Stosh

With the vague determination of 6-8 boys one must also be aware of the fact that even if the boys make decisions, there are still ways to "suggest" to the boys ways in which they might benefit from some other guidelines. There's a lot of negative discussion on the NSP's. Surely 8 new boys coming in without any assistance is going to be a disaster. But a qualified SPL will assign a TG to that group to help them make better judgments based on a few years of experience. Then there's no rule in the book about the NSP selecting an older scout to be the PL of the group either. This, along with the TG, gives guidance to the NSP directly from older boys who are focused on the success of the NSP. Then Little Johnny, younger brother to Big Billy, might want to be in his brother's patrol. But does Billy who's a sophomore really want his 6th grade brother hanging around? The high school freshman/sophomore boys are just starting their high adventure activities and don't want a 6th grader hanging around who isn't qualified to go along with the more mature plannings. I find that the NSP boys really don't know, nor do they want to hang with juniors and seniors either. They want to hang with their buddies that they hung with since Tigers. What I have witnessed over the years is that if Little Johnny has a big brother Billy, they quite often ask for big brother Billy to be the PL if he isn't assigned by the SPL to be the TG. This way, for at least a year anyway, the older patrol can still make high adventure plans and in most cases, PL Billy gets invited back into his old patrol for the duration of the HA activity. Billy may need the POR and would like to work with the NSP anyway for advancement credit. Solves two problems at the same time. Again, the NSP isn't necessarily an age designation in as much as a maturity, learning level designation. The new guys tend to hang together in their newbie status and the older boys, seeking HA and more challenging activities tend to hang together at the top. The "regular" patrols tend to be quite mixed with kind of a younger regular patrols where the boys are working on Star and Life and the older regular patrols grouping towards the Life and Eagle emphasis. That's not to say the Life/Eagle boys don't start functioning as a Venture patrol before that time, just not full time. With the boys making the decision on patrol composition, it is a very fluid process. TG and NSP PL's tend to operate more like DC's and have on one or two occasions in my troops, been the NSP boys' DC in Webelos II. It was only natural that they selected them because they were familiar with them and the DC enjoyed it enough to stay on with them as the PL or TG. Another consideration is that the boys can at anytime with the approval of the PL's move around in the patrols until they find a "home" There's no waiting 6 months, or 12 months, or certain rank levels before they can try out another patrol. Three weeks into the new year, Little Johnny decides hanging out with his older brother Billy isn't working out, he can go back with this buddies in the NSP. No one has to put up with personality clashes. Once the groups are somewhat determined, there might be 9 in a patrol, because older brother Billy returns to his former patrol after doing a year's stint as NSP TG. No rule against that. The first couple of months of every new year is quite interesting to watch as they boys work it out among themselves how they want to be set up. After that, except for one or two scouts, things settle down and things get back to "reasonable normal".

I was at national Jamboree and saw a troop from Arizona put their tents on oversized ground cloths. I politely suggested they tuck them under. I was informed that this is the way they always did it and that I should maybe tend to my own boys. Two days later we had a good storm and two of the AZ leaders came over and apologized. Even adults can learn along the way.

My boys tend to group up by age and I recommend they keep the numbers from 6-8 boys. More than that tends to be overwhelming for most fledgling new leaders. Heck, dens of 8+ boys are often times overwhelming for adults. Less than that, say 4-5 boys is still workable, but many of the tasks in the patrol need the members to wear two hats. This can be a bit confusing at times. I had one "patrol" of two boys that thought they could be PL/APL and "recruit" new members. They just wanted to hang out together. This worked out to their "advantage" until one of them was hurt the day before summer camp and the other boy spent his week "solo". After that, the two joined up with another patrol and that ended that experiment. If left alone, they can figure it out on their own.

One of my Eagles did a post-construction cleanup and landscaping around his church. The church members helping out-numbered the scouts 5 to one. Even the Grounds Committee members took their cue from the Scout. Scout did all the planning and followed the landscaping plan provided by the local business that was providing the plants. Worked out really nice.

If it was approved properly it should pass. One doesn't need to lead scouts or scouters to do the project.

The best solution is no solution. This is a question one should not even be asking if they are over 18. We tried this, we tried that, we did this, we did that and nothing seemed to work. Why is WE even trying to do any of it. Let the boys decide and if they screw it up, you are still off the hook. My boys have always liked the NSP, it works because they make it work. I have seen mixed patrols and they work...because the boys make it work. This is not an adult issue.

I looked in Ebay, for example, and found nothing. Even if Ebay had a few, the sizes could make the search a prolonged effort.

Unfortunately any other adult parent in the group can take pictures of scout activities and they don't have to adhere to any BSA requirements. They can instantly turn any and all photographs and names into an on-line viral event. Unless one bans all photographic technology from all one's scouting activities, the inevitable can happen.

The only reason adult leaders are overburdened and burnt out is because they are not applying the boy led part of the program. 1 or 2 ASM's knowledgeable for reference and the boys do the instruction. That's the classic approach. In today's culture of adults do it all runs counter to classic scouting, probably one of the biggest problems with the program today.

Good luck with that. I've been camping for over 60 years and what you are expecting is something I have never come across. I took my Web II's on a big outing on a primitive island adventure. Thunderstorm rolled through and basically flattened the camp. White caps on the lake made canoeing 100 yards back to mainland impossible. After the storm passed we threw a dry plastic ground cloth over all their wet sleeping bags, dug out dry clothing (everything they owned in their packs) and put them back to bed. They talked about it for years as the best camping they ever had. The name of the game is stay positive no matter how bad it gets. Go with back-up wool blankets....soaking wet they will still keep you warm. They do not lose their insulating properties when wet. Safety is your own concern! Having fun will just follow along!

There is nothing illegal about anyone taking pictures of anyone else in public. Once a person takes the picture, they own it and it's rights. Giving permission to take the picture only gives a photographer additional deterrent if the subject of the picture wishes to sue. There is nothing illegal about someone standing out side a school playground or even in a public park playground taking pictures of children. Only child pornography is illegal. If a parent doesn't want a picture taken of their child and posted on the internet they need to do due diligence and not have their child attend the activity. http://jezebel.com/5800238/should-photographing-other-peoples-kids-be-illegal

The congressional charter for Girl Scouts says the same thing for GIRLS. They have been more true to their charter than the BSA has. It wouldn't diminish anything other than the BOY Scout Eagle wouldn't be a BOY Scout rank. It would be a Co-ed Scout Eagle. If Ford Motor Company started making Chevrolet Silverados would the die-hard Chevy customer buy one? It's the same thing, right?

There are other Red Cross projects more prone to benefit the candidate than a blood drive. The Fire Campaign installs millions of smoke/fire alarms in people's homes every year. They need volunteers to coordinate from start to finish the project. Plan the scope of the project, map it out on the city map, canvas the neighborhood and then go out and install up to three alarms in any home that needs one. It would be a far more productive project than the blood drives because they are so automatic, they basically run themselves at this point. The volunteers just use the same "cheat-sheet" to run them over and over again. One can even sign up on line for an appointment and there are email reminders that are automatically get sent out and notices that one can't donate again until a certain time period has passed. How a candidate is going to find a place to lead in that process is beyond me.

Welcome to the forum, apologies for missing your post when it first came online.

What's the big deal we have SA meetings so that the other kids in school don't think our scouts are dorks.

You are correct, but not many of the modern translations do it correctly. Thus the idea stuck in everyone's head is not what the original author meant. There are dedicated Christians out there that take great pride in being a servant for the Lord, when in fact the word really means SLAVE in the original Greek manuscripts. Try and find anyone that will admit they want to be a slave to the Lord. They are few and far between.

One needs to remember that "classic" scouting is not necessarily going to produce classic scouts. The program of outdoor leadership is not the same thing as STEM laboratory leadership. Nor is it cyber leadership. One can also make the case for sports leadership. Sure, those things are fun, educational, interest boys of this age, but they are already being covered by other programs. Why can't the Scouts with their outdoor emphasis be the catalyst for a program that BSA used to excel in? Why does it need to be in competition with every other church, school and community program to the exclusion of the classical approach of the original program that was working well until the powers that be decided to "improve" it?

Of course it is about philosophy. Going with good/bad, one must take into consideration self-defense, capital punishment and wars when it comes to Thou shall not kill. If one were to stick to right/wrong, the wicket gets a bit sticky.

Everyone who's married, has a family, has a job, involved in any group activity is in some sense of the word a leader regardless of their talents, interests, or even motivation. Some lead towards what would be called the good of society, some lead towards what would be the evils of society. Only those who are true loners and hermits aren't leaders.

Try registering one's boys in summer camp as a patrol. GASP! Unheard of.... breaks with the camp structure.... etc. etc. etc. I have only one patrol in my troop of 6 boys. The world didn't end when they registered for summer camp. It can be done, it just means the adults would be too thinly spread to retain control of the situation in a larger troop. Why not enlist the boys to do the leadership instead. It's a novel idea, but it does work.

If anyone is doing any STEM scouting in my neck of the woods, I am totally unaware of it.

It's nice to know that there are people out there that are more paranoid than us Americans. The goal of a terrorist is to promote fear and hostility among people. They are succeeding.

I just lined my campaign hat with aluminum foil and the problem went away.

But the program would not be Boy Scouts of America. Boys earning BSA Eagle would not be the same as the boys and girls earning the SA Eagle. Might as well call it the YMCA Eagle or the Boy's and Girl's Club Eagle. Just sell the program to everyone, rake in the money and everyone is happy. After all Eagle is Eagle.... right?!!

Hebrew philosophy says things are good and bad, the Greek philosophy says things are right and wrong. The two don't always correlate.