Stosh

Whereas no one ever teaches young boys wrong habits, somehow they always seem to pick up those things from their older counterparts. Learning good things isn't as exciting as learning bad things. Mumbledy peg anyone?

Don'tcha just love it when adults run the show? Seriously folks? the Webelos boys don't care as long as they get to go into the new troops. Sure, it would be nice, but is it necessary. Lay out an imaginary "bridge" on the floor if one doesn't have one. Put the two troops on one end and the pack on the other. The parents and Cub come up to the CM who stands at the foot of the bridge and takes the boy's necker off, hands it to the parents and shakes the boy's hand with the cub hand shake, thanks him for being a We be Loyal Scouts (Webelos) and let him know his journey is only halfway done and the really exciting part is yet to come. He then sends him over the bridge where he goes to the SPL of the troop he will be joining (leaving his parents on the Cub side ). He receives his new necker, Boy Scout hand shakes the troop members and his welcomed him into the troop. Repeat as needed for each scout. The CM can personalize his comments for each of the boys and for their accomplishments. Nothing scripted, nothing dramatic, just a sincere celebration. There can be no "mistakes" in the ceremony because everything comes from the heart. In the long run, what's the boy going to remember about his cross-over? The well wishes of the CM and the welcome of the new troop. End of discussion.

Maybe the boys need to use the EDGE method to teach how to use references. I find that especially when teaching the S->FC skills that making references to the handbook, the boys then get reinforced that if one uses the handbook for the Scout rank, it also applies to TF, SC and FC as well. I am disappointed in the fact that the new SB does not show pages in the HB that show the boys where to go to find the material to study and learn before coming to the lesson. If they do, it really speeds up the learning process if the boys Be Prepared BEFORE they are instructed. By emphasizing this when it comes time to learn the requirement, the references can be, "Did you check out YouTube about starting fires with flint and steel? or did you check out www.cooking.com for some ideas about what you might want on your menus? These aren't really instructional references to support what is being taught, but they might inspire the boys to "dig a little deeper" into the subject matter.

It might help @@Tampa Turtle if you didn't let your dog over-indulge on New Year's Eve, those beers can be a real bladder killer.

That might be true @@pchadbo about the references, but they do encourage the learner to seek background to the issue and not just take a "because I said so" as the definitive authority.

I was going through the Scout requirements with my boys Sunday night and this issue came up on the Outdoor Code. They were all surprised that I didn't have it memorized. I said it wasn't necessary to have it memorized beyond getting the requirement done. The newbies were surprised at that answer but my oldest scout said, Mr. Stosh always makes sure every bit of garbage is picked up after a campout so that it looks nice, every piece of food dumped on the ground picked up (animal safety) and the fire pit is cleaned up, (nice for the next group). He then said it was the troop's trademark. A clean campsite that good means a Scout was the last camper there.

At summer camp I always have a "project" to do while I'm hanging around camp and one year I made a small rocket stove that I used to do all my cooking (camp had no mess hall). It worked great and I used FAR less wood than the boys using the Shepherd's stove. Both were stoves using wood as a fuel source and even with a burn ban, they were allowed. Unfortunately stoves don't make very good campfires, but they will help reduce the use of expensive fuel. I have been told in the literature, that rocket stoves use about 8 times less wood fuel for the same amount of heat energy. Getting a fire of tinder and kindling going gets one a cup of coffee quicker than building a cook fire and waiting for the logs to die down to coals. It takes a lot of wood to get a Shepherd's stove up to cooking temperature as well.

One thing I remembered this morning about the home-school youth and the various options available. My wife's children were home-schooled in Alaska. It was remote and BSA has a limited footprint there. Her children were associated with the Royal Rangers which like the Pioneers around here were more like the faith based Trail Life USA. I don't think the rural/remote issue is as big as it was when Scouting first started. Our society is extremely mobile and if kids need to get somewhere, rides are readily available. Heck, kids that live 2 blocks from school get a ride. When I was living in North Dakota, the kids that lived 12-14 miles out from school often didn't ride the bus, but drove to school on their own so they could participate in after school activities. Farm kids as young as 12 held a special farm driver's license. 4-H was big up there and never heard of anyone being in Scouts or a Lone Scout.

I use the bunny hole routine for the younger boys it's easy to demonstrate and for the boys to learn. It fulfills the requirement but the figure-8 routine for the older boys. Personally I always use the figure-8 when I need a loop that doesn't slip.

For years Scouting was a leadership development program, i.e. leadership Eagle projects, PORs, boy-led program, etc. Lone Scouting doesn't have anyone to "follow" so it's going to be tough with leadership issues. I did have a large number of home schooled youth, however, over the years. A number of boys join my Venturing crew in spite of the Lone Scout program. The traveled quite a bit of distance to be involved in that boys where registered from 3 different Councils in my Crew to be able to participate so isolation was never an issue. They joined primarily for the social aspects of the group, but due to the fact that we were a Venturing Crew of military reenactors leadership development was a major part of the experience and, many of the boys rose through the ranks of that group. None of the boys ever earned any BSA recognition, but were NCO's and one boy a commissioned officer in the reenacting world which is rare for even the adults. Instead of Lone Scout, many of the rural youth in our area are going with the 4-H program which is also a leadership program and do very well there. I have noticed that a number of our home-schooled youth are also going with Heritage Girls and Trail Life USA which leads me to believe that the home-schooled youth families avoiding public schools might be the same conservatives going with these groups as well, but that's just a gut feeling. Both my daughters are very conservative and both home-school their children. My wife also home-schooled her children for the same reason. Because of this, Lone Scouting is unheard of in this area.

A ban on flint/steel or drill is unheard of in my area of the country. We have boys start fires with magnesium all the time. As a matter of fact, magnesium sticks were prizes for popcorn sales a couple of years back, still might be.

My unit is chartered by a church and the church explicitly stated it is for the boys of the neighborhood regardless of their religious affiliation. Thus none of the boys in my troop are members of the church.

The Boy was referring to the trans issue and the Reverent was referring to the Catholic dialog going on. I just put the two into the same sentence, after all it is the I&P section and they were running parallel there for a while. While I do not hold the same views as some of the others on the forum, the point being made about the male/female/sex du jour thread boiling down to the premise that everyone his human is pretty valid and should be the underpinning of the conversation.

With all these fancy techniques for teaching, wouldn't it be just as advantageous to teach the techniques for learning?....: The relationship between teacher and student is symbiotic.

Issues related to a Boy Scout is Reverent stay in the IP section. And for all you Dr. Who fans out there.....RUN!

Okay, I see now where the word comes from, but as you said, he doesn't need to choose to go back and cope, but he can go back and make things better for everyone besides himself. He's not the only one with that problem and his troop isn't the only troop out there with that problem, either. The boys working with the adults are what make a great troop, not just the adults or just the boys.

@@NJCubScouter, I don't think anyone is suggesting for a moment that @@Maric go back and "cope", i.e. put up with the way things are. I for one would not even consider that a decent choice for any Scout. Choices: 1) Quit Scouts and abandon Eagle. 2) Leave and find another troop (or Crew). 3) Do the Lone Scout thingy. 4) Stay and improve the problem in that troop he's facing. I don't think anyone suggested 5) Stay and put up with it the way it is. As a Scouter for many years I would never suggest to a Scout #1 The suggesion #2 has the caveat that it may appear the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, it may not be that way up close. #3 is very difficult when the Council knows you live within a mile or so of other troops. #5 is off the table as well for me. If this gentleman Scout is wishing to take on a secondary "leadership project" besides his Eagle project, he might want to give #4 a shot. It all depends on his level of maturity and temperament. Not everyone can pull it off. From what I have seen of other scouts, those that bite off more than they can chew and win, turn out to be some pretty impressive people that I for one hold in great respect. #1) is the route I took when I was in Scouts and, like every 17 year-old that missed his Eagle, I have regretted it all my life. My buddies and I didn't like the way our troop was run and instead of trying to fix it we all left.

Jinx!

And by the way, accepting same-old, same-old as a way of life is not what being an Eagle is all about. Scouting is an adventure, whether it be in your life, your family, your religious organization, your work, your community, your group of friends or your troop, All of life is an adventure if you make it that way, but it is always up to you what you what you settle for.

And by the way, accepting same-old, same-old as a way of life is not what being an Eagle is all about. Scouting is an adventure, whether it be in your life, your family, your religious organization, your work, your community, your group of friends or your troop, All of life is an adventure if you make it that way, but it is always up to you what you settle for.

First of all, welcome to the forum! There's a lot of discussion on the forum about the problem of retention of older boys in the troop. Many will say that outside interests will draw them away such as the "fumes", i.e. car fumes and perfume. For the most part I would agree up to a point. Sure, there are a lot of things out there that will draw the attention of young men to a more adult lifestyle as they mature, but maturity will also bring into focus the possibility that they can handle multiple activities in a balanced manner. People work, have families, go to religious activities, community activities, etc. all carefully coordinated in their daily lives. These issues are not mutually exclusive so I don't buy into the general premise that boys are leaving for these reasons. On the other hand, what I do see happening is that after 5-6 years of the same-old, same-old, they get bored. Seriously going to the same summer camp for 5 years in a row would not even suit me at all. As a SM, I have rotated between 3-4 different camps just to keep my own sanity and stay with the game. So, with that being said, there are a few options out there for the older scout. 1) Quit out of sheer boredom and find something else out there that offers more to life than the same-old, same-old. 2) Bail out of the activity and find another troop that is different a different same-old, same-old but is different same-old, same-old to the one bored. But one has to be cautious here in that there may be many of the older boys that have bailed from that troop and they lack Life level scouts. 3) As an older scout, roll up one's sleeves and start making things different in the troop you are at. If one were to push for more challenging activities, different summer camps (even go as an single scout, meet new people, have a different program, see different scenery, take the NYLT week instead, or sign on a CIT for a week. If there are other boys 15+ that are getting bored, form your own patrol and go to Northern Tier, Sea Base, Philmont, hike the Appalachian Trail or the take a week long canoe trip down the nearest river. Expensive? Sure, but these are older boys, they know how to fund raise, roll up the sleeves and if the adults aren't going to help you, don't worry about it, your patrol isn't made up of 10-14 year olds who are still learning how to do these things, Or maybe get in touch with the Green Bar Bill material and start training the younger boys about boy-leadership so that when the time comes they won't be in the same situation you are right now!!! If one gets adult pushback, don't worry about it, either they are going to go along with it because it helps them retain older boys, or they will see it as a threat to their adult led control of the troop. If that happens, all one need to is respectfully say, "With all due respect, Mr. ScoutMaster, BSA is a boy led, patrol method program and we would prefer your assistance in making that happen for the older boys in the troop." If one were to balance a older boy patrol i.e. venture patrol, with the needs of the troop, i.e. help out with the younger boys. I see little or no resistance going to come from the adults. Sound like a lot of work? Sure, but then running a successful troop program is exactly that and the more boys that come on board with you, the less challenging it is for any one person. Remember that if one were to choose to stay and fix the problem, it's not just your problem you're fixing, it's the same-old, same-old problem that faces every scout in every troop in every part of the country. Jumping around from troop to troop cannot solve that problem. My advice? Stay and make a difference, you aren't the new kid on the block, but you have the rank and maturity to make a difference for the boys in your troop and those that will follow your legacy. Scouting is an adventure, sometimes adventure just happens, but most of the time, one makes their own adventure along the way.

Gee, I didn't know 6:30 am on January 1st even existed......

We spend a lot of time teaching our boys how to use the EDGE method. Ever since I started working with youth, either in the BSA or other community and religious contexts, I didn't teach them the EDGE method, I teach them how to teach. There is a difference. While it might be going a bit above and beyond the accepted practice of doing the requirements, I don't teach the boys to tie knots the first time around, I teach them how to teach the knots. That has crept into the requirements just a wee bit. Here's the routine: 1) Stand up, greet the students, and introduce yourself with your full name. (Rather ridiculous at first, but it does help settle the nerves and focus on the lesson.) 2) Tell the person you are teaching what it is you're going to teach. 3) Then tell and show them about the knot you're going to teach, including the actual knot tying, its uses and maybe a bit of it's history or something else that might help them remember better. Maybe a little story about how you learned the knot, to help them remember and make connection to the actual knot. 4) Then tell and demonstrate to them once more. 5) Then have the student demonstrate tying the knot to the teacher, while the teacher watches and once they mastered it, HAVE THE STUDENT TEACH THE TEACHER what he has just learned. If the group is large, they may wish to teach a parent or an older scout if time is an issue. The teacher watches over the boys to offer suggestion or assist them in the teaching. 6) At this point, the student has a pretty good idea of what was taught. 7) Thanks for their respectful attention to the lesson. Along with this, there's a number of other factors the teacher must be aware of. If they face the student while teaching the knots, the students see everything BACKWARDS. So all the boys are instructed to turn around, hold the rope above their head so the students can see what's going from the correct perspective and they will understand relationally better what is going on in the lesson. Edge is a management technique that teaches the students. But there are other means of helping the student master the process of teaching anything and puts the students better in a format of being prepared to carry on the instruction to others. Did they learn to tie knots, or did they learn the skill of knot tying so they could help others. The teacher is not just responsible for going through the lesson, but also do whatever it takes to help the student learn. My parents pretty much know the knots as well as their boys.

Wow, now there a stereotypical slam if I ever saw one. Maybe in all that psychological training one might have picked up the nuance that in order to train a soldier to overcome their natural ability to preserve life by viewing the enemy in extremely negative ways...such as name calling. I like NASCAR and I watch Fox News. So where does that put me with my 8 years post high school degrees (3 of them), one of which involved psychology?

If parents don't want their child to grow up loving the outdoors, why do they have them in a scouting program? Which then begs the question of if LDS doesn't want kids to go camping, why did they make the scouting program the basis for their youth program? I guess I will never understand..... I had parents that loved to camp, yet only two of us siblings still camp. Go figure.