jerryz

Mark Thanks for the input and encouragement. Our Council is tough on tour permits as well. Even though we have a scout who prepares them, we still have adults who review, sign and submit them to the Council office. The big key is that the scout is responsible for preparation. I agree with your comments that ASMs are technically not on the committee. Many of our ASMs attend the committee meeting each month. They are primarily involved in the troop program and do not have a vote on the committee. Fortunately, we have enough other adults to conduct BOR's. I'm considering having a periodic meeting with the ASM's (perhaps monthly) to review just the program. The committee tends to get bogged down in support stuff like maintaining our troop bus, insurance, fund raisers, etc. I think having a separate meeting focused on the troop program and scouts needs would be a more appropriate use of ASM and SM time. Thanks again. Jerry

Bob Let me give some background as to why I'm inquiring about the job descriptions. Our troop has come to the conclusion that there are really only two jobs we as adults must perform: Signing forms & checks as required by BSA policy Driving to and from activities Everything else can be delegated to the scouts, as their skills and desires dictate. In our troop, we have really been striving for this to happen. We have scouts who prepare tour permits, permission slips, keep and post records to Troopmaster software, track troop equipment, maintain our web site, etc. Many times, these scouts need supervision and guidance when they run into situations beyond their ability to deal with. In my experience, boys sometimes need close attention in fulfilling their junior leadership position. While I have a primary responsibility for their training, the ongoing operation of the troop sometimes warrants more attention than I can give a specific patrol leader. (We have 7 patrols and over 50 scouts) During meetings and outings, I have done a poor job of organizing adult Asst SM's since most questions and problems come to me while the Asst's spend their time in a group. In addition, part of the core mission of our troop (and BSA) is "to prepare them to make ethical choices over their life time". In light of this, I strongly believe that each patrol should have an adult role model who can help them think about the ethical choices they have to make in their patrol, on the next outing, etc. They also become a resource to the patrol leader (much as I am to the SPL) in preparing for Patrol meetings and in leading their patrols. While some of the positions outlined in my original post could be termed "committee" positions, most require direct interface with boys and the program. Many of our committee members are also Asst SM's who have been trained and are willing to wear the uniform. Most of the others on the committee are not willing to put in enough time to really guide the quartermaster, for example, on the acquisition, control and maintenance of troop equipment. This is something that I feel more comfortable in having an Asst SM who is involved in the program to work with the QM and ASPL. Finally, I believe that one of the SM's most important functions is to be a "keeper of the flame" of the mission and vision of BSA in his troop. To be effective, I think a SM in a larger troop such as mine must delegate duties (but not responsibilities) to other SM to enable him to devote his time to the program and scouts. I would agree with Saltheart that we should try to utilize the interests and skils of adults who volunteer. But I see a need to give more structure and purpose to an adult who volunteers.

I'm in the process of delegating specific duties to my assistant scoutmasters. I plan to have positions such as: ASM - New Scouts ASM - Patrol Advisor ASM - High Adventure ASM - Equipment ASM - Records ASM - Camping etc. Does anyone currently have written job descriptions for positions like these that you could share? I'd be interested in how others have organized their assistants to support the youth scout leaders in leading the troop. Thanks

We have used the Eureka Timberline tents for all of our camping. This summer, we even took them to Philmont, sleeping 3 16-year olds in each tent. These tents put up with a lot of abuse and we have found them very reliable.

These are all great leads. I intend to follow up on all of them. I'd forgotten about some of the old training videos. Keep the ideas coming. JZ

In addition to the JLT kit put out by BSA, can anyone suggest other resources we can use in training our scouts. In a couple of weeks, we are going to conduct a Leadership Development Conference for our troop. We have sent formal invitations to all scouts 13 and over who are First Class. The event will be held at a conference center in town. Each scout will have a binder provided that is tabbed and organized with the agenda, troop handbook, organization chart, job descriptions and forms. In addition, at the end of the conference, I will ask each scout to complete a Personal Growth Agreement and submit it to me where they outline goals and commitments they want to make for the next year. In the past, I've used the JLT kit with good results. My problem is that it doesn't go far enough. The kit is fine as far as the overview, team building and basic skills. The council JLT course (of which I support wholeheartedly and have sent many scouts) is also good at doing an intensive job of the same. However, I want to provide more position specific material and problem solving skills for our scouts. We plan to present scouts with situations and practical problems that they are likely to face in the next year. We will break the scouts into smaller groups to discuss and present a solution to the bigger group. These smaller groups will be facilitated by older scouts (JASM, Eagles) as well as young s (18-21). Any ideas related to topics or format would be appreciated. I'm also interested in any ideas or resources that could be used to conduct job-specific training with each position would be appreciated as well. Upon conclusion of our conference, I would be glad to provide a sample packet and materials we used to anyone who is interested.

Jerryz, you are not doing this boy or his family a favor by sweeping it under the rug. My experience with this type behavior, which includes other scouts, 2 sons with ADD, and 1 son with ADHD tells me that this boy now sees no, or little, consequence for this type behavior, if both you, his SM, and his father can explain it away. Silver-shark In no way did this incident get swept under the rug. On the contrary, I was concerned that I could be making too much of a deal of it. None of the adult leaders, including myself and the boy's father attempted to explain anything away. In fact, the boy's father was extremely upset and as shocked as were the other adults. He had little to say than to apologize for his son's behavior. As for the boy, I believe he really appreciates the gravity of the stupid thing he did. He just crossed over three months ago and is only 11 years old. Having to sit with me in a SM conference terrified him. He was sure that I was going to throw the book at him. However, I let our troop's mission statement guide my actions as SM: "The mission of our troop is to prepare young men to make ethical choices based on the values in the Scout Oath and Law and to develop skilled leaders who encourage others to do the same." With these words, I tried to use this as a learning experience for the boy. I'm not qualified as a professsional counselor, and I'll leave that job to the professionals. If anything, this incident has made me and the other adult leaders more aware of his problem and how to deal with him in the future. As his SM, I can help this boy to see the error of his ways and to model his behavior on the Scout Oath and Law. The punishment for this boy was enough to get his attention, I'm sure. As for removing the future threat, I hope that it works in this case. But I'm sure that there will be another situation, perhaps with this boy or another, that will test the line again. While we as adult leaders strive to make Scouting a "safe place", we cannot guarantee that. We can only do our best. It is my goal to help our scouts to achieve their potential as young men and to strive to become better, learning through their mistakes.

This is what our troop is doing for older scouts. We realized two years ago that we needed to do something to hold the attraction of the older scouts. I've pasted below a copy of a writeup that describes what our committee approved and is now working. In reality, this has evolved into an annual high adventure trip. Last year we went to Sea Base, this year Philmont, next year Northern Tier, then to National Jamboree. It gives the scouts something to look forward to, to plan and prepare for, to give direction to. It has really re-kindled the interests of our older scouts. Purpose The purpose of the Troop 243 High Adventure Patrol is to enhance troop membership retention by providing exciting activities for older scouts and adult members of Troop 243. Organization / Structure A leadership team of 2 adults and 2 youth members would be the group directing and planning all High Adventure Patrol activities. The youth members can select their representatives, from those planning to attend the next major activity. The youth members could use this as a Troop Leadership position (High Adventure Patrol Chief). The Troop Committee will appoint the adult leaders. At least one of the two adults must be over 21 years old. The adults will carry the title of High Adventure Advisor. The terms of the planning team would extend to one month after the major activity, when the next group would take over. The troop committee must approve all activities and plans. The High Adventure Patrol will report directly to the troop committee, but must coordinate their activities with the Scoutmaster, the Senior Patrol Leader and the Patrol Leaders Council, so there are no conflicts. Since the purpose of the High Adventure Patrol is to enhance the troop, the High Adventure Patrol will not be registered as a separate Venture unit. Membership Requirements: Only registered members of Boy Scout Troop 243 (youth or adult), can become members of the Troop 243 High Adventure Patrol. Scouts remain members of a regular troop patrol and continue to hold troop leadership positions. Scouts must be at least 14 years of age, to participate in one of the High Adventure Patrol outings (note: Sometimes the activity itself may establish an even higher age limit). Scouts could actually join the crew, to participate in preparations, at age 14, as long as they meet the age requirement at the time of the targeted activity. Scouts must be at least Life rank. Scouts who are 15 years of age and are at least Star rank, and are active in the troop may also participate in the High Adventure Patrol. Scouts must be active members of troop 243, where active is defined as: a. Attending at least half of troop meetings and troop campouts (Membership in the High Adventure Patrol is terminated after enough unexcused absences, that the Scoutmaster, and High Adventure Patrol Leadership team agree that the scout is no longer active). b. Wearing the appropriate Scout Uniform correctly to the troop meetings and activities c. Having a positive attitude towards the troop and the troop leadership. d. Actively participating in troop fundraising. e. Actively participate in troop service projects f. Hold a troop leadership position (an elected position or one appointed by either the SPL or the Scoutmaster) at least 6 months out of every 12 month period of time No rank minimum for adults (using the adult definition of age 18 and over). Adults must be registered adult leaders of troop 243. Adults must be active members of troop 243, where active is defined as: a. Having a leadership position within the troop and fulfilling all of the responsibility of that position (examples: Troop treasurer, Bus Chairman, Tree Sale Electrician, Wreath Sale Chairman, Flower Sale Chairman, Assistant Scoutmaster). b. Having a positive attitude c. Set the example by living the Scout Oath and Law. d. Attend Basic Scout Leader Training. e. If leadership position is Assistant Scoutmaster, Assist the Scoutmaster by fulfilling a position of responsibility that contributes to the overall troop program. Examples: Patrol advisor, attending nearly every troop meeting. Troop Merit Badge Counselor, teaching 1 to 3 merit badges per year, as part of the troop program. Advisor to new scout patrol, attending nearly every troop meeting. f. Wearing the Scout Uniform correctly to the meetings and activities. g. If an adult member is attending an out of town college, some level of troop participation should occur in order to participate in the High Adventure Patrol, but the troop committee should not expect them to be as active as someone living in Louisville. For youth members, the Scoutmaster and the High Adventure Patrol Leadership team make the final decision on who can participate in the High Adventure Patrol. For adults, the Troop Committee makes the final decision on who can participate in the High Adventure Patrol. Guiding Principles: The High Adventure Patrol is an extension of the scout troop, and as such would adhere to the aims and ideals of scouting. Every member is expected to behave as a scout, following the scout oath and law in all their participation in both High Adventure Patrol and troop activities. The adult leaders should be knowledgeable and qualified adult leaders. They must attend scout leader basic training and preferably even Woodbadge. All rules specified in the Guide To Safe Scouting will be followed. This ensures the safety of the participants and helps protect the adult leaders and the sponsoring organization from any liability issues. Program Planning (Conflict Avoidance) The Troop's resources are to be shared between the High Adventure Patrol and the Troop. The Scoutmaster, Senior Patrol Leader and PLC should meet annually, usually in August after the Council's annual program preview meeting, to plan the troop's annual calendar. If the dates of future High Adventure outings are already established (Philmont, Sea Base, Northern Tier, etc.), troop activities should be scheduled to avoid conflicts. The troop's annual calendar should include dates for monthly campouts, weekly troop meetings and any known fund raising activities or service projects. Once the Troop's annual calendar is established, the High Adventure Patrol should meet to plan its annual calendar, which would establish dates for it's meetings and outings. The High Adventure Patrol should not establish a schedule which conflicts with the troop's schedule. The Troop Committee must approve both the troop and High Adventure Patrol calendar. The annual calendars established by both groups receive priority for troop equipment (Bus, Tents, Patrol Gear). If a conflict arises (due to something being rescheduled) which cannot be resolved, the original annual calendars should be used to establish priority. Money Matters There will only be one set of bank accounts (one for troop funds and one for the "Scout Accounts"). There will not be a High Adventure Patrol bank account. Troop and High Adventure Patrol outings should be planned as zero cost to the troop. Participants should be charged sufficient fees so that the troop does not have to pay for anything other than the adult expenses explained below. Adults can have accounts in the troop's "Scout Account" system, with funds they earn by working at troop fundraising, deposited in their name. Note: Adults can also choose to have their share deposited in their son's scout account. For high adventure activities, the adult should pay the actual costs of whatever fees they incur. Example. Philmont Fees, Plane Fares. For weekend activities (troop or High Adventure Patrol), the full time adult leaders (Scoutmaster, High Adventure Advisors, full time Assistant Scoutmasters, full time committee members), the troop will pay for troop bus transportation and food. The adult must pay extra fees like canoe rental, extra patches, attraction admission, t-shirts. The remainder of the Troop 243 Financial Policy will apply to High Adventure Patrol Scouts as well as other scouts registered in the troop.

Bob, I have had three of my sons attend JLT conducted by our council. In all cases, it was a turning point in their scouting career. Two went on to become Eagles and the other is nearly there. They all enjoyed the fact that the course was really run by the scouts, taught by the scouts, etc. They saw scouting as it was supposed to be done. JLT has motivated them out of the doldrums many 14-15 year olds in my experience fall into. After attending JLT, they wanted to go back and serve on staff. There's an old saying that you learn more when you teach than when you are a student. This has really been true for my sons. Last month, my middle son served on staff for both courses put on by our council. At the second course, the National BSA staff were observing since it was the first pilot of the new JLT curriculum (following roughly the same type format as Woodbadge). My son received great reviews and was invited to serve on national staff next year at Philmont. I have sent a number of our scouts through the course and have rarely been disappointed. Most bring back a much more positive attitude and great ideas. It is my hope to eventually get every scout in our troop to attend. The course is tremendous in teaching leadership skills and methods to scouts. The JLT kit provided by National for Troop JLT is good at building team spirit. However, both are lacking in providing job specific training - i.e. SPL, PL ,etc. I realize that as SM that is my job, but it would seem that there should be more available as resource tools.

Thanks for all of the input. Here is how I've handled the situation. First, some additional background: I met with my committee and received their input on how to address the situation. Several of you pointed out that our primary purpose as adult volunteers is to a) train the youth and b) to provide a safe place. This was the bottom line for our committee members. Since there was no actual threat to any scout, but just a stupid decision, they felt it did not warrant suspension or dismissal from the troop. They entrusted the final decision to me. Next I met with both sets of parents to calmly review the facts. The boy who flashed the knife (we'll call him John) has ADHD, but is not medicated, on the advice of his psychologist. His father is one of my ASM's who crossed over with his son 3 months ago. He has already completed Woodbadge and was horrified that his son would do something this stupid. "John" had just earned his totin chit that afternoon. Both myself and his father had specifically addressed the fact that a knife is a tool and not a play thing. However, the boy just made a bad decision - a rather foolish and immature decision. He was in the dark whittling on a walking stick to give his dad. Using a knife in the dark itself was not a smart idea. The boy who was the victim (we'll call him Joe) was understandably frightened (also just crossed over 3 months ago). However, after he settled down, he realized that John was just trying to scare him and to get a laugh (or attention). His parents wanted some "flesh". They started out wanting to know why the incident had not been reported to authorities and wanting John to be kicked out of the troop. I explained that while John's actions were certainly ill-advised and inappropriate behavior, that there was no harm done nor intended. (Their son Joe was quite willing to forgive and forget and move on) I then explained the what the consequences of John's actions would be. First, he is being placed on probation for three months. In our troop, this means that another serious infraction will result in his dismissal from the troop. Second, during his probation, he will not be allowed to carry or use a knife, axe or saw. Third, he will work to re-earn his totin chip and will be charged to make a presentation to his patrol on wood's tools safety. In meeting with John, I found him to be truly sorry that he hurt Joe and now regrets the decision he made. Hopefully he will learn from this situation. I have left any other "punishment" to his parents. John's parents required John to write a personal letter of apology to Joe, his parents and to me, asking for their forgiveness. In addition, John's parents took him to his psychologist to discuss this incident. The psychologist has determined that John is not a threat but simply made an impulsive, immature action. They are currently re-evaluating whether medication may be of some help to John. Joe's parents, as the discussion progressed, softened quite a bit. We found that they also had 2 other children with ADHD. The were quite emphathatic with John' parents. They found much common ground. I invited one or both to come along on our next several outings to witness for themselves the level of safety that we provide for the scouts. They seemed greatly relieved and indicated that Joe really liked our troop and they will allow him to stay. All in all, the discussion proved to be one of healing. Thanks again for the ideas and input.

I'm a CPA who specializes in financial planning and investment management. I was a scout as a youth and welcomed the opportunity to get back involved when my sons joined scouting. Currently serving as SM for a troop of 45 youth.

During summer camp last week, one of our new scouts jumped out from behind a tree at night flashing a knife at another new scout, who was understandably terrified. The scout with the knife, the son of one of our ASM's, had previously earned his totin' chip. After initially denying that he had a knife, he later admitted that he did, and that the whole incident was just a joke, intended to "scare" the other scout. This boy has attention deficit disorder and memory problems, but is not under medication. He has been seeing a qualified psychologist for several years for this problem, however. He showed remorse for his immature actions and apologized to the other scout, who was still very shaken up. The scout's knife and totin chip were immediately taken away and he was told that further action would be taken upon our return home. Upon returning home, the parents of the scout who was "surprised" were called to inform them of this incident. They were outraged and were surprised that the incident was not reported to police. They expressed concern that they could ever trust us to take their son anywhere again. They believe the offending scout, whom they believe to be a lunatic should be kicked out of the troop since he is a bad influence on the others. They have agreed to a meeting to discuss this situation. At this point, I intend to meet with the parents, along with the offending scout's father (ASM) and another ASM. I do not plan to dismiss the scout from the troop, since I believe he did not intend to harm and was immature. I do plan to discipline him in some way and hopefully use this incident as a learning experience. What advice/action would you take in this situation. (This message has been edited by jerryz)

(This message has been edited by jerryz)