Stosh

We have different ways of handing things. If a scout blows his money early in the week, knows he screwed up, and is feeling bad about it, we have ways to "work around" the problem. The SM (me) will "make a deal". I will loan them the money and either they can pay me back with interest (Personal Finance MB preparation) or you can work it off. "Working it off" usually entails a contract of leadership development over the course of the next year. Boys that choose the "work it off" option tend to turn into some of my best scouts.

I don't "officially" endorse the indiscriminate use of discrimination. There's a reason why the root words are similar. Indiscriminate means without reason, cause, or fair/just judgment, just random application of harm to others is not appropriate. Discriminate, incriminate, indiscriminate, criminal, all come from the root word crime, and how we use words to imply what that means, i.e. the judgment of guilt. You cannot use our facilities because we don't like you and what you are doing, reflects a different judgment than we do not allow the use of our facilities for such activities because it goes against what we have judged to be inappropriate. One is a judgement against the person, the other is a judgment against the activity. Sometimes it's difficult to tell discrimination because of this. Other times it it explicitly obvious. When I commented we all discriminate, it means we all judge, sometimes with due justice (discriminate) sometimes merely randomly without justice (indiscriminate). Sometimes we judge the person, sometimes the activity. And sometimes we even make the judgment BEFORE even meeting the person or experiencing the activity (pre-judice). Judicial process of thought and reason are acceptable to me, Pre-judicial processes and reason are not. Indiscriminate rules are a problem for me, but discriminate rules have thought and reason behind them. Sometimes we need to actually think about what we are saying rather than just spouting out words that sound good, might be socially PC, but have a meaning far different than what we think it means.

Bummer! Making poor choices really sucks. Maybe next year you can think this through better, but for the most part, your choices are not my problem. "A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine."

My guess would be a council organized activity where one-on-one parent/son is not required. At family camp, pack and council leadership take more active part in chaperoning the participants. Parent/son is a one-on-one responsibility of the parent at the activity to watch their kid. Doesn't sound like siblings are at such outings. When I was WDL, I took my den on a weekend outing which is not on the chart, Webelos overnight is, but weekend is not. So I just required a parent for every scout, that's parent/son and that is allowed. So, seriously, some of these "activities" of age appropriateness are based on adult participation and supervision requirements rather than what's an appropriate activity for someone of that age. So with that in mind, I would say Family Camping is more council/district driven activities and Parent/Son is more open for activities because the parent, not the council/district, is responsible for the welfare of the scout.

I usually don't worry about the trading post issues. If poor choices are to be had, they usually resolve themselves by Tuesday when they run out of money for the week. No camp t-shirt, no camp water bottle, no more treats, etc. and "....it's not my problem" after that. What bugs me the most are the trading posts that sell pizza before the evening meal. So much for the patrol meals and hanging with your patrol buddies when you have dinner at the trading post before them.

My concern would mainly be in the area of 2nd offense on this issue. I don't mind helping young people address the bumps along the way as they mature into adulthood, but when those efforts are useless then it's time to move on to a more receptive individual. There's a bit of me that always wants to give someone a second chance, benefit of the doubt, etc. But after 4 years this lad has not figured it out. If the scout is on the verge of aging out, that would put his first offense at <13 years of age. That's pretty young to be involved in the drug culture, and now the evidence indicates he's still there 4 years later. It doesn't appear he wishes to make any major changes in his lifestyle and that in itself tells me he wouldn't be a good candidate for Eagle.

I find the time I'm most needed is after lights out and the new scouts get a bout of homesickness. Otherwise there's the occasional trading post flu where they over-did the sweets and are now regretting it. It seems to be my job to escourt the boy to the nurses station so he can contemplate his poor choices. Occasionally a boy will want me to help him with his advancement, which in summer camp I will do so as to not drag the other boys from their activities. I make myself available by reading while in the neutral area where boys and adults can meet if necessary. Most the days I get quite a bit of reading in.

@Dmward Welcome to the forum. Lots of advice, but I need more information on what's going on. Second offense... could be a deal breaker for me. People learn from past mistakes, obviously this boy hasn't. What drugs? Prescription? marijuana? Did he buy drugs or did he steal from someone's medicine cabinet? Under-aged youth in possession of tobacco or alcohol can be construed as possession of illegal drugs. Is he a user or a dealer? One does not walk in and take over as SM from off the street. How long have you known this boy? Way too many questions to toss out advice.

I'm sure that one's local church isn't going to host a neo-nazi or clan rally on premises just because they think they can pick up a convert or two. Discrimination isn't necessarily the evil word everyone makes it out to be. To a certain extent EVERYONE does it.

The camp I will be attending this summer requires only one of the adult leaders present on-site at any given time. All high adventure patrols are off-side for the whole week anyway, supervised by staff. The camp hosts an appreciation golf outing and steak dinner for the adults during the week.

The Catholic Church touts itself as a Christian based group. AHG touts itself as a Christian based group. GS/USA does not. End of discussion.

It all depends on how the troop is set up. Information/orientation to new scouts needs to be done by an adult if it is an adult led troop and the PL of the scout, or the TG if they have a NSP, if it's a boy led troop. If the PL or TG isn't doing his job, then one heads for the SPL to find out why these scouts are in a POR and not functioning properly. When all else fails, even in a "theoretical" boy led program, it's time to visit with the SM. Worse case scenario, the Troop committee is responsible for the implementation of the BSA program. By the time one gets to that place, it is obvious there's been a train wreck somewhere along the way.

The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod made a similar pronouncement due the the changes in the BSA, how is this any different? If the principles and policies of an organization conflict with that of another, why would it have any affect on the members. They have a choice to go anywhere they wish to go, even if the organizations differ. If a member of the LCMS or Catholic diocese doesn't want their children involved in an organization they can move. A CO has that same option available to them. If a Catholic Church shuts down a BSA or GS/USA unit because they no longer wish to support the policies of those organizations, the members have a free choice of staying with the program in a different location. Just as CO's and parent organizations to CO's can make choices, so can individual members. If the parent organizations drop one program and go with another it is no different than a parent making such a decision either.

One has to take into consideration there are more reasons to leave camp temporarily than to play golf. One might want to get an ice cream treat for the boys that isn't available at the trading post. One might want to get another canister or two of gas because the boys are running out. One might want to get off premises because the camp doesn't allow smoking on-site. One might want to head into town to pick up something the boys forgot to plan for and need. One might want to find an ATM to get cash so the boys who want something at the trading post and are running short of funds. One might not have cellphone service and need to find a location to make a call for work, to call a parent, to call home to check on family. etc. Sometimes there's a fairly good reason for a scouter to leave camp TEMPORARILY for the boy's benefit as well as personal. Each reason should be discussed with discretion with the SM or senior scouter on-site.

In our summer camp setup there are three areas of congregating. The boys have their area, the adults have their area and a third dining fly is located in no-man's land for any communication that needs to be passed between the two groups. That area is always close to the site flag pole so we can have am and pm flags as a troop. I carry a cell phone as does my second. If the camp needs to get in touch with me, it's by cell phone. If I need to get in touch with my second, it's by cell phone. If my second is a smoker, then he's going to be out of camp on a regular basis. And if someone gets bent out of shape about that, remember, the camp requires 2 adults. If the smoker doesn't go, no one goes. End of discussion. Sorry, but sometimes one has to pay the Devil to make it work for the boys.

While BSA and GS/USA provide opportunity for the youth in America, certain religious organizations don't want that kind of opportunity that is promoted for their youth. I have switched churches because of the opportunities they offered that I didn't want to be part of. No difference here. Parents decide what activities their children are involved in depending on the program offered. The Catholic church is simply exercising its polite "No thank you." to the GS/USA. They have the interest of the girls in mind in that they are allowing the girls to age out rather than just dumping the program immediately. Is it a big political issue? No, it's nothing more than the freedom to vote with one's feet. After a hundred years of history, the CO's are walking out the door? Well, what changed? the CO or the BSA-GS/USA? In as much as one would like to blame the CO for abandoning the youth group, a major case can be made for the shoe to be on the other foot. I'm thinking that the Catholic church is going with the AHG because it more aligns with what they want their youth to be exposed to. It won't be long before Trail Life/USA hits the scene for the boys.

Yeah, I think more adult involvement is always a good answer. I have often wondered whether the write-up is more important than the project. It would seem that every time I turn around this whole process becomes one more step convoluted that it requires adults to step in and make things right. If a scout is trying to scam the system by doing a lousy job on a project that some beneficiary signs off on a project just to get by, then after all those years "A Scout is Trustworthy" really doesn't mean much to him. One does not need a 10-page detailed report of every penny and every minute spent on every aspect of the project to let everyone know that.

I hear tell the animal rights people got in the faces of the Circus Maximus people and without those horses, it just wasn't the same. Maybe that's where the Amish got their horses.

Next thing to go is Amish farming.

Indian elephants have been domesticated for years. Oxen, horses, donkeys, mules, sheep, chickens, etc, were all "wild" at one time. Work animals, including elephants have been used by man for a lot longer than RB&BB. There are show animals in a circus and there are working animals in the circus, sometimes they may be dual functioning. An elephant used to put up the big top might also have an act in the circus, same for the humans working the show. I'm thinking the big cats and smaller animals are probably the only animals that they haven't been able to put to work. The whole demise of the circus is just for elephants..... all of which are domestic Indian elephants, the African variety are way to difficult to teach.

In all my years of attending many summer camps, I have never had all the scouters off-site at one time. As far as "being there", we have always had one scouter "on-duty" available at a moment's notice. However, at the same time we have had other scouters, off fishing, going to town for treats, exploring the far corners of the camp, out in the middle of the lake sailing, etc. If a boy breaks a leg, the camp medical will be there (usually 2) Camp director, emergency medical people to transport and a scouter from the troop. That should be enough people there to handle the situation. A few extra camp staff to guide in the emergency vehicle if needed. After the first scouter arrives on the scene, everyone else from the troop is pretty much a looky-loo.

Welcome to the forum!! That may have more to do with the troop leadership than with MB's. If done properly, most of the MB's are worked on and earn OUTSIDE the program of the troop. While I'm not wildly excited about MB "schools" and the high amount of time spent on MB's at summer camp, it does allow the scout to rub elbows with boys from different troops. This expanded awareness of scouting beyond their own troop is a nice side-effect of the MB program.

It depends. If the money was raised for the purpose of the project, yes, it belongs to the beneficiary. If the money was raised by the candidate by mowing lawns and shoveling walks, and he pays for the project out of his own earned income, then the money belongs to the boy.

It's a sad day for America when such things cease to be because of the political dynamics hold sway over the entertainment value. The last circus I saw (not RB&BB) was worth the opportunity. It was set up at the local ball diamond in a small town and the elephant was used to pull the canvas to the top of the poles. That's something event he civic center circuses don't provide. At least my children got the opportunity. It's a shame my grandchildren won't.

Welcome to the forum. Many moons ago I was in your shoes. As time passes those shoes will change to boots and it's a journey worth taking!