Stosh

Close but no cigar! The definition of "leadership" has been here all along and yet with all the smoke and mirrors one can't see it here on the forum. As providers of the program are we to: Really? Good luck with that! Management by adult objective. Management by delegation with a bit of persuasion. leverage, or even mild threats, whatever it takes to "motivate" the other person. Quote I don't know where this servant leadership quote comes from but it's not the premise of the servant leadership defined by Robert Greenleaf. The only leadership is servant leadership because it's the only leadership that works. When politicians don't serve their constituents, they get replaced. When parents don't take care of their children, the state takes them away. When teachers don't insure the education of the children, they are replaced, or should be at least. When an authoritarian parent says, "My way or the highway". Why do the children choose the highway? Obviously the non-servant parent has lost focus on serving the needs of their child. SM's can do this and the boys vote with their feet. This dynamic goes on all the time. You don't take care of me, why do I need you? I'm outta here! And no matter how much you threaten, coerce, persuade, or whatever else one may have up their sleeve to punish, if I'm not going to be taken care of in the process, I'll just shut down because I know you may have the "power" to hurt me, but you don't have the power to resolve your needs and I can shut you down in a heartbeat. I may be your servant, but if I don't do the work, it doesn't get done. I hold the true power as the servant. This is why I constantly tell my boys in leadership, "take care of your boys" because it's the only way one will have legitimate leadership. As long as the boys feel they are being take care of, they'll hang around and help. If not, they're gone. So why should I help Johnny get his Eagle when he doesn't even know that I exist? What they don't realize is that these potential helpers on the project if they all walk away, the leadership and project go right down the drain. The workers/servants are holding all the true authority and power of leadership. We see the dynamic all the time, but we never quite figure out how to master it and thus we go through life never quite mastering this leadership thingy. Whadda ya mean, I have to be a servant to lead? That sounds stupid! I'm the boss, it's my way or the highway. ..... and all the workers opt for the highway.

AND.... you get to play in the fire and no one is going to yell at you?

As a minister I spent a lot of time visiting in nursing homes and I felt it horrible that they drugged some of these people into a stupor "so they wouldn't have to deal with them." Well, when I became guardian for my father before his death, it became quickly apparent that for his safety and the safety of everyone around, he was either going to be drugged into a stupor or confined to isolation. I chose the drugs. According to the World Health Organization, 25% of Americans suffer due to mental illness, be it depression, suicide, addiction, or whatever. Only about 20% of them receive treatment due to social stigmatic attitudes. The trendy issue of transgenderism has made the once defined disorder as the new norm and everything is a brave new world. Not everyone agrees. http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change As with any asylum, it's often difficult to tell the patients from the staff. But like any other medical issue, without appropriate treatment it may go away or it may not. Are we just supposed to wait it out or encourage it? Kinda hard to tell at times.

It might just be semantics to a lot of people until one gets out ahead on a skillfully laid out project and finds no one shows up. Gotta have followers to be a leader. No, it's not just semantics. Just look around. If no one is in your rear-view mirror, then one ain't much of a leader, now are they? And because one can't see the difference, they have no idea how to place expectations, nor whether or not they got any real value out of the program. For some the 2, 3 and 4 beads mean more than the program. That's not leadership.

If one has a job to do and does it and at the end of the job one looks around and there's no one there, he's been a good manager. The task is done and no one else was needed to do it. If one has a job to do and it requires people to assist in the completion of that project, the manager delegates out the breakdown of the tasks and in the end if everyone has done their job and finished their task, They have been a cog in the machine. That's management it works,no problem. But when the job's done and everyone wishes it didn't and then ask if there's anything else they can do for you.... that's leadership. It can't be taught, but it can be developed. To a certain degree WB/NYLT are fairly good management programs, but that's what they are management programs. Most educational processes are just that management processes that can be measured on the effectiveness of the teacher's management skills. Whether or not the students like the teacher or not falls into the leadership realm. How does one teach that in college? One can call WB/NYLT a leadership program but it's really not.

Without a doubt. That would truly fall into the realm of leadership of "taking care of his boys". If he takes care of them, they will follow by taking care of him. It's always surprising to everyone that leadership is more effect in getting results and even beyond than just plain management and project completion.

And that naturally leads to: they can sit next to each other at meal time, but they can't eat. And they can sit next to each other at campfire, but can't hold hands. And just exactly what does "getting frisky on a scouting event mean"?

And here's my rub with the program. As touted in red it's a LEADERSHIP program (red) and then the conversation continues with all attributes and dynamics that indicate it is a MANAGEMENT program (green). So which is it? If the people teaching it don't know and the people receiving it don't know, there's a lot of "don't know" going around. So what is it really?

There's a rule among these people that they are not allowed to look in any mirror. It's not that they won't reflect an image, it's because of the image that will reflect. Every time I meet people like this it always reminds me of a certain ruler's recently purchased wardrobe.

Welcome to the forum!

Sounds like the WB program is "for the boys" no matter what council you're from......

Selecting one's own tickets isn't such a bad idea. It was for me the only worthwhile part of the program. We had 2 years to complete the ticket. I was working as an ASM focused on the Cub Scout/Boy Scout transition. I went back to the feeder pack to pick up the Webelos II boys, but they didn't have any, but they had 6 Webelos I boys. I took them instead. I took over at the Feb Blue Gold and by the next year they were all Arrow of Light with another year to go. We planned out a big outing where they did all the menus, activities, etc. and we canoed out to a primitive campsite and spent the weekend. That fall they went into the Boy Scout troop as Tenderfoot Scouts, which they could do back then. Even if they didn't cross over as Tenderfoot, they would have earned it in 30 days anyway. They all earned First Class within the first 6 months. Sound like a bad idea? When they all aged out at 18 and went their separate ways, all 6 boys were Eagle Scouts, had been for at least 2-3 years earning Eagle when they were around 15-16 years of age. They were all in the same "patrol" even if the troop program didn't allow it, they camped together, ate together and even after the SM broke up the "patrol" they still hung out together. What I learned from my Ticket was that in spite of the program, in spite of the adults, some boys given the opportunity can do some pretty impressive things. By the way, those 6 boys were why I stayed with the troop as long as I did. I would have left a long time before because of the way the program was being run.

If one can change their gender simply by feeling that way, I'm going to get my children's pass to the movies tonight because my wife's been telling me I'm acting like a 12 year old. Might as well jump at it while I can. Me: Ma'am, I would like one child's ticket to tonight's movie. Ticket Lady: I'm sorry but you look to be a senior citizen. Me: But I feel more comfortable being 12. Ticket Lady: I'm sorry we can't do that, would you like a senior ticket it's the same price? Me: No Ma'am, I want the child's ticket and I don't like you stereotyping me as one who is chronologically advanced. Ticket Lady: I'm truly sorry but we simply can't do that. Me: Now you have offended me with your bigotry and you'll be hearing from my lawyer.

If the boy is smart enough to break down his work crew into two and each one starts on opposite ends of the trail needing restoration, it is obvious that the leader can't be in two places at the same time, but the project gets done in half the time.

So the question comes up.... Do we as adults lay out rules and expectations BEFORE the meal planning or do we do After Activity Reviews afterwards as a learning process? I don't do much on the front end, but seem to get a lot of traction in the after market area. Given freedom (within limits) doesn't help the boys make good choices. How far can we bend the rules and not break them becomes the focus rather than evaluation and learning following. So, who'd that heavy egg bake with all that sausage grease work out for you after paddling a canoe all day in the hot sun? "Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson." So why is everyone in such a hurry to avoid the experience by making up rules prior to the lesson? http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/trail-mix-many-calories-9884.html When I was reenacting at a national event where there was no refrigeration and modern food supplies were frowned upon, 2500 calories of trail mix of one's own making could get me by for the 4 day weekend. Put it in a cloth bag and nibble all day long. No one could figure out why I never cooked any meals. Now it isn't going to pass any MB requirements, but it does make for better eating than junk food such as poptarts and hot dogs.

When I was an ASM in one of my former troops, the patrol method, boy led was not even on the horizon. The adults ran the troop. Period! They did, however, allow the boys to do their own menus. One canoe trip the boys planned a hot dog lunch so that all they need do was boil the dogs and while this cauldron came to a boil, they went swimming and horsed around. I always brought my own food and was considered an outsider and one that didn't go along with the flow. (Surprise, surprise!) Anyway, while they boiled dogs, I made sweet and sour pork over rice for lunch out of my mess kit. I figured I wasn't going to canoe all afternoon with a gut full of dogs. Needless to say, it caught the attention of everyone and the boys called "foul". "How come Mr. Stosh gets good stuff and we don't" obviously chimed in by those who didn't prep the menu. Needless to say, on the next outing, I was called in to counsel the boys when they prepped the menus. The menus improved immensely after that. The same old, same old went by the wayside. The adults were vocally upset with me because now it entailed a lot more work for them. Their concerned bothered me for maybe 5 seconds before it went away. The boys were more active in their menu planning and they picked up the pace when it came time to do the cooking. 2 birds with one stone. The excitement waned after a while and when the boys went back to the old ways because it was easier.... except for a handful of scouts that formed up their own patrol (much to the adult's chagrin) and turned out some really good meals for themselves. Of course they couldn't use the troop's stoves, etc. because the troop was using it, but they became very proficient with cooking on wood fires. They borrowed my extra Dutch oven and basically set the tone for boy-led, patrol-method. After a year of that "hassle", the SM put his foot down, disbanded the patrol, and within a week, I was with a new troop. Some things just don't have a solution.

Psych games are difficult at best to be pulled off by professionals, but in the hands of the novice they are prone to produce contradictory results at best. I have no intention of spending that kind of money to find out what this is all about, but what I have noticed is a lot of people on the forum have had negative experiences with the activity which indicates to me what is being "taught" doesn't seem to be very helpful. As a one who studied psychology in college towards a degree, I participated in plenty of these "games" and yet none of them were run such that people were changing their majors and/or getting out of the program. Maybe we as adults ought to take a bit of the lesson we harp with the boys concerning playing in the fire. Doesn't sound like the program is run such that those running the game are all that well versed in its dynamics and purpose.

I have been one to present expectations higher than their current level. It is surprising how well, when given the opportunity do step up to the challenge. However, one has to be careful that one's expectations doesn't overwhelm them and cause frustration and disappointment. Constant reassurance goes a long way and finding little successes along the way make for a more pleasant journey for the kids. One has to be careful that these expectations (First Class advancement in the first year) are carefully laid out and clearly defined "according to the book". Kids who known the boundaries are more sure of themselves and know what it is that is expected. Scouting in a good place to learn failure, but those failures need to be because of their choices, not because of unreasonable expectations placed on them by the adults.

Hmmmm, making up rules to keep the boys healthy vs. teaching them healthy habits so that one doesn't need the rules......... I wonder which is more effective?

One needs to adjust one's statistics to the percentage of the population. Alcohol and tobacco kill more people simply because they are legal drugs. Yet more people die of diabetes and obesity issues and nutritional concerns than any illegal drugs. It's just a matter of picking your poison the the buffet of deadly desserts. Since the 1980's the US has been near the top of the list of malnourished countries in the world. Overweight and malnourished at the same time. Whadda country, eh?

I took the course in 1993 and it was a good SM Fundamentals course. Didn't really do anything for me in terms of "leadership". Now it just keeps the 21-Cent WB's busy trying to get me to "upgrade" to the "real" WB program. Sorry, not going to happen. Neither is a 3rd bead which seems to be the biggy topic right now. Those that want to take it, fine. But I don't see it as any major jump in leadership training I was led to believe back in the '90's.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/high-fructose-corn-syrup/faq-20058201

What's he doing hanging around the kids when he should be off drinking coffee. It's their compass course, not his. Sometimes that 300' of separation is for the protection of the kids.

Right or wrong, always go with the kids. Then if there's blame to be passed around, your name doesn't come up.

Every morning and every night, simply read through them thoughtfully. In 3 weeks time one can have it memorized.