Stosh

A lot of good ideas floating around thus far, all of which I tend to agree. Yet one must also remember that: 1) the camp has medical staff to handle such emergencies, most of which are at a higher level of training than the troop's scouters. A RN or EMT can do better for my boys than I can and they have the equipment to handle such things. That leaves me more in a consoling role than actual medical assistance. 2) A walk around on Monday to check out the quality of the MB instructors will take a very short time to determine whether or not the boys are receiving decent instruction. The more dangerous MB's, i.e. shooting sports, archery, etc. will have qualified range instructors to monitor the activity. Again, a higher level of qualification than most troop scouters. 3) Program communication is the responsibility of the scouts, not the scouters. Yes, there's a meeting of SM's to give out information to keep the adults "up-to-date" on the day's activity, but the SPL meeting does the same thing. Many times, the SM/SPL meeting is the same thing with both present. I don't see this as a "must attend" by scouters, but serves as a general backup to less experienced SPL's. If the SPL is not up to the task, maybe he should be sending someone who is. 4) The camps have spent more time developing training for the adults these past few years in the camps that I have attended and I use the opportunity to "review" many of the skills being taught in the SM Fundamental level of training. It also offers one insight into the quality of the S->FC instruction being done by the camp. I also rely on the feedback from the boys when they test out of their requirements if the program is serving it's purpose as well. I have had to do the Totin' Chit over because the training fell well short of its intended purpose. This was brought to my attention by the boys. The same holds true for any MB classes. I don't need to attend them if the boys are not satisfied with the instruction taught. 5) It really isn't the job of the troop scouters to have to monitor the quality of the camp. This is something that should be done at the troop level each day which make take only 5 minutes or 30 minutes at the most. One must realize that the boys are paying for a quality program at summer camp and if that isn't happening at that camp, one needs to find a camp that does. Out of all the camps I have attended, and there have been plenty to choose from, I have found that for the most part, the troop scouters are pretty much either redundant or not needed to insure the safety and instruction for the boys. That pretty much leaves the troop scouters plenty of free time to either get out of the way of the boys and their leadership or they tend to meddle where they don't belong. The only time I have been "involved" with issues of the camp have been in private discussions with the camp directors. I owe it to them to insure the program they want for the boys is being fulfilled by their staff members. The good camp directors don't get any "visits" from me. Only once did I have to go "over the head" of the camp director and discuss an issue with their council camping committee chair. It was resolved in short order. For the most part, the scouter has two options while at summer camp. 1) Take the necessary training offered to learn something to take back to their troops, or 2) monitor the quality of the camp program to insure a good experience for their boys. Other than that, they can run to town to pick up treats/rewards for the boys, play cards, hang out with the boys around the campfire, take a nap or whatever they wish to do with their vacation free time. Generally I have some "project" to do/make while at camp that can be used to instruct the boys. Last summer I made a rocket stove out of a 3# coffee can and cooked all my meals on it. The boys had as much fun with that as they did with the patrol's shepherd's stove for cooking for the week. The year before, I brought my kayak and spent a lot of time fishing as well. None of which necessitated the involvement of the boys.

If all the boys are in MB "classes" from 9:00 am - 12:00 pm and 1:30 pm - 4:30 pm, why would the adults need to hang around all that much? I usually have a book to read, games to play with other leaders in the leader's lounge, wander off exploring on my own in a new camp, make something fun for scouting (last time was a rocket stove I cooked on all week long), etc. If it is impossible to supervise 20 boys scattered all over the camp, why try? Just doesn't make sense to me.

Why look outside the troop. Your boys have the capability to police themselves. For example, if I am addressing the group for some reason, I always use a normal "inside" voice. If there's interruption going on anywhere in the room, I merely start over from the beginning. Usually after 2 or 3 restarts the boys themselves make sure everyone is paying attention. What is remarkable, if the parents in the back are making the interruption, same thing happens including the boys telling the parents to take their discussion out of the room....please. I also don't use "Sign's Up!" either. I wait until I have everyone's attention the begin. If after a few seconds I don't get the room to quiet down, I start anyway, go for a few seconds, pause, start over, (see paragraph above). After the PL's get done yelling at their patrol members to pay attention, we can get things done. I have even had some of my boys do this and it works wonders on an unruly crowd. Never have to raise my hand with "Sign's Up". Never have to raise my voice. Just need a little patience for them to learn the system. It's remarkable how even the ADD/ADHD kids can focus long enough to get through Mr. Stosh's comments...

This whole concept of blaming parents for their child's indiscretions has been around for a long time. Public schools have been touting this rhetoric for some time now. Until one puts the blame where it belongs, on developing responsible children who own up to the consequences of their choices, nothing will change. Children are not victims because of their choices, Blaming parents is not the answer, blaming the kid's for poor choices is. This is how they learn. You touch a hot stove, you get burned. You mess up, you clean up. It's call taking responsibility for one's own actions and it hasn't been part of the curriculum of life for many years now.

One could always make the case that the Pet Rock could be used as a weapon..... Just sayin' It would be far more destructive than a PopTart chewed into the shape of a gun. And there should be an outright ban on S'mores, those roasting sticks are seriously dangerous sharpened to a point. A flaming marshmallow dropped in your lap is going to do more damage than one would want to think about, and with squirt guns banned, there's no hope of being rescued.

Yes, that's why I said check with the parents. They should know the medical and school issues right off.

If one has a scout that needs a hand manipulative, check with the parents. If the school he attends has done an assessment and determined he needs it, by law he cannot be denied it anymore than denying someone the use of any other medical or learning device such as wheel-chairs, braces, computer, talk-board, use of one's hands to communicate etc. which are distractions as well. I would check it out before banning such items. A Scouter is to be obedient and courteous as well. The scout is in a learning environment, he may need the tools to thus learn.

They are not supposed to make noise. The intention of the item is to focus attention, not make noise. People who drum fingers or pencils, click pens, etc. are those that need one.

I was having trouble earlier, thought it was internet connection.

Losing a neckerchief slide, a fork, a messkit, even the handbook has it's consequences, but a $100+ cellphone? That's CONSEQUENCES in spades. I have always been a fan of the notion that a lot of the ADD/ADHD is a direct result of Sesame Street. Short, flash, high impact visual stimulus for hours on end and it conditions the brain to shorter and shorter attention spans. If flashing lights can trigger epileptic seizures, what else is happening to the focused, intense world of video gaming and cellphone screen time. It's addictive to the developing mind and runs contrary to the whole notion of community. Johnny: I talk to my friends every day. Dad: Really? Did you talk with your mouth, or "talk" with your thumbs? We are a society of electronic hermits.

The best life lessons are learned by failure. Not only did these scouts learn, they will in fact pass on their experiences around the campfire for the next generation of scouts. Even then the next generation is going to maybe have to learn the lessons over again on their own, but hey, that's life.

If one is in the habit of teaching boys to make good choices, banning anything is just an adult's way of making choices for them. Instead of having possession of a cellphone or not might be one choice that is taken away, but hauling a library of books out into the woods for nature identification purposes verses a cellphone is quite cumbersome. Learning to make choices with a certain resource tool is quite another. I have found over the years that even if they use the phone improperly 95% of the time, the 5% is still a choice that can be made properly. That percentage can change over time as the scout matures. While I don't use my cellphone for entertainment, I do use it for a substitute for the Scout Handbook on a regular basis. I look up advancement, plant identification, taking pictures of things I need to look up at a future time, etc. On occasion I give the Mrs. an evening call to tell her about my day with the boys. The opportunity to learn proper choices, referencing items on the go, and maybe even a personal contact are all opportunities one would not have at their disposal with an outright ban on the electronic items. Yes, a Gameboy item of only entertainment purposes has no place in the woods, but the choice to leave it behind at home is a lesson one would want the boys to eventually pick up on. A ban would also remove the possibility of losing it, having it stolen, broken, or useless due to battery discharge, but where are all those lessons going to be taught if not in the maturation program of Scouting?

My mom had 16 stitches in the arch of her foot having stepped on a tent stake while camping. I got 10 stitches in the bottom of my foot walking barefoot on a beach having made contact with a piece of quartz. My buddy got 5 stitches swimming in a river after someone left behind a glass beer bottle. I often wonder who much grief we could avoid by not taking chances. I always wear heavy boots while in camp and I haven't had a foot injury since I was 10 years old. Sometimes in life we get dealt a poor hand, but after the first time, learning to play the hand better is always a better choice in the next time it comes along.

I like your style. Best lessons are those taught at a practical level. "Bummer, I bet you never do that again!"

I wonder where the expression "Death by GPS" came from? My map and compass requires no recharging, works everywhere in the world, never worried about whether it would work when needed.

We had a gully washer of a rain once and I was sleeping in an old military dog tent. Had a ton of water run through the tent. I was on a cot with 4" legs and my pack sitting on 3 rocks on the other side. Boys couldn't figure out why I was the only one that was dry the next morning. It took a little cramped aerobatics, but it can be done. I have an A-Frame Civil War tent as well that allows me to stand up, have a full military sized cot, lawn chair and plastic tub as a nightstand. Hooks on the ridgepole hold the pack off the ground as well As long as everything is picked up and off the ground, they work great. I find that often times the floored tents retain water better than just letting it run through. With a heavy rain, just pull the cot to the middle so one doesn't touch the canvas and go to sleep.

The day's coming when Scout A texts Scout B who's sitting on the other side of the campfire...... The lack of social norms and community is surprisingly weak because of this electronic age. One doesn't need a face-to-face anymore. One's egocentric worlds are not going to last in a world necessitated by community. These electronics only make matters worse, regardless of how acceptable the excuse may sound.

I can't find my cell phone? Not my problem. I dropped it down the latrine? Not my problem. Can't find your charging cord? Not my problem. Battery went dead and you need a charge for Photography MB? Not my problem. There's no signal here. Not my problem. Somehow my screen got cracked. Not my problem. No, I can't call your phone to help you find it, I have to save my battery for important phone calls. Not my problem. It works for cellphones, it works for flashlights, it works for neckers, it works for wallets, it works for Scout Handbooks, it works for just about anything a Scout drags out into the woods. It's under the chapter titled, "Taking Responsibility for Oneself." in Mr. Stosh's book. "How to be an Adult". I had a scout ask me once if I ever lost something while out camping. I said, "Sure, every now and then." He said, "That must mean you're not an adult." I said, "No, I'm an adult because I don't run around in camp trying to get someone else to solve my problem for me." If Scouts are going to drag expensive electronics out into the woods, they had better come prepared to take care of it, because I'm not taking responsibility for it and I let my parents know it.

I had an older scout patrol use the cell phone to call home and leave an outing early leaving the younger boys to clean up camp. The older boy PL was finishing up on his Eagle and was scheduling his EBOR. It was unfortunate for him the council required a "glowing" recommendation from the SM. Well, he made his choice, and I made mine. This recommendation is not required according to the National requirements, so I just sat on it. The scout had plenty of time to Eagle, but eventually we talked about how his choices applied to his leadership and he was given a chance to prove this recent choice was an anomaly and not the norm. One moment of electronic indiscretion, turned into 6 months of hard word to prove to the SM he was worthy of a "glowing" recommendation for Eagle. Regardless of the rules, or lack thereof, teaching moments are always there. The scout Eagled and at his ECOH, I was presented with his Mentor Pin. Something must have soaked in. Once word got around about cellphone usage, they became a rarity in the troop and no rule on cellphone usage was ever necessary. People learn better from their mistakes, but only if learning is part of the process.

I work around them. The more they use them the quicker they go dead. If they miss something because they had their nose glued to the screen.... not my problem. If someone goes home early from camp never to come back to scouts again,... PL wasn't taking care of his boys..... again, not my problem. I don't create, allow or even listen to excuses for bad choices with electronics. It's their choice.... their problem. If one needs it for Photography MB or GPS for Geocaching? Make good choices on conserving the battery. I as an adult, I can keep my phone operational for the full week of summer camp without a re-charge. I expect my boys to do the same. If they can't, not my problem.....

All from the genus Quercus Red Oaks Northern Red Oak Southern Red Oak Black Oak Pin Oak Scarlet Oak Shumard Oak Cherry Bark Oak Nuttall Oak Turkey Oak Blackjack Oak White Oaks White Oak Burr Oak Overcup Oak Post Oak Oregon White Oak Swamp White Oak California White Oak Chestnut Oaks Swamp Chestnut Oak Chestnut Oak Chinkapin Oak Willow Oaks Live Oak Willow Oak Water Oak Laurel Oak Shingle Oak

That's why I posted the video, it's an all-important opportunity we have with other people's kids. Especially those parents who haven't figured out how to be good parent/adult role models.

Stop by the house and cook a meal for me, make sure you figure in the cost of the meal and mileage to get here and when you're done I have a couple of patches you can sew on my uniform. THEN you can have the MB.

No private in the Army joins to become a general. I always get concerned when a boy joins Scouts just to get his Eagle. If he joins a sports team just to win a title? Is that good enough reason to play a sport? I think your "Little One" is just fine where's he's at. If his friends all want to hang with Scouting, even better.

The original intent of the post was to show how MB's if done correctly can go a long way to fill in the maturity gap seen by today's "adults". They can't cook, they can't sew, they can't balance a checkbook, but do drop a tremendous amount of personal freedom when they lock down their future in massive debt to satisfy a current urge. Maybe, from the reactions on the forum we need a Forum MB to get the discussion a bit deeper than what it is. But then again, we're dealing with a classroom of thousands here.