Stosh

Or finding edible food that doesn't come from a store. Making clothing to protect oneself from the elements.

I use the book as a learning process. The boys don't think about scouts from one week until the next when they have to find their shirt for the meeting. When they don't bring their book, they don't get advancement checked off. I only have to remind them that it's not my responsibility to bring their book each week so they can get advancement credit. If they don't bring it, I don't say anything unless it's been a couple of weeks of forgetting.

An empty shed doesn't need a good roof....

Thousands of people marched on the capitol to protest women's rights when all they had to do is say they were male. Seems to take a bit of steam out of the argument.

The Mrs. and I just had this conversation this past weekend. I have her in my contacts but I didn't know her cell phone number. When she started to tease me about it and I said I didn't need to know her number, all I had to do is snap my fingers and she'd answer. That's when the fun ended.

Hmmm, I have a garrison cap, a beret, an expedition hat and a campaign hat. I hate baseball caps, they are as useless as the garrison and beret styles. My expedition hat has both Philmont brands on the brim as well as the Centennial Jamboree brand. It has been worn at least once a week since I bought it in 1993...... that's now just under 25 years.....

Thank you, I thought my senior moment had gone seriously awry.

CC: "Ya know, John, the past few BOR's I have conducted seem to all follow the same flow. It would seem the boys aren't getting enough outings like they used to." SM: "I've noticed that too, but with the lack of reliable ASM's and parents stepping up to be backup for me, it's a bit more difficult lately. CC: "Sounds like something we as a committee need to address. I hadn't realized we were short on personnel." No confidentiality issues, a concern expressed, a bit of dialog and some possible solutions to the issuess the boys are talking about. The CC isn't trying to make any program changes, just aired out some of the concerns the boys seem to be expressing in their BOR's. CC: "Oh, by the way, the boys seemed to still talk about that canoe trip the troop took last summer. It must have been something they really enjoyed. Might want to keep that ball rolling for a while. SM: "Really, I didn't think they were all that excited about it. But it's good to know, for next summer." It works both ways, both the positive and negative feedback. And yes, all that interviewing the BOR does is wasted unless the information collected is actually used to support the program of the troop.

@@Chadamus and I got it squared away so a thumbs up shows. This isn't the first time @@qwazse's thumb "slipped". How big is your thumb anyway?

Somehow I get the feeling the thread is a wee bit off topic. I don't see the CC or MC's needing to take all kinds of extensive training to understand the program of the BSA, They should do rather well just with the leader specific training already in place. Having a meeting for all parents isn't what the OP was talking about. From the title, all one is asking for is what did the boy say in the BOR conversation that might be valuable to the SM/ASM team to improve the program in the troop. The boy says he's tired of getting bullied by his PL, that might be something the SM should know about. If the boys are upset with the way the patrols are decided by the adults, that's something that might need to be addressed. It's nothing more than a quick meeting to give feedback to the SM/ASM's so they can adjust their approach to the program if necessary. Even if the BOR asks the boy how it's going for him in Scouts and the boy says, great. Doesn't it seem appropriate to let the SM/ASM know this? With the SM/ASM's NOT sitting in on BOR's, wouldn't it seem only natural to let them know what the boys say about how things are being run? If this information isn't going to be used for the betterment of the troop, why are BOR members even asking these questions? Sounds like a waste of time to me.

Better clue me in if we are, I wouldn't want to miss a good argument.

I have a vegetarian boy in my troop. I have no idea what his religious affiliation is. I have a boy that doesn't like hotdogs, I have no idea what his religious affiliation is. I have a boy that doesn't eat peanuts or peanut butter. I have no idea if he's allergic to peanuts or just doesn't like peanuts. I don't know his religious affiliation either. Truth be told, I have a boy that likes rice and so even though he doesn't look it, I'm thinking he's Chinese. I have another scout who looks Oriental, but he has a German shepherd for a pet dog. A friend of mine was born in Kenya to missionaries. He has blond hair and blue eyes, but I'm thinking he's really African-American. Not sure, he likes rice too.

Not attaining the rank of Eagle is not a punishment. It just means one did not attain the rank for whatever reason. As to having to pass around some sort of blame, I guess it would fall on the boy. It is not a life requirement to attain the Eagle rank in scouting.

we wouldn't have anything to talk about under I&P.

First of all, welcome to the forum. I did a quick search on the internet for Nottinghamshire UK Regionals and came up with a bunch of different things. Being from the wrong side of the pond, maybe you can be more specific. Do these regionals have something to do with Scouts? Thanks.

This sort of ethics floats through units on a regular basis. Again last night I had a discussion with a parent on why we don't do ISA's in our unit. Finances are always a good indicator of a unit's ethical stance.

Whereas the salute is now a sign of respect, whether it be a hand to the eyebrow, a hand over the heart, a sword swoop, or simply standing at attention, it is all the same. Like @@UncleP said, they are all showing respect, and for me that's better than most out there. I Scout Salute when I'm in uniform, hand/heart salute when not, When I was a reenactor I saluted with hand, gun and sword depending on what rank I was currently in. I never served in the military in that I was medically unqualified and given a 4-F designation. I appealed it and was denied. And I also stand at attention and face the Canadian flag when Oh, Canada plays. As far as that picture goes, the serious expression on each of their faces says more than which salute they happen to chose to honor the flag. I haven't seen such an uproar about saluting since John Kennedy, Jr. saluted his father at his funeral.

When in doubt, stand at attention. That in and of itself is a sign of respect for the occasion. If I was in Canada and they were playing the Canadian National Anthem (Oh, Canada), in order to show my respect, I have stood quietly at attention. When in doubt, just stand at attention. That is universal sign of respect. Like I said Mrs. Trump is doing just that and if the Obamas were chastised for that, then shame on those who did so. President Trump is NOT a civilian, he is Commander-in-Chief of all things military in the United States. A salute of respect is appropriate as was for my father, whom I never saw in military uniform, but always hand-saluted the flag when appropriate. As a radio/navigator/belly gunner on a US Navy torpedo bomber during WW II at the age of 17, he earned that right. President Trump, and as for former-President Obama when he was in office, is entitled to that same right. Former-President Eisenhower never saluted? Does that mean he simply stood at a respectful attention as Mrs. Trump is doing? If I had a dollar for every time I see someone showing less respect for our Flag than shown by President and Mrs. Trump in this picture, I'd die a rich man.

Okay, I'll bite 1) Mrs. Trump has been a US citizen for only 10 years. I will cut her a little slack in the US Flag Code for civilians. Is the First Lady a "civilian"? I dunno. Probably. I'm not going to judge. When in doubt, stand at attention. Which she is doing. 2) President Trump is Commander-in-Chief of all US military. Military salute is in order. Civilian FLAG CODE does not apply to non-civilians. By the way, what uniform does the Commander-in-Chief wear? From what I can tell, it's always been a suit, shirt and tie, unless they are playing golf. 3) Solider in full uniform does a military salute. Okay, I can see that. 4) VP Pence does a civilian salute, he is not military unless something happens to the president. The original US Flag Code adopted in 1923 said all male civilians without hats were to simply stand at attention and only women and children were to salute with their hand over their heart. If a man did have a hat on he was to take it off and hold it in his hand which was over his heart. UNLESS IT WAS RAINING, Then he was to remove his hat and hold it over his head to keep the rain off. 5) Mrs. Pence does a civilian salute. No problem. Of course if President Trump saluting, it is now an appropriate practice that all military, active and veteran can salute the flag while in civilian clothing. I do believe President Trump as Commander-in-Chief is active military in civilian clothing. Seriously, I didn't really see anything being done by any of the 5 people as being disrespectful which the US Flag Code for civilians addresses. That's why the posting confused me. And I'll take to task any scouter in the BSA that is not in full uniform and salutes with a hand salute is showing more disrespect than any of these 5 people. When a scout/scsouter is out of uniform, the civilian, hand-over-the-heart, is the proper salute. He who is without sin can cast the first stone.

The solution to this whole thing is one of two things. If the situation means there's something to gain, then BSA owns the unit. If the situation means there's something to lose, then the Chartering Organization owns the unit. I can't see why one can't figure that out. First of all the CO needs to have the theft reported and followed up by appropriate legal means, i.e. file a police report. That should handle the criminal side of the issue. Then take these people to civil court to reclaim damages and recoup the money lost by the theft. On the second issue, with the leaders taking the assets. That's theft and should be reported to the authorities as such. Then again, head for civil court to reclaim the value of the assets taken. We had a situation in one of the units I served when a boy went to Philmont and left the troop with the cost/debt of his trip. The mother didn't seem to be concerned, after all her son got a free trip out of the deal. The troop took her to small claims court. She said she wasn't worried, the court couldn't enforce the repayment anyway even if there is a judgement against her. She didn't even bother to show up for the court appearance. When she didn't show the unit asked the judge for an arrest warrant to be issued for her contempt of court by not showing up. He did and she was taken into custody. Sometimes it takes a little more shaking things up to convince some people that one is taking these kinds of things seriously. A police report goes a long way when appearing in small claims court or civil court. It does wonders for a person's criminal record and credit score. Best to get a lawyer and figure one is going to have to play hard ball. That's usually not the way nice people want to have things turn out, but if one is going to be taken seriously, maybe they're going to have to become a bit uncomfortable in the process.

Flag etiquette? What am I missing?

You missed one... only cabin camping with indoor plumbing allowed. We wouldn't want any boy falling into a latrine. @@DuctTape you are correct, there will always be adults who will find any and all excuses to retain control by abusing the policies of the BSA's program. Let's look at each of your examples. 1. Adults must approve meal plans because proper nutrition is a matter of safety. In order for this to happen, the adults must pencil whip the advancement requirements on this and thus every scout in their unit has gained rank inappropriately. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being totally honest, troops like this would rank at the most generous level maybe a stretched 1. Dishonesty begets dishonesty. 2. Adults will cook the food because they will follow safe food prep. See above. 3. Scouts must camp close to the parking lot for emergency situations See above. If any of these issues are legitimate, then the training of the S->FC is woefully inadequate and the scouts of these troops are well on their way to becoming Paper Eagles. Troops run like this are not following the BSA Policies on advancement and not only are the boys cheated out of the program they are paying for, they are also cheated out of their opportunity to grow and develop as the program promises. By the way, my answer to these food/cooking issues is, "We won't be eating this weekend, it's too dangerous and one isn't going to starve to death in 3 days anyway."

If one steals $.01 or one steals $1,000,000, to a scout the issue isn't scale, the issue is honesty. "Scale" is arbitrary and subject to "fuzzy logic". If a penny doesn't matter, but $1,000,000 does, at what point was/is the tipping point. Theoretically there could be a million answers to that question. For Scouters teaching boys honesty, citizenship, and morality in their dealings with others, using a scale might not be a choice in the matter. At least not for me. Your mileage may vary.

In my troop the only adult interference is on the side of safety. Will this failure cause physical or emotional harm to others? If yes, then adults step in. If not. let it go.

Who in this country is so perfect that they can be totally scrutinized by both parties and end up squeaky clean? Maybe we didn't get a polished icon of leadership, but we have a human being just like all the rest of us with our flaws and shortcomings. This guy took on 16 Republicans and won, then took on the #1 Democrat and won. He's got something going for him that seems to be setting a new trend which has yet to be spelled out. Time will tell. Well, "We've never done it this way before." so maybe that's a good thing.