Stosh

I found that taping my heel where it would rub, another across the ball of my foot and another over the top of my toes before putting on a thin nylon sock and then a heavy wool sock solved all my blister problems. Well, I don't get blisters, so I don't have that problem. Even with sweaty feet of the heavy sock in the summer time and the occasional soaking from walking through creeks, the duct tape always stayed in place quite nicely because the nylon sock kept the corners from rolling back up, etc. The nylon would rub on the tape (not skin) and what little friction heat was not enough to cause blisters. However the sock rubbing on skin has the double whammy of both heat and abrasion going on.

This may get this thread tossed into I & P but I'll continue on anyway. Urination will leave a human scent, just like any other animal's unique scent. If done on a rock, or on a tree, there's nothing they can "dig up" and thus they won't mess with the ground. They will just sniff, and move on. Spitting and nose blowing isn't much of a human scent target, but bears, like pigs are scavengers and they will basically eat anything they can find, yes, and they will find and dig up what is left behind. I had a dog that would regularly find "dog treats" in the cat pan. Grossed me out. I checked with my veterinarian about that and he said, a lot of lupine animals will find such practice in line as well. His solution to my problem pooch was to sprinkle the treats with cayenne pepper to discourage them. I don't know if that would work for a chihuahua or not. So now we have bears, wolves, coyotes, feral pigs and such that will find the treats and dig them up, leaving quite a mess in that area. Most of these are pack/herd animals and will draw in more than just a single bear. All these principles of scent also apply to food scents as well and soaps and other fragrant items left over from washing. The whole idea of this whole process is to not make a target of oneself, or worse yet, the next human in the area that is unaware of the target on their back and gets a nocturnal visitor checking out the scents. Most places that have marked campsites usually have a firepit and drop box toilet for each site. BWCA and Philmont both do in the primitive setting. That simplifies the LNT problems, but in more remote areas of heavy human traffic along trails, that will offer up the wildlife quite a nice banquet table that could extend for miles.

Yeah, that sounds stupidly PC. Feelings over safety. If you have the newer BSA whistles they have the cork ball in them like the sport whistles. They have their limits. The historic BSA whistles are tubular and have no cork. Their tone is more mellow and deeper in pitch, but the sound is very distinctive than the sport whistle which would make them stand out from the rest The British Scout whistles are tubular as well, but they have a dual sound (think train whistle) which makes them an even more unique sound. If one has the British whistle and everyone else has the cork ball sport whistles, the sound will stand out from all the rest. I don't know if the tubular whistles have the sound range that the more shrill sport whistles do, but they should suffice for any camp setting.

Double socks and duct tape and one doesn't need a whole lot more in their First Aid kit. I did 110 miles at Philmont and no blisters. SM yelled at me for buying the "wrong" type of boots. I didn't do the all leather boot, but went with a lightweight man-made composite boot. Far more comfortable, not quite as ankle sturdy, but as long as I didn't twist an ankle I was okay. The SM and boys suffered more with blisters than I did with twisted ankles.

There are places where portable toilets are required by law. Make sure you know where those places are. And as far as LNT, digging holes is just as disruptive to the ground as trenching tents but on a smaller scale. Same for a small fire. It won't hurt if it's really just big enough to make dinner. Still it's not LNT compliant. I try and not cut corners. Human scat is just as big a problem as food scrap disposal. One may leave a really small hole, but the animal that digs it up to check it out hasn't been trained in the fine points of LNT.

@@SSScout Here's a bit of history for you. "Taps" was not played on the bugle it was played on the drum! After the last bugle call of the evening (LIGHTS OUT) from the regimental bugler, the drummer boy would walk through the camps to make sure the men complied. Their lights were candles and it was really important to get them out. A quiet tap on the drum as he walked through the company streets did the trick. The Fire Guards were those men that were within the camp to stay awake all night to make sure there were no fires. These tent cities were one tent next to the other and a fire at the foot of the company street provided the only fires. Men with candles in their tents was a whole different issue. Even though Butterfield came up with bugle "Taps", it was not widely used until after the war. Some used Butterfield's "Taps" and others continued with LIGHTS OUT.

You fellas need a backpacking porta-potty. They are easy enough to make. 4" PVC pipe cut to the length of your trek, capped on one end and capped with a screw off on the other end. 3"-6" of kitty litter to control odors and you're good to go.

I have a pair of old Vietnam era jungle boots that I always use while canoeing and kayaking. They look a bit worn (I don't polish them, but maybe I should) but they are just as good today as when I bought them. These boots have made a lot of trips to the BWCA and I have no idea how many portage miles I have put on them, but it's been a lot.

Every PL, whether he was in uniform or not would carry a BSA whistle on a lanyard to use as a communication device with his patrol. It was as common a sight as wearing just the necker today. It was his identification as a PL. I have purchased some of these whistles off of Ebay and two came with the original lanyards. I don't know when this practice became obsolete, but I think it is a shame we have lost the functionality of such practices. A short whistle signal to the patrol members really is far more effective in range than running around like a chicken with it's head cut off screaming at everyone which seems to be the accepted practice today. Oh, one other thing, I think the range of those BSA whistles was greater than even the bugle. This is why scouts are carrying a whistle in their survival kits anyway. Sure would be good to actually use them for something other than bulk in a survival kit.

One of my Eagle scouts went immediately on to adult leader training including WB while still in high school. He aged out early.

I use my old canvas GI surplus pup tent a lot. Warmer in the cool spring and fall months, easy to pack, still needs drying out just like the nylon tents but takes more time due to the thickness of the material. With a short cot, the need for a floor is not there, when it rains, I just let the water flow through and be cautious getting up in the morning. I have noticed that at times, nylon tents with floors often times hold in as much water as they hold out. Canvas tents don't need seam sealing on a regular basis either. In really bad weather, one can always toss a ground cloth sheet over the tent, stake the corners and be perfectly dry in the morning.

Good articles. when I was in reenacting as an officer, I often carried a holstered handgun and sword. In colder temperatures I would put on a great coat and now they were both concealed. I have a conceal carry permit for just such purposes. But when going into a building with a musket, cased one was in violation of conceal carry. Again as an infantry soldier, that would be a problem, too. It meant that when I took my musket out of the trunk of my car and take the case off before going into the meeting place. Some rules are really dumb. I can openly carry a handgun in my state, but as soon as I put on a coat, I need instruction, testing and a permit. I didn't realize how dangerous my coat really was.

I saw a slack line performer who did a street show for money when I was in San Francisco. He was doing the flaming hoops and stuff that scouts would probably try if they could get away with it. He did, however, caution everyone "Don't try this at home". Then he mumbled under his breath, "Where do you think I learned it."

Well, as a camper, hunter, gardener, and even when I tie my boots in the morning, I use the knots all the time. I don't think a days goes buy that the double half-hitch isn't used. I do use the figure eight loop more than the bowline, though. Knots are very functional in today's world. Lashings, not so much, but I make camp gadgets all the time, I do the tripod lashing in my garden for my peas, tomatoes and beans, for example. Sure I could cobble it all together in the spring, but the weight of the plants will have them sprawling all over the place before harvest unless a good tripod lashing isn't in place. Along with a quick look at a couple of pages in the SHB, maybe a bit of discussion on functionality needs to be in place to show the boys WHY they are learning this stuff. My buddy system is referred to as a marriage. The patrol method is referred to as a family, and the boys can get real-world understanding as to why these requirements are important to know.

A good Scout bugler at a military funeral? Wow! and they get paid for it, too. People are in school and work quite often, but I bet if asked before hand, arrangements could be made to be there for our Veterans. I am not a brass musician, but I am a musician that knows what the Bugler MB. is all about. During the early wars, young boys were taught the bugle in a matter of days, maybe a week or so, but they got the job done. It was a lot easier than the drummers. The number of calls they needed to know was endless. The skirmishers were 100 yards out in front and on both sides of a marching army, the commander in the column could communicate to the skirmishers to the point he could have them lie down, stand up move forward, begin firing, stop firing and when the column of marching soldiers were bugled into battleline formation, he could signal the skirmishers to RALLY ON THE FLAG to the rear of the battleline and get out o the way, the main fighting was to begin. There were different commands for different movements. If attacked by cavalry, the infantry skirmisher didn't have time to get back the 100 yards to the safety of the army, they would RALLY BY FOURS, If they had more time to gather up and fight at a company, they RALLY ON THE COMPANY, which would form all the men in a small group in front of the battleline, RALLY ON THE REGIMENT, go back to your original place on the battleline, and RALLY ON THE FLAG, at a dead run get back behind the battleline, all hell is going to break loose. The bugler needed to know what the right command to play and the soldier needed to know what the call meant, his life depended on it. Today it has become strictly ceremonial. There is no reason it can return to some sort of functionality in the troops today. If a boy wanders off and gets lost, the call of his bugler might be what it takes to have him know the right direction back to camp.

You may have been in camp, but welcome to the campfire, pull up a log and join in.

Looking back I guess it may at first appear to be dismissive, but in fact, I was trying to get across how useless the functionality of the requirement has become. I would dearly love to see the requirement go back to it's original usage and be something that benefits the espirit-de-corps for the boys. If used properly, I think it can be not only a helpful tool, but something the boys would enjoy. The way it is viewed today is nothing more than an extra "requirement" for advancement that means nothing of value to the boys, like say, maybe the Buddy System is where boys pair up and take care of each other. That makes sense. A patrol yell to parrot back to adults doesn't. As far as "keeping score" goes. I don't worry about that. I just use the up and down arrows to gauge the comments I am making on the forum. 2 up and 2 down indicates to me a strong division, maybe something to pursue further, thus the added historical background from which I come from. I do wish that those that arrow up or down, follow up with comments in response rather than just a hit-and-run either way. OK historian Stosh, a question?.... did ever in the past they have a practice of calling role when the troop comes together....just like they do for troops at summer camp before flag opening? Yes, the patrol yell gathered the boys together. After they were bunched up, there is no need for the Yell. Obvious, why is anyone yelling when everyone's standing next to you? The patrol yell was a short distance communication tool in and around camp. The longer distant communication was the responsibility of the bugler. It is similar to the troop bugle calls. REVEILLE is the morning wake up call. One will notice it is the longest of all the calls because by the time the bugler got to the last note, the soldier/scout was to be out of bed and standing in line for morning roll call. Then there is the ASSEMBLY call, this is the long range troop call that functions exactly the same as the short distance patrol yell. Once they are all formed up, inspected and ready to go they wait for the TO THE COLOR call which then they march to the parade field as a troop of patrols This practice of communication and directives is how communication was done with large numbers of men. "Back then" they didn't have cell phones and email with a distribution list to get everyone gathered up. . Along with the yell, there's the patrol flag. I hear my PL giving the yell, and one looks in the general location through sound directive, but that could be a pretty wide area. The guy waving the flag, a visual communication tool. Is it OUR patrol flag or some other PL's patrol flag? I recognize my own and I now know that I am being summoned and where to find the gathering point. Kinda like RALLY ON THE FLAG call. Which Flag? If all the PL's are yelling Rally on the flag, it's kinda useless. But if they give the patrol yell, they know which flag to rally to. So that at the opening of the troop meeting..... the SPL says "is the Coyote Patrol present?".... If so, THEN there would be a reason for a yell. At a general meeting where everyone is already gathered, the SPL takes a patrol roll. and the PL simply calls out, Coyote Patrol, all present (he's taken a patrol roll) OR (not AND) accounted for, meaning those not there are excused. No need for everyone to be yelling. An important piece of information from PL to SPL should not be interrupted with a lot of yelling. I can even imagine using it when the troop comes together at summer camp or camporee.... instead of a "troop yell", it's each patrol sounding off in sequence. In an ideal world, the camps should be using the patrol method and yes, the roll of units at morning and evening flags should be done by patrol as a patrol roll call, but the PL would again, being in close proximity, should give the patrol roll answer, "Coyote Patrol all present or accounted for". If the PL report doesn't go it tells the group, a patrol is missing or worse yet, "Coyote Patrol, present, one member unaccounted for." Now it gets exciting. The benefits of the system far out-weigh the boys all standing around yelling about who gets to go first in the chow line. I am very "dismissive" of how the requirement is being used today. Functionally it is nothing more than a time to make jokes with a "catchy" campfire style skit yell. I would like to see it being used as it was intended to be so that it can become a useful tool once more for the boys instead of something to laugh about. It has its basis in the military and yes it sounds a bit military, but it is a quick and efficient way to gather the patrol, gather the troop, get to the parade field, give a brief accounting status of membership in the camp and get on to chow with the least amount of goofing around. One would think that a quick roll call of the boys before each meal would be functionally more appropriate than who goes first.

Yet some of the best patrol yells I have heard from my boys sounded something like this "Hey Troop 77 Ravens, FALL IN!" It worked just fine. Oh, and by the way, they used it all the time, not just when someone in authority told them to parrot it back to them when promoted.

Okay 2 gave me green arrows and 2 gave me red arrows. Sounds like something to look into. Care to explain WHY this requirement is all that important? I can give historical reasons (back in the good old days, when Stosh was a kid kinda thing), but Hey People, lets get scouting into the 21st Century. Why are we using such arcane requirements when we have cell phones that could easily do better, ya' know, STEM stuff an' all. Maybe the Coyotes could have some words of wisdom from the forum on why they have to have a yell at all. If they thought it all that important they might actually come up with one rather quickly. If it wasn't for some troop "rule" or camp "tradition" the boys would never do a patrol yell on their own, right?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that what is happening with this patrol is no different than every other patrol ever formed. I have my boys still fighting over the patrol yell and they've been a patrol for almost a year now. Someday they will figure it out or they don't get TF rank. It's up to them, it's the most basic form of group dynamic on the planet, how to come to a consensus. If the PL dictates, that's not a consensus and there will be discord, if they get past this, the next challenge will be easier and each one of them after that. The real reason for this requirement is the first step in team building and creating a team of their own. I think the advice is well given and not with any animosity in the process. Boy led takes a bit of stepping back, grab some coffee and watch some good things happen in the mean time. Problem solving is a skill all the boys need to learn as they develop. It's not a bad thing to let them work it out on their own. By the way, the historical reason (which everyone really no longer understands) was the patrol yell was the means by which a PL could call his patrol together and form up. View it as a vocal bugle call. Same for the patrol yell. Whenever the PL wanted his patrol to gather, he would wave the patrol flag and give the yell. The boys then have a visual and an audible reference point to gather at. This process allows the PL to gather up his boys without having to run all over camp looking for them. My PL;s in my former troop would gather their boys up with flag and yell, quick inspection of uniform and then march in with the flags for the opening flags. If a patrol had something they needed to do together, the PL would flag and yell and the boys would come running. That's how it is supposed to work. For longer distances where the voice would not carry, the job of the bugler was to do the same thing long range. Each patrol has their own ditty (series of recognizable notes) and then the bugle call. If the SPL needed the Coyotes back in camp for some reason, he could play the ditty and then assembly and the patrol would follow the bugle call to wherever the bugler was. If the SPL only wanted the PL to report back to camp, he did the patrol ditty then played Officer's Call. Historically it was a really effective system for boys that were out and about and the troop officers could call back patrols or patrol leadership with a simple bugle call. It is quite surprising how far away a bugle can be heard. So maybe a brief history of the flag and yell would go a long way to help the boys understand the importance of the flag and yell so that it can be used in a more mature manner other than just trying to get first in line at the mess hall. To me the patrol yell has a more serious side to it than the joke it's become in today's troops.

Do you also play mess call, church call, assembly, to the flag, too. and more importantly, do the participants even know what any of those tunes are and why they're played? Maybe if we had functional buglers, the art of bugling may come back and be a real POR.

I don't think that with all the legislation in place we need any more. The problem is not solved by adding more rules, the criminals don't follow them anyway. Statistically speaking the places where there are more guns, more relaxed rules and where the rules are truly enforced have the lowest gun crime rate. Then one has to take into consideration, knife control. It would seem that ISIS has taken on that as a tactic. I don't know of many knife control laws out there. Next thing you know we'll all be eating our steaks like a Popsicle on a fork. It's just a lot easier to have parents bring up their young with a respect for others and if we once again become a civilized nation without crime, even the conceal carry people will leave their guns at home.

Good question. I am a historian and it has been my philosophy that one wears the patch to match the era of the uniform. My 1910 uniform has no patches, but it does have BSA collar brass. My 1960's uniform has the silver and green SM patch and Community Strips instead of council patches. If the gals want to get the old yellow shirts and use the old patches, so be it. Not a problem with me.

Not patrol leader approved? Sounds like BSA isn't following it's boy led principles, or are they just guidelines that can be ignored?

A uniform isn't required for Scouting, but it is for Jamboree? Multiple uniforms at that? With all the extra neckers, t-shirts, flags, large duffle bag, small duffle bag, backpack (all with special screen printing, stoves, tents, flies, etc. it all makes one wonder if this if for the boys or just a big promotional media event.