot to elaborate on the other questions you had.... How large of a town and what kind of traffic flow are we talking about, small town, mid-size city? Pretty much your standard, suburban township. How many vehicles per hour? No clue but not extremely heavy traffic and not light either. Any drinks or just Hoagies? - Just hoagies Same meat or different kinds? All Italian. Never order them with oil because the rolls get soggy pretty fast. Be sure they are individually wrapped. How many scouts? Every location had a Field Leader or Cmte member and a parent but the intersection had four adults, one per corner. Ice cream place - 4 scouts Church - 5 scouts School parking lot 1 - 5 scouts School parking lot 2 - 4 scouts School parking lot 3 - 6 scouts Supermarket - 4 scouts Town Intersection - 8 scouts WHO MADE 900 HOAGIES FOR YOU ON SAT. MORNING? A local deli - they certainly are friendly, courteous and kind. I'm sure you could google and / or call around and find a similar deal in your neck of the woods. I am the SM and Fundraiser guy + I do sales and marketing for a living, so I get a little creative. The name of this event is called "Hoagie Mania". Give an event a name with "flair" and the boys just can't stay away. YIS, John

ASM915, They are made by a local deli. I don't know what time they get to work but it is probably the time the average scout falls asleep on a Friday night :-) Is your July festival during 4th of July festivities? Perhaps a craft booth tailored to patriotic items. Maybe run a woodworking MB in April / May and make Uncle Sam items, etc. Then have the scouts staff the booth and sell them. Just a thought. A race could be tough because I believe you have to pay for security, pay for police to block roads, etc I run a golf tournament in April for our troop. I call it St. George's Cup. In three weeks we will have our second one. Last year we had 78 golfers and 15 diners and we made over four grand. YIS, John(This message has been edited by JerseyJohn)

Steve, We tried a sit down once and it went over like a box of rocks. Lot's of prep work, many hours and about 800 net. For my troop anyway, they seem to require lot's of time. We do the hoagies because it is 1. Make a phone call to order X hoagies 2. Pick them up 3. Sell them 4. 4 hours - done We may try another sit down though - especially with the place mat idea ala longhaul Longhaul, I love the place mat idea......very creative Eagle90, Does your rummage sale basically go like this.... Hear ye, hear ye, bring out your dusty, good for nothing, stored away, unwrapped, never looked at again gifts and misc. products and donate them to the troop. The troop then sells all the goods and keeps 100% of the profit???? YIS, John

Just sharing what we did and how we did it in case you may want to emulate. I scouted out multiple locations in our township that allowed for a drive thru hoagie sale. They were primarily school and church parking lots, plus an ice cream shop, and an ACME supermarket. I received permission from the onwner of each location. We had signs printed (a scout Dad is a printer) and laminated them for future use. The signs were mounted to "election sign" metal frames. We posted the signs like the 1950's barbasol signs that were read as drivers came up to road toward the "drive thru's" In order of appearance to the drivers the signs read Boy Scout Hoagie Sale Ten Inch Hoagies Drive Thru EZ On / EZ Out $4.00 / Thank You The boys were in position at 10:15am and all were back at 13:30. We bought 900 hoagies for 2.50 and sold out. Worked for us. YIS, John

Since we are off the original topic, I will chime in on the new one.... Patrols are autonomous but they do, and must report to h igher authority. Not necessarily for direction, but for advice and guidance. Analogies - SURE Military A patrol may operate independently, in a manner they deem fit to get the mission done, given the mission they accepted or were tasked to do. THe SPL is the General, the SM is the Chaimrman of the joint chiefs, and the ASM's are the Chief of Staff Business unit A patrol operates to get the job done in manner they seem fit but are held accountable for their sucess or failure. The SPL may be the PResident or owner of the business, but he must fill in the Board (SM and ASM's) One need not get into all the details to lead, only see that the mission is accomplished. YIS, John

I would add the following two merit badges to Eagle Required Entrepreneurship With this MB as a prerequisite to American Business American Business Alter Req #5 to be organizing and running a troop fundraiser ________________ We expect them to contribute and pay their way. This provides a tool to do so. It also take the mysticism and magic out of business. Young men (and adults)see business as a lucky break, when in fact it generally is not. With offshoring, outsourcing, etc, etc, it is in ones best long term interest to work for themselves - providing they can find somehting practicial to make a go of it. Running a troop fundraiser is a great way to introduce them to haow business operates and provides a revenus stream of sorts for the troop. YIS, John (This message has been edited by JerseyJohn)