Jcfraz

NJ, Thank you for your response and your past responses. I really appriciate your help. -Jcfraz

The reason I don't say the pledge is because; a.It was written by a socialist: Francis Bellamy b.Our nation isn't,"indivisible" c.* d.A citzen doesn't need a pledge to there country's flag to prove there patriotism *it can not be enforced because people that don't want to say it, that have to, can't be forced to mean it. And if they don't, what's the point??? -Jcfraz

Mr. Mori, I understand what you mean... What I was trying to say is that(sad to say) our nation, in the Way it uses God's name, says that everyone who has a religion can say the pledge becuase were talking about everybodies god. I don't have any ploblem whatsoever saying; under God. As Acco said, a citizen shouldn't have to say the pledge to prove their patriotism. -Jcfraz

Mr. Mori- I'm Very sorry for the response I posted accusing you of cussing, I didn't realize you were quoting someone.(By the way, who were you quoting?) No, my problem isn't with saying "One Nation, Under God". Our Nation was founded on Biblical principals, but our country doen't support Christianity like it did then. I'm sorry I didn't say, the article I posted is not something I wrote; it's an editorial my dad wrote. God is Soverign, Jcfraz

In the reply you used the word "s***". Wait , Mr. Mori. Whos got scout spirit: the person cussing, or the person who is just trying to stay in scouts without violating his convictions??? And to answer your question, I'm not refusing to say the pledge because I don't want to say "under God". Please read the article I posted entitled "one nation under God, indiviable", really.

No, I'm not just trying to come up with somthing to fight about. My family and i just don't believe that the pledge it right, or nessasary to say. thanks,Jcfraz

"One nation, under God, indivisible..." Really? The current debate over the pledge of allegiance is an interesting one. Theres more to the discussion than most are aware. Back in 1892, the 400th anniversary of Columbus discovery of America, a man named Francis Bellamy penned the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States. Bellamys purpose? Well, the Baptist pastor and open socialist had one goal in mind: to promote a fanatic nationalism in young children and adults alike. That is, a sentiment toward the state, our federal government, of unwavering devotion. But, government, rightly understood, is our servant not our master. At least that was the design of the framers who were grounded in this biblical concept. However Bellamy, who was later defrocked for his rabid socialist activism, thought he had a better notion. So did the National Education Association, who made him a prominent leader of their march to conform all children, and their parents, to the goals championed by Horace Mann, Robert Owen, and later by Thomas Dewey: to have the government educate all children in order that we have a nation of people who would think and act alike. The pledge was a step in the right direction. As the country happily embraced the idea of government teaching their children, the general attitude of the culture naturally began to shift toward more government dependency, and away from reliance on the freedoms and liberties given us by God. In 1954 the words under God were added to the pledge, but the damage had been done. Those two words could not sanitize the mantra of Bellamy and the clamoring culture that had warmly embraced it. We wanted more, and we got it. Ten years later the Bible and prayer were taken out of the government schools. The government taking over healthcare for older Americans soon followed. A few years later the government sanctioned the murder of innocent unborn children. Soon to follow were other fruits from the halls of government learning: celebration of sodomy, sanctioning of Wiccan services (devil worship) on military bases, and the redefining of almost everything we used to hold dear; toleration was sanctified while the church has remained predominantly silent. Two other words deserve our attention: nationalism and patriotism. Nationalism is the worship of the state, looking not only to the state for all perceived needs, but defending most any action or claim of power that it decrees. Patriotism is the worship of the God of the Bible set in action within a country: defending life, liberty and property against tyranny from government, both at home and abroad. Our patriots wrote, Governments... [derive] their just powers from the consent of the governed. The Declaration of Independence also rightly notes that when Government becomes destructive of these Ends (as did the British Crown), it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new Government...as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Im not advocating secession, but by declaring our once great republic as one nation ...indivisible confines us to the whims of the state. Thanks to the Constitution, every 2 years we have the opportunity to change government. A free people understand freedom, government subjects understand only what the government gives them. Ideas have consequences. No, adding the words Under God can not sanitize the pledge of allegiance to the state. In God We Trust embossed on our copper-nickel coins or printed on our fiat notes can not hide their inherent worthlessness. And putting prayer back into government schools will not redeem them, neither will vouchers. Looking for salvation through state dedication, inflation, education or medication can not save a country that has lost its soul. These faulty concepts were not birthed in the cradle of liberty, but in the halls of humanism. The United States are in need of redemption. My prayer is that these ideas will awaken a nation in love with itself and stir it to join me in repentance and restoration. Let us secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, recognizing that only our triune God is indivisible. He alone is the author of life, liberty, and justice. He and His standards alone are worthy of our allegiance.

Thanks for your help. First off, I'm not a Quaker,(I'm a Presbytirian) I just don't believe in saying an oath to a flag. I also don't believe that our country is (as the pledge says,) indivisible. If the BSA will waver that for the Quakers, I hope they will understand my positian. Yes, I have done the req. that says to say the pledge. I'm just trying to get past that without having to say the pledge, (THERE"S JUST GOTTA BE A WAY!)

Thank you everyone for your responses. They have all been helpfull. My current situation is that I will be 1st class soon but when My scout master found out Saying the pledge is aigainst my religios beliefs he questioned my qualifications to pass any ranks at all! If any one kn ows about anything that says I couldn't please tell me. -Jcfraz

should Boy Scouts have to say the pledge to pass in rank?

"One nation, under God, indivisible..." Really? The current debate over the pledge of allegiance is an interesting one. Theres more to the discussion than most are aware. Back in 1892, the 400th anniversary of Columbus discovery of America, a man named Francis Bellamy penned the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States. Bellamys purpose? Well, the Baptist pastor and open socialist had one goal in mind: to promote a fanatic nationalism in young children and adults alike. That is, a sentiment toward the state, our federal government, of unwavering devotion. But, government, rightly understood, is our servant not our master. At least that was the design of the framers who were grounded in this biblical concept. However Bellamy, who was later defrocked for his rabid socialist activism, thought he had a better notion. So did the National Education Association, who made him a prominent leader of their march to conform all children, and their parents, to the goals championed by Horace Mann, Robert Owen, and later by Thomas Dewey: to have the government educate all children in order that we have a nation of people who would think and act alike. The pledge was a step in the right direction. As the country happily embraced the idea of government teaching their children, the general attitude of the culture naturally began to shift toward more government dependency, and away from reliance on the freedoms and liberties given us by God. In 1954 the words under God were added to the pledge, but the damage had been done. Those two words could not sanitize the mantra of Bellamy and the clamoring culture that had warmly embraced it. We wanted more, and we got it. Ten years later the Bible and prayer were taken out of the government schools. The government taking over healthcare for older Americans soon followed. A few years later the government sanctioned the murder of innocent unborn children. Soon to follow were other fruits from the halls of government learning: celebration of sodomy, sanctioning of Wiccan services (devil worship) on military bases, and the redefining of almost everything we used to hold dear; toleration was sanctified while the church has remained predominantly silent. Two other words deserve our attention: nationalism and patriotism. Nationalism is the worship of the state, looking not only to the state for all perceived needs, but defending most any action or claim of power that it decrees. Patriotism is the worship of the God of the Bible set in action within a country: defending life, liberty and property against tyranny from government, both at home and abroad. Our patriots wrote, Governments... [derive] their just powers from the consent of the governed. The Declaration of Independence also rightly notes that when Government becomes destructive of these Ends (as did the British Crown), it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new Government...as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Im not advocating secession, but by declaring our once great republic as one nation ...indivisible confines us to the whims of the state. Thanks to the Constitution, every 2 years we have the opportunity to change government. A free people understand freedom, government subjects understand only what the government gives them. Ideas have consequences. No, adding the words Under God can not sanitize the pledge of allegiance to the state. In God We Trust embossed on our copper-nickel coins or printed on our fiat notes can not hide their inherent worthlessness. And putting prayer back into government schools will not redeem them, neither will vouchers. Looking for salvation through state dedication, inflation, education or medication can not save a country that has lost its soul. These faulty concepts were not birthed in the cradle of liberty, but in the halls of humanism. The United States are in need of redemption. My prayer is that these ideas will awaken a nation in love with itself and stir it to join me in repentance and restoration. Let us secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, recognizing that only our triune God is indivisible. He alone is the author of life, liberty, and justice. He and His standards alone are worthy of our allegiance.