Jeffrey H

"I have posted and stated many times how irked I am about families requesting assistance. I just recently refused to sign a financial aid application for a scout to go to the jamboree. Why because he got an Iphone 5 a couple of weeks prior. device and service for a year cost more than the jambo would. Choices...... Doesn't sound like he needs financial assistance does it? But his parents need financial counseling." In our Cub Pack this year, we have a record number of folks requesting financial assistance for free uniforms provided by the Council. The problem I have with the program is the application process is loose with little evidence required to prove real financial hardship. Sometimes I wonder because the lifestyles I see do not always match up with the financial assistance being claimed. However, I'm not the judge or jury on these situations - If they fill out their forms properly with their required information, then the rest is up to the Council. I do get annoyed at times because income is not always the issue. It's poor spending choices because folks don't make a home budget. I do get annoyed sometimes. I see too many folks, like myself, on modest incomes with 2 to 3 children forking over the cash to pay for scouting and the thought of asking for assistance does not cross our minds - Never. In reference to the OP, Troops should avoid doing family campouts. It's not scouting and certainly not the patrol method. Maybe, only maybe, a annual family campout could be scheduled as a way to build relationships but otherwise I would not make them a normal part of the Troop program. Scouts need to be alone with their patrol buddies and learning to be self-reliant and building confidence in their outdoor skills and abilities.

Our Pack's philosophy on Due's is very similar to Fred8033. We will re-charter scouts that are active and work with their families if they have a financial hardship. In our situation, families with active scouts usually try to pay when they can. If we must send a reminder, the letters are quick and to the point with courteous language. If the dues situation becomes seriously delinquent, then we will send a reminder that "awards" will be withheld from the scout until arrangements can be made to bring the dues current. The cost of awards are covered from Dues so we can justify this action if necessary. Fortunately, taking this type of action is rare, very rare.

"The shoulder loops are much easier to recognize than position patches..." That's true. My lack of preference for the colored loops is the para-military look it gives the uniform. The BSA is not a military organization. Patriotic, Yes; Military, No. I do realize that some folks like the look. Change is hard and we have been used to the loops for the past 30 years. The first 70 years, loops did not exist.

I would prefer that we get rid of the colored loops; don't care for them. Simply use the position patch for the position you are holding.

Scouts uncool? It depends where you live and how scouting is perceived by the youth and your community. In my city, scouting is perceived favorably. Youth are self-concious about wearing the uniform and prefer to wear it as little as possible; it has an uncool factor for reasons which I will save for another discussion in the uniform section. At the same time, since scouting is highly regarded in my town, scouts have an easier time wearing the uniform because they generally get compliments for being part of a fine organization. The youth attitudes about wearing the uniform today are not much different than what they were when I was scout in the 70's. I enjoyed scouting but I only wore the uniform to scout meetings and events.

"...believe it was folks from Texas who told me that state law prohibits any adults at summer camp except for registered and background checked adults. It's been well over a year since I attended the conference, so I could have that wrong. But the point is that in some places, if your kid is doing activities with an organization like scouts, sports camp, church camp, etc., mom and pop can't just tag along. Documented members of the organization are the only folks who can go..." That is correct. In the State of Texas, Adults attending youth camps exceeding 72 hours in duration must be registered with their respective organizations and must have taken a "face-to-face" youth protection course. This includes all youth organizations including the Boys Scouts. The online version of YPT is not valid. This rule also extends to week-long Cub Day Camps. If you are a parent that plans to come out and spend the night, you must follow the same rules and be registered. If you want to avoid the rules, then you can just come out for a day visit. Weekend camping trips are generally exempt from this rule as it only applies to long-term camps exceeding 72 hours. Overall, this is not a big deal. The biggest challenge is to ensure that the face-to-face YPT is taken ahead of time because you can't do it at the last minute. Now, all that said, the scouts camps I've attended were already requiring that adults attending camp be registered with the BSA so this is not really anything new to us in our Council.

Answer to OP: 1) Yes 2) No 3) No I highly encourage families to subscribe but we do not require it. As a CM, I do pick up my son's Boy's Life and occassionally get some new ideas for outings or events. I do not believe that Boy's Life keeps boys in the program but serves simply as a supplement to the program. If you have an active program and the boys are having a good time, they will stay.

As a CM myself, I am usually at 90% of the Den and Pack Meetings. I'm always at the 2 or 3 campouts that we have each year. I have a son in the Bear Den but I'm not needed that much because they have good coverage with a DL and ADL. I admit, I don't have that much to do on den meeting nights but I make myself available to leaders and parents to provide support for questions or take care of administrative duties. Sometimes, I cover for our CC on paperwork if she cannot be there or I make an appearance at a Den Meeting to give out recoginitions or make a presentation. All that said, there is no requirement that I be at a Den Meeting unless I make a promise to be there to assist the Den Leader. "...No desire to be CM...seriously. Just a desire for competent adults to run a program and a position they volunteered for so DLs can go back to doing what they do best. Den Leading..." I had no desire to be the next CM also, but I am now. Funny how that works out. Being a CM is not hard. It's only hard if you are expected by your Pack to ba a "one-man" show with no help from the CC and DL's. I can tell you I would not be CM right now if that was expected of me. Like it or not, DL's are often the natural successors as the next CM because of their direct interaction with the cubs. Think about it...it could you if you care about your Pack. (This message has been edited by Jeffrey H)

If the BSA ceased to exist, Scouting would carry on. The Baden-Powell Association (BPA) would rise up as a larger organization no longer over-shadowed by the BSA. The BPA could probably begin legally using the name "Scouts" in their oganization name. If the Eagle Rank was eliminated (which will not happen), I think the BSA would decline. The Eagle Rank is widely recognized by the puclic, is not easy to earn, is considered prestigous, and has a long history. Taking that rank away would take away a big incentive for many of the boys involved with the BSA.

"...then will you realize just what a really terribly ugly uniform BSA is selling us... " This could explain why I have active adult volunteers that are happy to help but have no desire to wear the uniform. Cost is not the reason - they just think that the uniform is for the boys and they will look silly in it. I admit not everyone is comfortable wearing shirts with big flasy patches on it. Just my two cents: I don't think the uniform is ugly but agree that it does not appeal to everyone. One change I would make would be to get rid of the epaulettes on the shirt since they mimic the military too much and looks silly. "..I'd like to see the scouts mimic the military uniforms. A shirt for summer, an outer jacket for the other three seasons. Separate outdoor gear from dress uniform..." You could do this at your unit level and make it work. Alot of units already do this to varying degrees with the exception of the outer jackets. If you live in colder climates, the outer jackets make sense. In the South, not so much.

"I've been to one "beading" ceremony - my father's. It was at a Troop Court of Honor and took all of 1 minute - he was called up, congratulated, had the beads slipped over his head, shook a couple hands, and sat back down." That's the way all adult recognitions should be. A Big Thank You, Recognition, and all within the space of one to two mintues. As a Cubmaster, I know first-hand that the boys and parents like to see leaders be recognized but I also realize adult recognitions can become boring very fast.

"I've been to one "beading" ceremony - my father's. It was at a Troop Court of Honor and took all of 1 minute - he was called up, congratulated, had the beads slipped over his head, shook a couple hands, and sat back down." That's the way all adult recognitions should be. A Big Thank You, Recognition, and all within the space of one to two mintues. As a Cubmaster, I know first-hand that the boys and parents like to see leaders be recognized but I also realize adult recognitions can become boring very fast.

Our Troop went there in 2010. It's a very nice camp and one of my favorites. Beautiful lake with a robust aquatic program and waterfront. If your boys are interested in plenty of options for water-based merit badges, this is the place. They even have motorboating. They have family-style dining which is different but nice - no lines, you simply go to your table and the scouts on KP duty will bring the food to your assigned table. I would agree with the above post that they were not very good with advancement records so be prepared for inaccuracies. Other than that, a great program overall. I did not see snakes but we were camped up on a hill above the lake where they were not as plentiful. That said, it is advisable to stay on the marked trails.

"Our pack does not do this, and quite frankly it seems ridiculous. Parents are bringing their own kids and are responsible for them. This would be a big hassle for someone for absolutely no apparent benefit..." This is our approach as well since parents are responsible for their own children and scouts. For Pack Family Camping, we file a Tour Permit but we don't mess with the Medical Forms and Release Forms. The only times we bring Health and Release Forms is at a BSA resident camp which always requires these forms at check-in. The other time is for Webelos Den Camping where we require Health/Release/Permission Forms for scouts attending without their parents.

You can have Pack Meeting and a Pack Activity at the same time. The pack activity can enhance and improve the pack meeting. There are no hard and fast rules on this. Simply do what works best for your Pack and keep it simple and make it fun.

We keep the planning for our Pack Campouts simple. We apply the same KISMIF logic to our Pack campouts that we do for our Den and Pack Meetings: Keep It Simple, Make It Fun. Everyone provides their own food and drinks for their own meals for the duration of their stay. We have one group meal together on Saturday evening where the Pack provides the essentials (hot dogs, burgers, buns, etc) for a cookout. Everyone is encouraged to bring a little extra to share with others. We avoid doing "group reservations" to avoid the burden of money collecting and frequent reminders to parents to meet group reservation deadlines. Everyone makes their own campsite reservations. Our families show up at different times during the weekend and we discovered that letting everyone take care of own reservations was much easier and more efficient. Keeping it simple also give us better flexibility to re-schedule a campout due to severe weather.

"It's quite noisy and at one point towards the end of a game it was like controlled chaos. " Sounds like alot of fun. Keep up the good work.

"...I think back to when I quit scouting as a youth... it was because I had discovered more "daring" things in life... Why when I camped with my family, I could drive the boat and tow my sister skiing, but at BSA I got a canoe or row boat? How come we could take the motorcross bike camping with us as a family, but at the same state campground on a scout outing, it wasn't allowed? How come on a winter campout with my dad (and my scoutmaster at the time), we could bow hunt wild turkey the entire weekend with compound bows and broadtip arrows. BSA camp we could shoot archery with a recurve at paper targets - Yea!.. " Yes, we need to get outdoors because that's what the boys want and what I enjoy as well. However, the motorboating, motorcrosss, and hunting experiences and skills described above are not typical for the average boy and adult. Camps can provide some of these, especially motorboating, but under a controlled environment so the boys can be allowed to safely learn something new. Can you imagine scouts being allowed to drive a motorboat with no experience or training? As a Cubmaster, I love the outdoors, but I can tell you that a scout becoming seriously injured is not something I want on my watch. The parents would appreciate my position as well. Once a serious injury occurs, the fun is over for everyone. You can go outdoors, have a great time, and be safe.(This message has been edited by Jeffrey H)

We find out the dates of "open house" or "meet the teacher" nights of 3 elementary schools and we go there in person, set up a small table with information, applications, and flyers. We secure the permission of the principals beforehand. We usually get a good response with interested folks taking applications and giving them the date of our next pack meeting. By far this our most effective way of recruiting. By my estimate, we signed-up about 15 boys using this method. Blindly sending out flyers to the boys does not work well for us - the schools have too many restrictions on how this is be done so we avoid that hassle. Face time with parents is most effective.

The biggest reason by far is scheduling conflicts with other activities. Another reason is simply lack of interest or expectations not met - they tried the program and it wasn't what they expected or wanted. Another dynamic is that some den leaders are simply better than others. The DL's that plan-ahead, are organized, employ some fun into their meetings, and move the boys along in their achievements tend to be the one with the best retention.

I don't like the "issue and politics" area as well even though I have posted there occassionally. It's a depressing area to visit. Alot of troll-like folks hang out there that probably hate Scouting and never have anything positive to say about it. For them, the BSA will never be right, everything is wrong all-the-time, everything is a conspiracy, and everything is a cover-up. I tire quickly of reading the "jaundiced" viewpoints including those that call themselves Scoutmasters. In many ways, it's a shameful place and I regret that I ever posted there. The biggest boost for me on this board is discussing programs, event ideas, camping ideas, Cub Scout ideas, Training, etc. You know what I'm talking about...the things that really matter to unit leaders like myself to make their programs fun and educational.

We do a general invitation to all of positions that are needed. Sometimes you get a response, sometimes not. The most effective way is a personal invitation to someone that you have targeted for a position. I just did this with a prospective Tiger Den Leader and he is showing interest. Even if he does not accept, I have at least conveyed to him that I believe he has leadership qualities that our Pack is looking for.

We charge $40 per year Pack Dues and collect the annual $15 registration/recharter fee. The Dues along with our fundraiser cover the cost of awards, patches, and pinewood derby cars during the program year. It also covers the cost of new handbooks and neckerchiefs when the boys graduate to new dens. If a scouts sells $200 of popcorn, then his dues are paid for. Uniforms, Boy's Life, Camping Events, Outings, etc. are all extra costs. Webelos earning their Arrow of Light are responsible for the cost of their "career arrows" or any other items they want to add. They decide at the den-level with their parents approval. The Pack pays for the cost of AoL Certificates and AoL patches. (This message has been edited by Jeffrey H)(This message has been edited by Jeffrey H)

Our dues are the same for every scout regardless of age-level. We keep it simple. We keep our dues low at $40 per year and folks get free dues if they sell $200 of popcorn. Webelos cost us a little more per scout but the numberous belt loops earned by the younger scouts tend to balance it out. Keep it simple and keep the books simple for easy transparent review by anyone. This way, when the next volunteer comes in to take over, there is not a mess to clean up.

"Hey folks, have you been seeing families dropping out due to National's reaffirmation of their membership standards? We've heard from about 8% of our families that said they weren't returning because of it..." I'm not aware of families leaving for this reason. The biggest reasons given to our Pack are scheduling conflicts with other activities. We had a strong response to our recent recruiting and we are expecting to sign-up many new scouts. In short, the re-affirmation of membership standards has had no noticeable effect in the area I live.