Stosh

If it were me, my first year scouts would think high adventure is their first week at camp. Maybe before that they might think their first camporee is high adventure. My older boys might think a week long float down the Mississippi river might be high adventure and my boys just about to age out might think a float on the Yukon is high adventure. Start with talking to your boys to see what they think. What YOU think is irrelevant.

Welcome to the forum and welcome back to Scouting. SSScout is being modest, 10 scouters is closer to 20 or 30 opinions.

When one is doing comparisons between generations, one must also take into consideration the dynamics of what people think is important. Back in the 1960's no one had cell phones, they had one phone, no answering machine, that hung on the wall. Cost? Pennies compared to today's cell phone addiction. How much of that income goes to cell phone, internet, cable/satellite TV, etc. that wasn't even on the radar of those of the past eras. We can't afford $2 bread, but they can afford a $100+/month cell phone, One of the reasons people tend to think the cost of living is so high is because they have added a tremendous amount of opportunities to the mix that didn't exist 50 years ago. What one doesn't take into consideration is the fact that the statistics are misleading. A new house? or a used house? A new car or a used car? These are factors that aren't taken into consideration. I have never lived in a new house. I have only once ever purchased a new car. Just isn't worth the extra money to have the latest/greatest of everything and thus my cash flow is far less than the "average" person of today. In 1968, the minimum wage was $1.10 so in less than 10 years it doubled, in 1959 my dad had a new house built for $12,000. He also bought a used house in 1970 for $29,000 and when he retired sold it for $140,000. So that "income" isn't calculated into the statistical income on the charts, too. Of course the statistics shown aren't necessarily reflective of various areas of the country. I don't live on the coast because housing and the cost of living is ridiculous. Not worth it. Can't afford to live in the Midwest after going to an Ivy League school out East or one of the prestigious colleges out on the West coast? Personal choice.... not a good one, but a choice nonetheless. Community college, state university, small seminary, 4 degrees and $1500 in total student loans in that process. And 2 of the degrees were from the 1990's so they weren't all that "back in the day". A Scout is Thrifty.... Might want to focus in on that Law as one progresses through life. After all, I never made over $45,000 in a single year ever in my lifetime, I own 2 houses outright, I have 5 cars, I live on a 9 acre hobby farm, owe no one anything, and I retired a millionaire. I think the biggest problem is not inflation, it is they missed out on the Personal Finance MB. In many respects, peoples' poor choices is what makes them struggle financially, not the other way around.

David and I don't always see eye-to-eye on a lot of issues, but he does make a fair point. There aren't that many "conservatives" that I know are who are in the PC camp. I would think that from the number of posts I have made over the past 10 years, being PC hasn't been one of my forte's and promoting a historical basis for Scouting does seem to separate the wheat from the chaff during the discussions. There's a few of us over-the-hill passe folks here on the forum that had done well at dragging our heels with all these "changes" going on and yet in the back of my mind, it kinda saddens me that boys today will never know what I know having been a scout back in the 50's and 60's. I didn't particularly have a good experience in Scouting, I had a very wide spectrum of school, church and community activities I was involved in, but Scouting was the one that had a positive impact in my background that played a role in the 45+ years of working with youth during my adulthood. I don't know if it still has that ability for our young boys of today or not. It will be too bad if it doesn't.

Gee, if they ever get a Wine Making MB, I'm all set. I have all the equipment and my wife just received a book in the mail today that is titled: "101 Recipes for making Wild Wines At Home" by John Peragine. Of course Rubarb Wine, Brussle Sprouts/Raisin Wine, Carrot Wine, Corn Wine, Cuccumber Wine are in there, but so is Chili Wine (my daughter makes a great chili jam, too!) For the older boys there's the herb wines, but for High Adventure there's Clover and Dandelion Wines, Honeysuckle, Nettle Wines, and Cat Tail Wine. They go well with the Plantain, Dandelion Greens, Wild Onion, Purslaine and other Forage Salads.

Secured? In plain sight of all adult leaders? Heck I don't have my alcohol at home "secured" other than being in a cabinet above the stove, If I was all that worried about it I could always turn the stove on when my grandkids are around to deter them from crawling up there to get at the booze. I guess I'll have to retink my strategy when I have MB boys over to the hosue. The 5 gal jug in the back room of fermenting grapes might be too much for them to handle. With my kids, the teaching moments were enough that they don't seem to be big in the party scene and alcohol is no big deal to them. When I stop buy to visit the grandkids, I generally get offered soda because I always turn a beer or glass of wine down because I'm driving. They have asked that we try and remember to put our conceal carry items in the glove box before coming into the house. On the other hand my other daughter has asked me to teach her how to use weapons because she and her husband want to have self protection in her home. Every lesson needs to be formulated specifically for every person. Wide sweeping hysteria never really worked for me, but specific dialog lessons seem to work the best. The patrol that would meet in the corner with the banquet bar were gently reminded not to go behind the bar because we didn't want to get kicked out of our meeting place. Because of that we never had to mention the issue again.

No, I finally passed Morse Code and got 2nd Class. I was disappointed in the whole process that I left scouting soon after that.

I remember Morse Code, it was a requirement for 2nd Class. It held me back for quite some time. Just couldn't get into it very well. Later in Civil Air Patrol, I used it a lot, I was a radio operator for search and rescue.

Too many nots, got all tied up.

The ARC used to teach the course on behalf of the BSA. Not offered for many years in our state. BSA either does it themselves or hires a third party to do it.

One of the biggest problems I see with the classic scouting emphasis is that 1) not many of the adults in the program were either not brought up in it so they have no reference and 2) aren't outdoors people in the first place. It is as if the "leaders" of today would have a difficult time getting through the FC requirements without first having extensive training just for them. Other than starting the grill with lighter fluid, how many people know how to start a fire? Without a GPS, how many could find their way using a paper map? How many know basic first aid? etc.Knots and lashings? No clue. Camping in a tent? Yeah, right.

The Red Cross does not do WFA in our area anymore and is dropping it from their offerings. BSA and others have been doing it so it's no longer feasible to provide it. I was hoping to get it for free, being an ARC volunteer. Nope, nothing in our area is offered. BSA or 3rd party. The question is why isn't BSA putting it on for free? It's their program after all.

Pricey is irrelevant as are the number of hours and the type of curriculum. What one is solely interested in is the piece of paper that says one can take their boys into the woods. If BSA was really serious about this, they could be putting on the training, just like Safe Swim, Climbing, etc. at no cost to the volunteer. If this is going to be a requirement they need to follow through with the policies and processes for all other BSA training. YPT is required and it is free, The nominal fee for job specific is mostly to cover food, supplies, etc. But it isn't required either. WB is a monetary commitment....BUT it is not required! If it is a mandatory requirement for running the program it should be demanding the costs to be born by the volunteers. I have had at 112 classes taken for the American Red Cross, I am certified in 11 different specialties, With an additional hands on training I will be certified in Emergency Response Vehicle and certification in fork lift operations, and after another hands on class I will be moved from the service associate position in the 11 different specialties to supervisory in the area of national disaster response. Whenever training is "out-of-town" I am encouraged to take a chapter vehicle as transportation. The week long annual seminar training includes hotel accommodations. The cost to me? $0.00 Quality of training? I have as much training in safe food handling than most restaurant personnel. I have had much training as most logistical warehouse personnel. I can assist people with disabilities as well as those training at the CNA level. I have the requisite CPR/AED/First Aid training. Defensive Driving courses, on the road testing of vehicle operations, etc. So is this a waste of Red Cross dollars? Or is it just their way of putting highly qualified and trained people in the field in a mass disaster situation? And when was the last time I was with the Scouts? Last meeting on Sunday. Red Cross? Last night and I'm setting up a client case this evening as well. Only in Scouting can the untrained take our children out into the field. YPT is not enough. If one wishes to do more, get out your checkbook. Ever wonder how Red Cross can "afford" all that free training? It's because most all the instructors are volunteers. There's very little if any cost to put on the training. Not only that ARC accepts training credentials from other organizations as well. FEMA training, American Heart training, professional training, state health certifications. These are highly qualified professional people volunteering their time to train others to make a difference. Kinda like "helping other people at all times" sort of thingy. Red Cross takes care of it's volunteers as well as it takes care of it's clients.

I guess I'm a bit out of the box here, but why is it important to publish the full names of the boys on the website? If it's not necessary, that should suffice as a good reason not to, especially if one is inclined to ask in the first place.

From some of the early literature, the testing for advancement was done by the Commissioners.

There was a bit of the membership issue involved. Why not go back to before the decline in membership to a program that the boys wanted. Obviously they were coming in with the numbers in their "heyday". Did the boys change and the numbers drop or did the program change and the numbers dropped? I don't think BSA even knows. With the multiple organizations around "going back to the basics", doing outdoor field work, more camping, etc. I would think it might be a good time to try the old program to see if it was the program or society that changed causing the declining membership.

I would go back just far enough to where the membership and interest was the highest and before a lot of the "new ideas" began on the scene. If one were to review some of the earlier literature and publications of BSA, one would find that the processes we use today are no where near the intent of processes of the past. For example, if one wishes to be a FC scout, today all one needs to do is show they have been exposed to scoutcraft knowledge. In years gone by, the scout had to prove he knew all these requirements all in one test that would take several days. I do believe at one point the camping MB required 50 nights of camping, today's it's less than half that amount. I do believe that today one can't retest at a BOR. I believe originally the BOR WAS the test!

LOL the product in question was frozen salmon, they could have just as easily shipped it to the Continental 48, it didn't need canning. So I ask what did the Chinese do with it? The Butter in question is not produced in other states, it is produced under foreign standards. FDA approval or no sale in the state. So are these issues meant to protect consumers in the US or are we to accept whatever standards others around the world may be pawning off on the public. When I was living in Iowa, delegates from the Oriental nations did a direct trade agreement, we ship them corn directly and they ship us rice directly. What surprised the Easterners was the lack of crushed sea shells in with the corn. So who put the shells in there to increase the weight? Maybe we ought to just let the consumer decide whether they want lead-based paint to do the new nursery in. Or animal treats that are poisonous to pets. High standards of product safety end at the shoreline...and maybe state line, too.

Maybe BSA ought to develop a program called "Classic Scouting" and quit with this New Scouting "stuff".

Like @@David CO implies, get the boys out there and have fun, even if it's on an aircraft carrier or in a cabin, and quit worrying about whether or not there are enough boxes checked. If one has to sit and count the days to make sure there are enough, then that unit is not doing enough. There should be no question about Little Johnny qualifying fort OA. One does not need to count days and rationalize each one to make sure it fits into a certain pigeon-hole. One will know when it is enough when the SM asks Little Johnny if he has 20 nights of camping in in the last 2 years and he looks at them, raises an eyebrow and says, "Really? You gotta ask????"

What I find rather strange is how this discussion just like the others is intended to take a choice away from the boys in the program. Necker? Take it or leave it. No big deal, So why is it so important to take away that option for those that like neckers? Too often we see people thinking that there's only one choice in life. If others don't see it my way, then I must somehow work to make sure they do even if that means taking away the freedom of their choices. I like neckers, they are functional in many ways. It's okay to have the option/choice not to wear them, others can do and make do with their choices. However, I find it offensive that others find it necessary to take away my freedoms to assuage their guilt for changing the rules to fit their personal choices.

1) Fold into a triangle, 2) Left hand necker shorter than the right, like one would do starting a dress tie. This is the standing end. 3) Right necker (running end) over left and go behind. 4) come around under the running end. 5) From the top, tuck running end down next to and parallel with the standing end. If it doesn't need to be outside the shirt, I just tie a square knot and pull my collar up and over it. That works best if I wet it first and the necker stays wet longer and produces a cooling effect longer. This produces a sliding knot overhand knot that loops the left standing end. It looks neat like a dress tie and when pulled tight will work just as well as the woggle for holding the necker in place.

Yeh, I had to put the stop on the boys going into the bar and getting the free popcorn there. The image issue was a concern. I told them that if they wanted popcorn, buy some and we can make it up in the kitchen. They never questioned it after that. There was a second bar in the banquet hall were the boys met and although the boys used the stools to sit on during patrol meetings, they never went behind the bar. The only concern I had is when the IH would come to "see how the boys were doing." and would be a bit over-consumed with a high-ball in his hand...... and the boys knew he had had too much. We discussed it amongst ourselves and that was the end of it. I think there is a direct ratio between adult hysteria and youth curiosity.

It could be that the boy found it more fun to be with the other boys than just work alone on bling.

As an optional piece of uniforming that is allowed, the necker can be anything the unit wants as a necker. Square, triangular, bandana of any size, any color, any patterns, can have but not needed the BSA logo, It can be as plain or ornate as the unit wants.