Stosh

So then there shouldn't be any challenges to getting his needs met.

Considering gender exists only in the imaginations of people.... sure, why not?

@@RivetSmasher I didn't want to hold off my welcome any longer, but it would look really dumb to just say "Welcome". My only suggestion would be to step back, wait for your son to decide what HE wants to do, then ask him if it would be okay to get involved, too. Then support his decision. At age 10-11 that can be an overwhelming decision and hopefully as a parent you will understand. It's kinda tough to do, considering you don't think like a 10 year old, so you'll have to listen carefully when he says what he wants and needs. Glad you're on board the forum. Nice subject to start out with.

Okay, you're a SM of a troop rather close. Eagle candidate comes and says his troop has lost its charter can he joint to get his Eagle/ So he signs up with the troop and never comes back. How is that any different than the eagle scout that gets the rank and then disappears and never comes back? Looks like a horse apiece. What's it that you as SM are out? Nothing but one more dead-wood name on your roster. On the other hand the scout with the problem back home just might find the friendliness of the SM sufficient to check it out and as an Eagle might be something the new troop would appreciate the boy sticking around. It could just as easily go that way as to the other. For me it would be a chance worth taking. After all being friendly and helpful on my part is the only part I'm responsible for when all is said and done. I have no problem doing my part. I don't judge MY actions on what I think MIGHT BE the actions of another.

Lone Scout dynamics are different and Councils tend to not want to get involved with it. Register him in any troop in the district. He is officially a registered scout. He doesn't need to go to any meetings, activities or even meet with the SM. I have had Webelos cross-overs disappear faster than the ink on the registration. BUT he's official for one year. End of discussion. He needs signatures from whom? SM? Nope he already has an EBOR, all he needs do is walk into the room and have the EBOR members initial their signatures and change the date. We're done. He has reached the Eagle rank, any celebrations can be done by the parents who plan the party anyway. It's easy to overlook a 1 month lapse in membership when it is know that the reason for it is the ineptitude of adults. If the boy wants to go back to his original troop? $1 will get him the transfer. At 16 and the keys to the car he can pick and chose any troop he wants. "Much ado about nothing."

It is a scientific fact that children react different to male adults than they do to female adults, Daughters interact differently with mothers than fathers. Same for sons. Expectations for sons in the family is not the same for children in the same family. These are a few of the most simple relationships dynamics. Add to that kindergarten children react differently to male teachers than they do to female teachers, well, children up thorough high school do the same thing. Boys act and react to the world differently when they are with a bunch of "guys" than when they are in mixed company, Gals act and react differently at slumber parties than they do at events where males are present. Heck, Bachelor and Bachelorette parties wouldn't be the same if couples were invited. So when it comes to the less sophisticated and impressionable ages. these issues are simply forced on them by adults who "know better". The program and activities might all be the same including the rather super dorky title of BOY Scouts for a co-ed group, but the dynamics of what is going on in the group will be altogether different. Seriously, if scouting today is perceived as dorky, who's going to join as a coed group? Lemme see..... Dorky girls who can't get a date if they tried or the entire cheerleading squad combined with the most popular gals that need all those dorky Boy Scouts lining up to ask for a date. If I speak in the extreme, it's because it is this kind of dynamic which seems to be going over people's heads in the discussion. So what if the program is the same, so what if the ranks are the same, so what if the name on the registration is the same, the group that one ends up with will NOT be the same, nor will the interests, dynamics, and functioning of the group be the same. I have worked more years with co-ed groups than I have in the 38+ years of being a Scouter. Even a blind man listening closely will know what I"m talking about, it's not rocket science, but it is science.

Hmmm Let me get this straight. Co-ed Boy Scouts is the same as Boy Scouts. Seems to be a lot of discussion about them not really being the same. I would think the parts that are not really the same seems to be the focus All I'm saying is Boy Scouts and Co-ed Boy Scouts can not be the same thing or they wouldn't have bothered adding the words Co-ed. What they teach is irrelevant. Standard classroom curriculum is never taught by the same teacher the same way for every class. It is adjusted for the audience. Why is that? It could mean that no matter how much one tries to jam a round peg in a square hole, it just isn't the same as putting a round peg in a round hole or a square peg in a square hole. No matter how much one wants it to be, eventually one needs to accept reality rather than one's wishes and dreams.

My mistake, I didn't realize it had become the patrol cheer.

One can put an exact reproduction of Abraham Lincoln in the wax museum, looks like Lincoln, push the button, talks and says the same thing Lincoln says, but it ain't Lincoln. Sorry, Co-Ed Boy Scouting is not Boy Scouting no matter how many comparisons one wishes to point out. I find it strange that pure gasoline is sold at the same pump as high octane gasoline and ethanol next to that. They are all the same, right?

I picked up that BSA silver bugle for about $80. It was not that long ago either.

I would guess if the BSA were to abandon the wording of their protected Congressional Charter, it would open the door for others to step in and take. Congress made it clear that there would be a Boy Scout for boys and Girl Scout program for girls. If those organizations no longer want that designation, then another organization can step in and accept that mission under a Congressional Charter with a program just for boys.

The Food for Thought, thread addresses this issue. It is also important that the moral teachings of the Christians are rooted in exactly the same documents as the Jewish and Muslim communities as well. That covers a pretty good chunk of the scouting world. What Scouting has done since it's inception is a whatever guess at a shot in the dark. It's that first step in the slippery slope.

Why is anyone worried about this troop and it's SM? They don't exist! End of discussion. Get the boys registered in any other troop in the mean time, get his EBOR and then when the dust settles, get him a permanent troop/crew if he so chooses.

I'm not advocating returning to what it was, but at least take a serious look at what it was they were doing at that time that set them apart from all the rest of the youth programs out there. Seriously? We had our cars, we had our gals, we had our sports (conference champs year after year), we all played sports, we had our Boy Scouts, we had our Girl Scouts, we had Civil Air Patrol, we had rifle club, photography club, language clubs, chess clubs, pep clubs, band/music, orchestra, church youth groups. We were as busy as the young folk are today. No excuse for too much competition to the program. Those that were in it, wanted it to be because of the program. With the schools taking their kids out "into the woods" it's because it is filling a void left by scouting. We have a at least 6 or 7 different outdoor programs for youth besides the myriad of Girl Scout, Boy Scout, 4-H, Trail Life/USA,Heritage Girls and the church supported "scouting" programs. Scouting quit doing what it did best and others stepped in a filled the void. I don't know what it needs to do now that the "product" is being sold elsewhere. The competitive edge of the branding is gone. Scouts are "demonized" by the competition, i.e. Scouting is dorky. It took 50 years to get to this point, it f one were to go back to "the way it was" it's going to take another 50 years or a small miracle to fix. All this bad press isn't doing anything to 'improve" anything for the BSA program. Making other controversial "improvements" may fix one thing, but destroy something else. It's a juggling act that BSA isn't going to win in the long run until they go back to the principles it once stood for. That might be it's only saving grace.

Question here!!! What's the age of the boy?? Is this a 16 year old or an 17.9 year old boy? Can he register now in a current troop and just do his EBOR over again for "technicality" sake? Even if all the requirements were done before the end of the year, a BOR can be held after to determine the rank. Register as a Venturing crew member and go for the EBOR.

A Scout is Trustworthy.. Unfortunately that's gone too?

The Char It's called a Charter Agreement. BSA takes a hands off stance on who can and who can't. The COR and IH determine it's membership. BSA can revoke a person's registration and ban them from the BSA but that usually involves a legal issue, theft, abuse, etc. not breech of programming. It's pretty much in-house issue with the unit. Even if the boy gets the rank from council, the unit does not need to honor it. This gamesmanship might just be the tip of the iceberg, Better to just move on down the road and forget it.

It used to be Young Men's Christian Association. Then somewhere down the line Christian passed out of the picture, then somewhere down the line Men seemed to disappear. Over the course of time Young got replaced by family. It's more of a corporation today than any sort of association. What they end up with is a gym called the "Y". Without any real foresight, they wandered until this is where they find themselves today. I wonder if that was where they wanted to go say maybe 50 years ago. Journey's with out a clear path need no map or compass. We passed the Boy mile marker a ways back, but there's more to the journey that isn't known.

Boys aren't to be punished because of the neglect of the adults. It is no fault of the scout the unit's leadership didn't fulfill it's responsibilities.

Biological girls and biological boys on a scouting activity must have at least one male and one female adults present. If the participants are biologically different, I surely under no circumstances would risk my 38 years in scouting on a girl whose parents haven't figured out whether they have a son or daughter having read the birth certificate. I may be an out-dated SM, but I'm not going to get caught up in the "he touched me" argument in a court of law. I need a bit of up-front honesty prior to taking on situations like this. BSA can say anything it wants, it's got the Big Bucks donations to defend itself, I don't. "Other people" can figure this out, until then, I'm not part of the problem, I'm not part of the solution. I work with young boys transitioning into men. I'm not at all interested in young girls transitioning into men. If my CO decides this is how it defines it's mission for the troop, then they can get a new leader who is willing to go along with it. Until then, it's business as usual. So to answer the question directly. IT DOESN"T which seems to make one wonder how much thought went into the change in the first place. It's always better to have all the safeguards in place before driving the truck out onto the ice.

And here is the crux of the matter. "Despite the reaction from some on this forum, it is not that big a deal." One would think that multiple threads on this issue with hundreds of replies, way more than the average life of threads, that it just may be that big a deal? "It does not necessarily mean Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts will become coed. They may at some point, but not because a kid from Secaucus NJ is allowed to be a Cub Scout." One must realize that this is not just some "kid from Secaucus, NJ" this is a girl from Secaucus, NJ and with acceptance of her membership means Cub Scouts now accepts biological girls into their program. Once she reaches 10-11, she will cross over to Boy Scouts and that program as well will accept girls. With this new policy change, they will now have to defend their position as to why some girls can be in Cub Scouts and not others. Let's see how that all shakes out. Hypocrisy can't hold it's water for very long. The first point will be, if this girl is a "boy" why does it take both male and female leaders at events where "he" is at. Hypocrisy is a really tough subject to defend.

That may be what has torqued the program over the years, but what is described is NOT what the Congressional Charter for BSA is based on. That's just an old piece of paper that doesn't mean anything anyway. Like the YMCA/YWCA programs of the past. It had a mission and a meaning, now it's just a gym. Maybe the BSA is destined to be any paved walking trail in the park.

If that be the case, then I guess BSA is going to have to change to accommodate them. What one doesn't realize is that in a confrontation has 3 options. 1) one side caves, (Co-ed Scouting, or Stay as is), 2) a third alternate is found (Scouting USA), 3) Don't resolve it (Hatfields and McCoys).

Ask the parents to keep the phones for the boys during the pack meeting. Shouldn't be that hard.

I guess we could drop Law #12 and see what happens.......It's kinda being ignored anyway. Then we could drop Boy out of the title and be Scouts of America. Then we could petition Congress to alter the language in the Charter. After all if simply changing the name is all it takes along with changing the mission and purpose, who knows it might be a good thing. After all, Christian Men and their associations is no longer relevant to a gym. A gym's a gym it doesn't care.