Jeffrey H

Check out thrift stores in your area. I have found some uniform shirts in good to excellent condition for about $3-$5 each. Our Pack has built up a uniform closet by doing this alone. I picked up an extra adult shirt for $3 bucks at a thrift store and it was in good condition with no stains. The uniform is pricey, but I expect to get many years of service out of one shirt. In that regard and the time I put into Scouting, it's really not that bad.

John, Look for my e-mail and we'll do a trade. --Jeff

gwd-scouter, No offense was intended. Actually, I would consider Boy Scout leaders to be the "superior", especially those that were once Cub Scout leaders. Several of them I consider mentors. --Jeff

"Lots of times its the blue tab leader getting the kids ready for red tab world as best as possible in 1 hour a week." Thank you. As a Den Leader & Assistant Cubmaster, my weekly den meetings along with other Pack meetings and events can become a little tiring by mid-season. Did I also mention Roundtable and the occassional Pack leaders meetings? Don't forget the training courses that we are asked to give up time for. We also have to endure restrictive rules about Cub camping that don't always make sense, but we follow them to the letter. Everything has to be planned and directed by parents that care enough about the cub program. It's all worth it to me, but I can understand how some den leaders and cubmasters get burned-out on the Cub program when they don't have adequate support from parents or assistants. Cub leaders are a different breed. We have no knots on our shirts and if we do earn any knots, we forget to turn in the paperwork. Why? Because it's not about the knots, it's about the boys. That said, I will admit that the knots are a little motivator to keep it going when things get a little tedious.

"Your DE is an idiot..." I wanted to say that earlier but I figure I better start this thread with a more polite tone. It is irritating to deal with unnecessary politics from the pros.

oldsm, My knee-jerk response would be to take them off. I agree that "inactives" should not be put on a published roster. That's a practical policy that makes sense. Adults that are not active do not deserve to be published as Troop Leadership. Remove them from the roster completely? Talk with your CC and active committee and set a policy on this matter. Ask the "inactives" if there is anything they are doing at the District, Council, or National Level that you may not be aware of.

It's Me, You might get a better response from the Boy Scouters if you took your question to the "Open Discussion" category. I'm not sure how many of them visit the Cub Scout forum to answer your concerns. From what I remember a looooong time ago as a boy scout, every single troop meeting was not exciting. Some were very fun and some were a more boring and business-like as we were looking forward to and getting ready for the many campouts on our calendar (BE PREPARED). The real fun for boy scouts are not the weekly meetings, but the monthly campouts that are planned ahead of time. Cub Scouts, if they camp, only camp a fraction of the amount that Boy Scouts do. That's why there is so much emphasis on FUN MEETINGS at the cub level because that's usually all the Den Leaders have to keep their interest.

If you are following the examples in the Program Helps, then you are on the right track. Using the Programs Helps is not required, but it shows your desire to put the boys on an solid program.

Does anybody from your pack (and those other packs) participate in district roundtable or other opportunities for you to get to know other pack leaders in a friendly environment? Thanks for the advice. We have anywhere from 2 to 3 that attend RT each month - usually the CM, ACM (myself), and a DL. We have friendly relationships with other Pack leaders and we support District events. When I mention "terriotories", I'm referring to a specific elementary school that has been assigned to us by our District. There are really no territories that belong to any Pack, just "gentleman's agreements" that we will not recruit at schools that are assigned to other Packs.

Our pack leadership has done a good job of recruiting new cub scouts this past year. We did this out of necessity because we were beginning to lose boys pretty fast. There is only one problem. Our DE thinks were are doing too good of a job recruiting and taking the life out of other Packs in the district. The DE is not happy because our success has cost one unit to fold and another one is on the brink. The CM and I were really annoyed by this assessment because our Pack does not recruit on other Packs territories and we do not recruit cubs away from other Packs. All of our recruiting was done within our charter organization (church) and one elementary school. If a cub comes to us from another Pack, he does it on his own initiative. We have no desire to see other Packs suffer, but wish them the best. We have about 50 active boys and Ill admit that sometimes the dynamics of a group our size causes boys from small dens to check us out. Two questions: 1) How does a Pack keep their recruiting from becoming too good? 2) How can the Cubmaster and leaders happily do their jobs and ignore the politics that tends to lower morale and take the joy out of serving? It seems its a darned if you do or darned if you dont

Ekmiranda, If your Scout has earned his badge, present it to him as soon as possible. In our Pack, we also like it when the boys earn their badge together, but we do not hold back a badge to any boy who earns it before anyone else. I wholeheartdly agree with you about teamwork and cooperation, but earning a badge is a personal effort that sould be recognized right away. As you stated, one of the purposes is "Personal Achievement". You mentioned the boys being "scattered around" in achieving their badge. Here's my approach to a little teamwork: At our first den meeting in September, I told the parents and boys that I would be like to see all of them to receive their Bear badge by the Blue & Gold banquet in February. Our Pack encourages all Dens to try to receive their badges by the B&G. To help the parents and boys, I gave them a "suggested plan of action" along with a few of the achievements we would work on together as a Den. Periodically, we would check our progress. If they didn't make it by the B&G, no big deal, but they were usually close to achieving it and will have plenty of time before crossover in May. We actually had one boy who earned his Bear Badge in September because he worked on it during the summer. He opted not to receive it until February with the other boys. That was his decision, not mine.

Gogators, Many good suggestions have already been given. How do the other adult leaders wear their uniforms? Do they take liberties on how the uniform is to be worn? If we take liberties in our uniforming, then others will feel free to do the same. OakTree had the best advice. Just quietly ask her to "button up" the shirt and leave at that. It may be possible that some leaders may not have said anything to her because they like what they see.

quoted by de4bsa: "This probably isn't going to come out right, but I couldn't care less about LFL. Why? Because my critical achievements (what a professional scouter is judged on) are all written to increase TRADITIONAL membership." No offense here. As a volunteer adult leader, when I hear membership numbers, I'm only interested in Cubs, Scouts, and Venturing. LFL is an entirely different youth program and most BSA volunteers share your sentiment. Quite frankly, I know very little to nothing about LFL. It's interesting how some folks are quick to add LFL to total BSA membership, but they never talk about LFL

Our Pack allows cars from previous years to race "unofficially". Their car will be timed with the rest but it will not qualify for any winning trophy. That said, we do not do any test to see if the boy is running the same car as last year. It's a matter of Scout's Honor. If the parent denies it was last year's car, then go with that. There is no way you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he is running last year's car based on a picture. There are no rules (that I'm aware of) that prohibit a scout from building a new car using the same design from the previous year. If the parent and scout are lying, let it be on their conscience (hopefully they have one). As Lisabob mentioned earlier, dedicate a den meeting or two for a "PWD Workshop" for those that don't have the tools, time, or skill to build a car.

I chuckle when I see those that are quick to FIRMLY correct those that dont call it by the right name, as if they spewing a vulgar word. Calling those in Venturing Venture Scouts is a common mistake but an understandable one. Venturing is considered part of the scouting program and its easy for folks to attach the word Scout to Venturing. Also, those that identify themselves as Venture Scouts are often mistaken for being a part of a Venturing Crew. We can thank the national office for the ongoing confusion. Folks that are in Scouting long enough will get it right (maybe), but the confusion will always be there for newbies and old-timers alike.

QUOTE: This is why a quality group of mature adults are needed in Scouting. It is an unfortunately slippery slope for some adults who have narrow definitions of morality and strict interpretations of the scout law. At some point we stop "building character" and we begin shoving character down their throats. Scouting is made of folks from different denominations and religions. Interpretation of the Scout Law will typically be filtered though an individuals religion. Narrow definitions of morality will exist, but so will broader definitions as well. I have yet to encounter any Scouter from more conservative/fundamental denominations to cram anything down my throat. They know the rules of Scouting and they respect the beliefs of others. Im sorry you are experiencing the opposite. I interpret the Scout Law within the framework of my religious beliefs. As a Christian, the Scout Law complements my faith and fits well in my understanding of duty to God and service to others. I dont force my religious understanding of the Scout Law upon others. QUOTE: The second example is a result of the very real Christian influence in the historical development of the BSA. But since the BSA continues to specifically allow all types of spirituality as long as an individual is able to follow all of BSA's other guidelines, I think that most people who are uncomfortable with this Christian influence should simply recognize the historical role of Christianity and accept it as a part of BSA's history. The history of Scouting is also the history of religion in the USA. All organizations are influenced by the religious beliefs and practices of its members. I personally dont like it when we appeal to the Great Scout Spirit at OA ceremonies, but I have to accept it as part of the BSAs history. Christianity may be influential in the BSA, but so are Native American references to a higher power. I would say there are just as many references to the generic Great Spirit than t

The lesson here is to drive safely at all times and have PERSONAL auto and health insurance. Be safe and use common sense. The Tour Permits remind us of this with a declaration. Get to know G2SS as a tool to mitigate our own ignorance about safety issues. The BSA will back a unit with their insurance in times of crisis, but they will cancel a charter if the unit has an unacceptable safety record in the Scouting program.

Prairie stated: remove visual clutter and raise functionablility. Good point. I dont have any objections to overall look of the uniform shirt, but I do think we over-decorate the shirt to point of ridiculous, especially adult leaders. An over-decorated shirt is NOT functional for active outdoor wear and certainly does not function as a field uniform. My proposal: Reduce the size of major patches (council, unit, position) to one-half of current size. They are too big and they scream out like a loud billboard. Remove the trained patch and the quality unit patch. Who really cares anyway? Nothing wrong with these recognitions, just not on the uniform. Limit the number of adult award knots to three. If you have more than three, wear only the ones that are most important to you. Limit the total number of patches on a uniform to about eight Council, Position, Unit, OA Lodge, Flag, and 3 Knots. The World Crest is a nice patch and will stay, but thats debatable was well. The whole idea is too keep the shirt looking like a field shirt and not junked up.

Requirements for Den Chief? A willing Boy Scout that really enjoys working with Cubs. They make fine assistants and can keep up with the Cubs better than we "old folks" can. If classroom training is not available, your Pack leadership can train them. Guidance on this in found in the Den Chief Handbook under Den Chief Service Award.

Events, campouts, advancements, BG, Pinewood Derby are all planned and run by the den leaders and Cubmaster. I know that this isn't "by the book", but, it is what we do. This is common and welcome to the "real world" of Cub Scouting. We had this problem last year with an inactive CC. This year, our CC is great along with a few parents in various committee roles. Committees don't happen. You have to ask. Parents won't step up unless you ask. If you want folks to show up for meetings, you need to tell them why it's important for them to be there and how they can make a positive difference.

With a few of the recent Eagles that I have seen come through, their Rank was obviously awarded for simply completing the requirements. The required "Scout Spirit" was apparantly overlooked or re-defined. I don't expect perfection, but I do expect an Eagle candidate to have good interpersonal skills with Adults and other Scouts. Look them in the eye when when talking (Courteous)and give a firm handshake. It's not that hard, but obviously a difficult task for some.

Now if we get that far to plan the event, and no one else is interested, even after repeated phone calls, and the Wolf families are the only ones going, is this considered pack camping? (Which is very likely to happen if we did this.) SpongeBob, Ive been in this situation a couple of times. Yes, in my opinion, it is considered Pack Camping if everyone (from Tiger to Webelos) in the Pack is invited and has an opportunity to participate. If it looks like the Wolf families are the only ones going, I would make sure that the Cubmaster and/or Assistant Cubmasters are attending so you will have Pack leadership involved, not just Den leadership. If the Den leaders are the only ones attending, then your campout will appear to be Den Camping. Again, this is my opinion. Consult with your UC or DE and get their advice based on what your council will allow.

"Thus I think it unwise to suggest that when the designated BALOO person leaves the premises, that the event suddenly changes in nature from pack to family. " I agree. But as I stated earlier, once the campout is underway you can't make the parents leave the camp, especially if they have already paid their money for their campsite at a fee-based facility (e.g., State Park). Don't forget other expeses they incurred to be there in order to support the Pack. The best that any leader can do is simply imform everyone that the campout is canceled including all planned activities on the agenda - including the "campfire". Some will get bored and go home, others that enjoy the outdoors will stay.

The Cub Scout Outdoor Program Guidelines (13-631C) refers to "family camping" as a Council-sponsored event. Thanks for information. That clarifies things greatly for me. The BSA needs to include that clarification of "family camping" in G2SS. G2SS gives the impression that you can go anywhere you want whenever you want. Many concientious leaders use G2SS as the authoritative guide for following the rules and as are not always aware of other publications.

"Making the campout event into a family event just because a BALOO trained person is not available is not the right way and isn't what we should be teaching the kids." Family Camping is allowed by the Guide to Safe Scouting. There is a full paragraph on it and many Packs leverage it. Because it is allowed, it has also created much confusion between what is considered a Pack Overnighter and what is considered Family Camping. Family camping says nothing about having a BALOO trained adult. From G2SS: Family camping: an outdoor camping experience, other than resident camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program elements in overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection guidelines apply.