Stosh

As long as the boy transfers, which is quite easy to do for $1, I'm onboard. Boys that simply quit scouting, easiest solution to the problem, I have my own problems with. No boy should be leaving scouting because of the drama caused by troop politics. Keep looking, as has been said, no two troops are alike.

Then it's easy, find a different counselor. If one has a partial from summer camp, they don't have to go back and have the summer camp counselor finish it up. Any registered Camping MB counselor can solve this problem easily.

This is the Brave New World we now live in. As I have said since I was in high school, "It's only a matter of time before it comes to America." Why would we be exempt from such things here?

I know that personal camping with family doesn't count for scouts, but it is unclear to me if we are talking a Camping Merit Badge requirement where the MB counselor determines 20 nights of camping or a troop requirement where the SM determines the rules of camping. It makes a world of difference to this discussion.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2011/02/coed.aspx

From my take on the OP first post, I don't think the SM is the Camping MB counselor. If he/she is, then finding another MB Counselor should not be any big deal. With a signed MB Blue Card, the SM can't withhold it. If the scout finishes all the requirements for Eagle, has the Blue Cards, then an appeal should not be a problem.

My old troop used TroopMaster software. It did the job but cost more than the freebie ScoutBook.

Or... it could be that the camp closest to Anchorage is drawing urban youth that aren't as excited about bugs as the more rural units around rural camps. Having 4 council camps (yes, Alaska is a big state...but sparsely populated) is very expensive and as the council says, closing it down is not the same as selling it off. I can see the handwriting on the wall. I just got back from a district spring camporee. My district is the "urban" district and did not offer a camporee, but the other two districts did. I had to go outside the district with my boys this past weekend.

The reason might have something to do with the fact that Jesus didn't have any zero tolerance policies and tended to forgive those around who were repentant and faithful. Probably wouldn't have a Pope today had Jesus not forgiven Peter for his lying (denying he knew who Jesus was). Not being sarcastic here, dead serious.

Welcome to the forum. As far as your duties as Advancement chair, there are no special requirements except maintaining advancement records of the information from the boy's handbooks, keeping track of when they have fulfilled the requirements, recording the information with the local council, buying the patches and making sure they are ready for presentation at the Court of Honor. That usually involves SM and SPL signature in some cases. A check of the Blue Cards and validating that information is also necessary for the MB's. That information will not necessarily be in the scout's handbook. I did this job for years, it's really just a lot of paperwork, but it's not that hard. There are a couple of different software packages, including the BSA software that has made the job a lot easier than it was 30 years ago.

This is not an issue that involves the SM, it is an issue that involves only the Camping MB counselor. The Camping MB counselor should be the one in the discussion and I would highly doubt he/she cares one way or another with what troop the camping experience is registered. If the current MB counselor is "best buddies" with the SM or is an ASM in the troop, it might be a bit different, but with a partial sign off from a registered MB counselor, that still doesn't mean the scout can't finish up the partial with another more objective yet sympathetic counselor in the council. I am a registered MB counselor for Camping. If a scout comes to me with all the Camping requirements checked off except # of nights, I really don't care if that requirement is fulfilled by 15 different troops. The requirement does not say it has to be counted only if the campout is with one's home troop! A good MB counselor will know this.

If the boy does not get jail time, I would ask him to finish the project whether he gets his eagle or not. It would say a lot about his character and dedication to scouting. There are a lot of good Life scouts out there in the world doing a world of good. If he is incarcerated, it might be just until he's 18 and I would be open to him serving as an ASM if his attitude changes. Some of the best teachers against such illegal activities are those that have gone through it. I for one can't say, "Been there, done that." and carry only a SM credential on it. If I have an ASM that says that, his credibility to influence young lives is tremendous. Just make sure that regardless of one's decision it doesn't involve burning any bridges unless the scout himself does it.

http://www.trendingly.com/pacific-crest-trail

Currently our council camp rents out weeks to various other organizations. Eventually I believe councils will reverse this and start renting other camps from other organizations. It is also a possibility that many of the poorer run camps are closing, kinda like weeding out the gene pool of summer camps. I have no idea how many BSA camps are located in our state, but it covers councils from at least 4 different states. The camp my boys have selected this year is 1.5 hour drive for us and a 3 hour drive for their own council's troops. Go figure. I also know of one camp from a MN council that is about 5 miles away from another WI council's camp. Everyone has their own little pet project of a summer camp and it's going to be a bad few years sorting out the problem. Going year around just isn't enough to keep these camps going for many of these councils. Our local council camp is a 15 minute drive and it offers the opportunity to go home every night and make sure mom or dad picks them up for their sports activities instead of staying in camp. That's a major push for our troop to avoid.

The selection of camps, in my estimation, should be based on the wishes of the boys. If they attend a camp and have a negative experience, I find no place in my program to insist (as an adult) that they need to keep repeating that mistake. Sure, there are camps that are well run and have great programs, but year after year gets pretty boring for the boys. They wish to try new things and I have no problem with that as a basis for decision making. For 10 years now, our council has decided to do a Spook-a-ree every year in place of a regular camporee. After one or two times while the boys are new, it's a fun program, but eventually the boys have decided that going to work for the council to put on a Cub Scout program isn't what they want anymore. It's been a long time since we have gone to the council's fall event. If a camp can't figure out what people want, then they have to suffer the consequences just like everyone else. No, I do not like the idea that camps are closing, but people aren't attending them for specific reasons and as far as I can tell, they won't do much to change until they start evaluating why people aren't coming and address the issue with not necessarily better programing, but at least a more diverse selection of program offerings. Our local camp has done a lot to add a week of Webelos resident camp and a week of NYLT which has kept our numbers up, but that also means that there are two less weeks available to the boys for traditional summer camping. Then one must also remember that which weeks they are offered makes a difference as well. When we as a troop make decisions about the calendar we take into consideration, school, sports, family and church activities. The council, on the other hand, says these are the 4-6 weeks available, take it or leave it. Why would they be upset then when the boys decide to leave it? Some council camps I have attended have different options for the various weeks, or even for every week. For those boys who find camping for the first time at summer camp exciting, there's a program for that. The older boys, who are into sports and work, will pass on that, but then the camps offered off-site high adventure of canoeing, rock climbing, and other more advanced programming to entice those that have become bored with the regular routine, have all the MB's offered and find themselves with nothing to do for the week. The world has changed, either get in step with the changes or fall by the wayside. Too many camps who can't make the changes simply die on the vine and that's unfortunate. I had a boy drop out of summer camp this year because of summer baseball scheduling. That means there is no camp in the United States that can offer him any program that can accommodate his schedule for that week we have set aside to attend camp. He can go as a provisional scout on a different week, but what's the fun of that? The only way a summer camp can beat that system is to provide something that is better than baseball. It can be done, but with the current structure of summer camping, I don't see that as coming around soon anytime. It may mean the camp closes before they figure it out. We do make it a tradition in our troop to have a winter event at the local camp, but with a small number of boys in the troop, it is quite pricey. $150 for a weekend cabin rental with 5 boys? That's $30 for just the cabin, add on food and programming, and the boys tend to take a pass on that as well.

It's all relative........ .... and I have relatives that fit both categories

When I was a pastor, I had no idea where the money came from or where it went. That's why they have a treasurer. When I was an ASM, I had no idea where the money came from or where it went. That's why they have a treasurer. When I was a crew Advisor, I had no idea where the money came from or where it went. That's why they have a treasurer. I was recently asked to be treasurer of our church's youth group. I took one look at the financial situation of the current checkbook and politely said, "No thank you," and handed the mess back to them. I volunteer to work the program. It's not my problem what goes on with the operation of the unit/group I'm involved in. I did hear, after the fact that there was a problem in the Venturing Crew. A boy quit and didn't return borrowed equipment. The treasurer took his parents to small claims court knowing that even if they won the case, they would be hard pressed to get the equipment back. So when the parents didn't show up for court, he asked the judge to issue a contempt of court arrest warrant for them. He did and we got our equipment back. I never would have thought of that, but then I do better with programming than I do with the politics of running the group. I have an ASM that does nothing but the paperwork for the unit. I have treasurer that handles all the finances. My CC handles rechartering. And I spend my time working the program for the boys. I found out a long time ago that one's tenure is longer if one stays in their own lane.

It's not always about listening either. One has to communicate clearly and precisely or the active listener still won't "hear" what is being said. This should be obvious from the comments on the forum. Even when given time to re-read a comment a few times, contemplate the various meanings meant to be said, there remains a huge chasm of understanding that can still cause misunderstandings. Toss in a typo or two and the "listener' can only guess what is trying to be conveyed.

I signed on as a MB counselor in my council a few years back. I marked it available to all units in the council. I never heard a word from them since. I have no idea if I'm still on the roster. And by the way, with record keeping like that it really doesn't make a whole hill of beans to me any more. If I get a call I'll check with the Council to see if I'm registered. If not. I'll sign up again.

Like the I&P forum, once it gets into the political realm, it's pretty much a dead horse going nowhere.

One also has to accept the idea that one is innocent until proven guilty. There seems to be a lot of conclusion jumping on limited information.

Activities other than troop and patrol meeting can mean more than just campouts. As far as I know a patrol can bike, hike, service project, etc. without adult supervision.

I like being with my boys. Heading out for errands off-site is sometimes a bothersome necessity. In terms of boy led, maybe I spend too much time jaw-jacking with them, but they seem to enjoy it as well. Sometimes I often feel that they would get more done if I wasn't around as much, but they've never had to stand in line to get my attention either. Every year at summer camp, I take each PL, individually, and have them eat with the "adults". The adults sit with their back to the patrol of the PL. He has left his patrol in the hands of his APL. During the dinner there is a one-sided conversation that is expected throughout the meal. The PL is to watch the patrol and report to the adults everything he observes going on. Who's fighting with whom. Who's sitting around doing nothing. Who's doing all the work. Is the APL doing his job. etc. etc. The adults are expected to say NOTHING! The only thing an adult can say something is if the boy has an empty mouth and is not talking. Then they can say something like, "What are the boys doing now?" When dinner's over, the only comment I make is, "I'm glad we had this opportunity to chat." It is surprising how much the boys learn about group dynamics by NOT being deeply involved in it and can see things they wouldn't if they are focused within the group. To me, this is probably the most important and only truly relevant thing I do all week long at camp. ....besides reading a good book or two....

Have no fear, there are plenty of other all-boy options still on the table. It may not be BSA, but there are plenty of other organizations that will continue on with separated programs. At my age, switching to a co-ed program that already exists will be far easier than having to deal with the blind leading the blind of a new "pilot" program to test murky waters.

With each situation, there are hundreds if not thousands of mitigating circumstances that make each one unique. I think the "Gut Check Gauge" is probably the best answer for the OP. Although he know very little about the situation, he at least knows more than any of the rest of us, nor does any of us really know how we would react if faced with a similar situation. The whole discussion about whether this is an unforgivable situation is moot. If it was a sexual misconduct situation, the boy were to do 25 years in prison, he would still live to be 95 years old on the sex offender roster, his debt to society has been paid, but a number of social welfare benefit, places he could live and places he could go and who he could associate would never go away. Next week I will be attending the burial of a friend of mine who was an veteran, served his country, became an alcoholic due to PTSD, passed out and was awakened by the police on a sexual charge. He spent 15 years in prison and as soon as he was out he continued to drink until he drank himself to death, literally. Why? There was no other recourse for him in our society. Drug dealers, murderers, thieves and a whole host of criminals get off eventually. Life isn't fair, and if the boy doesn't get his Eagle, that's a life lesson he will need to live with for the rest of his life. At least he won't have to register with the authorities annually where his whereabouts are. Forgivable or not, some punishments are forever.