Stosh

This topic has been quite interesting so I'll toss in my 2-cents worth. I find that "advancement" is nothing more than the measure of a scout. The higher the rank, the more one can assume they will actually function at a certain level of development. I took over a troop recently and after extensive evaluation of where the handful of boys are functionally, I am finding some of my Life rank scouts can't tie the simplest of knots. On an outing they are useless. They don't function as scouts regardless of what their patch of rank or responsibility says. They cannot do the simplest of tasks, they cannot teach the next generation of scouts so they can not function as leaders and the troop flounders. If the boys don't function, the responsibility for success falls upon the adults. End of boy-led scouting. Without teaching requirements as fuctionality and only counting as score will eventually lead to a more adult led troop.

How does one explain to the young scout that scout knives, either BSA folding or sheath are prohibited at scout activities? The same holds true for the BSA official hand axe.

I had a boy contact the Veterans' Admnistration office and got a listing of all veterans buried in the local cemeteries. The boys then went out and evaluated the stones to see if 1) each veteran had a stone, 2) is the stone readable, 3) has it sunk into the ground and needs to be lifted, or 4) does it need cleaning. Following the inspection, a report was made to the VA and the Eagle scout then made application for all those that needed replacing. There are other things out there that have historical significance that could qualify for a great Eagle project. Stosh

Rank/age requirements have always amazed me. One needs to be First Class to attend JLT and one can't be PL/APL unless they have JLT. This might be all fine and good except for the new scout patrol. They get an untrained, anyone that's warm kind of leader with no experience. Unless there's an exception to the rule for the new scouts leading themselves. Every time one makes a rule, something comes up to force an exception. Boys in our troop assume leadership when they make the effort to actually function in that position. If one has a firecracker of a scout who would do an excellent job as a SPL, they shouldn't have to sit on the sidelines until they earn their rank or have a birthday. Stosh

If the patrol method is being used, surely the PLC is limited in its ability to dictate any activity. Wouldn't it be more beneficial for the PLC to take its cue from the patrols? If the PLC decides the "troop" is to attend camporee and one patrol decides to attend the ballet instead as a patrol activity, why would anyone complain? Do we not promote patrol method? or is patrol method secondary to troop method? It always amazes me the many variations we all come up with to promote something that is supposed to be pretty basic and straight-forward. When my "troop" meets, it meets as patrols. Each patrol is responsible for its own programming, outings and activities. If the older boys want to do GPS while the new boy patrol does basic compass work, great. But if two or more patrols want to all attend the same outing, then the PLC can assist in coordinating that logistics to make it happen. However if the PLC says, "Everyone is going to the camporee." and a patrol doesn't wish to, surely the scout literature supports such decisions on the part of a boy-led patrol method program. Stosh

I too have accepted the responsibility of resurrecting a collapsing troop. We have about 10 registered scouts and 5 active. They insist on two patrols, a PL and APL for each one and that leaves one older tenderfoot scout as the only non-POR member. I have seen each of the other five scouts once in the past 4 months. It's all chiefs and no Indians. Everyone gets their "credit" for leadership and nothing gets done. They plan no activities, they don't work together, there is a good reason why this troop is collapsing. They all have between 9-11 partial merit badges and can't tie even the simplest of knots. It will take at least a year to get these boys functioning at the "rank" they think they have earned. It's been interesting and by all indications will get even more interesting in the months ahead when 13-15 new Webelos scouts will be crossing over and will want to be actually doing something in this troop. Stosh

How about checking with your council office for a list of venturing crews. It may be very nice to give the cubs a taste of what they might expect after crossing over. My crew is U.S. History and goes around to various schools in the state putting on demonstrations of Civil War equipment, etc. There may be a backpacking crew, rock climbing, police/fire post, etc. that could step in and do a very nice job for the program. Surely all those boys seem to come out of the woodwork for any major Scoutfest activities to show off their stuff, why not on a smaller scale for the packs? Check with the leadership of the council, there are plenty of leaders who have skills and hobbies that could do a nice job for you as well. This would be a great lead-in to keeping the boys focused on moving on into the higher levels of Scouting. Stosh

Why not just make everyone have a POR and forget about having a patrol? Otherwise with just 9 boys, I see no reason for a SPL or ASPL along with a PL and APL. If the patrol method is being used what's the reason for an SPL and ASPL except to duplicate the leadership corps and cause confusion as to who's running the patrol. Until one has enough boys to maintain two 8 boy patrols, there's no need for POR's that are purely "traditional" and non-functional. A PL and APL with an older boy TG should be sufficient for the other 6 boys. Too often we have non-functioning POR's just to get credit for advancement. It surely sounds that this top-heavy leadership over 3-4 boys is rather obvious. Stosh

If one's goal is to serve boys, distances shouldn't make any difference. My council has 3 districts: I live in one district, I'm a scoutmaster in another, and a venturing advisor in the third. Because of the unique dynamics of the venturing crew, I pull in youth from 3 different councils, and hold meetings throughout the 3 state area. And in spite of all that, I'm just 2 miles from the scout office!! :^) Stosh

On the flip side of the coin is the adult scouter that spends all of their time with the boys and are seldom considered for the merit awards such as District Award of Merit or Silver Beaver. Unless one takes an active role outside the troop they are pretty much toast. Those who score big with FOS or endowment efforts, boards, commissions, etc. and other highly visible district and council efforts get the acolades. Case in point 3 adults all take Wood Badge together, all get the "District Spark Plug" award for up and coming leaders, yet two are now DAM and Silver Beaver and the third who has remained active in the troop/crew (SM and Advisor) has never "progressed". Yet that third person has more years in adult scouting than the other two. Conclusion: if you wish to work with the boys, don't expect much if any recognition outside the realm of the boys themselves. The generals wear the brass and the privates do the work. Stosh

If the SPL and the PLC are the first line of support for the patrols, why can't they convene to "get to the bottom" of the problem? Surely a "jury" of their peers can be far more effective than adults getting involved in kid-to-kid problems. If these scouts cannot resolve this issue on their own, how are they going to do it as life gets more complicated? A couple of ASM's or maybe a SM tacitly observing and maybe offering occasional guidance could go a long way to having real youth-led solutions to group dynamics that are nothing more than normal activity among boys of this age. A group decision also resolves the problem of just having one or two people to "blame" for resolving the issues at hand. The really nice thing about this kind of approach is it leaves the responsibility and authority in the hands of the boy-leadership rather than immediately abducating it to adults at the first sign of trouble. Stosh

The only time my boys have not seen me in the full dress uniform on any scout activity is when I'm swimming. And the only exception to that is in a rescue in whitewater rivers when I've been known to go over the side in full uniform. Stosh

One way for the boy to take responsibility in this situation is to ask HIM what the "punishment" for such an infraction should be imposed on him if any. He cannot weasle out of the process, he has to evaluate the situation, he has to be hard enough to satisfy the scout program and yet can be fair to his scouting career. He has to understand all the dynamics of the situation and he has to take charge, show leadership, maybe step down on his own, maybe not, but he has ownership in the situation and cannot let it slide. Keeping or not keeping rules imposed from outside is one thing, living with the moral compass from within is something altogether different. According to the Scout Law, I'd go with the moral compass within. Stosh

4 years Cub Scout 4 Years Boy Scout 2 Years semi-professional Exploring 4 years Cub Scout adult leader 15 years Boy Scout adult leader 2 years (Both Cub and Boy Scout simultaneously) 9 years (Both Boy and Venturing simultaneously) 29 years in Scouts total

I would find this to be quite unlikely. First of all I have had 14 years experience as the ASM in charge of advancement and have never heard of such a situation. Any merit badge cards or reports we get we as a troop submit the paperwork to the council, not the merit badge school, summer camp staff, MB counselor or scout himself. If we have no paperwork we submit no paperwork to get a merit badge. As a precaution to such a problem for an Eagle Scout, about 9 months before he will qualify for Eagle rank, we get a printout of the boy's record from the council office and compare it to the record we have for the boy and the record the boy keeps. If there is a problem, we have time to correct it. Stosh

That's strange. I have had the same belt buckle I bought 14 years ago. Maybe if you'd quit hitting the boys with the buckle end, you won't go through so many. :^) Stosh

Hmmmm, how much of the prescribed uniform parts have to be on the boy be for he is "wearing a Scout uniform"? If he's wearing blue jeans does he salute and remain or put his hand over his heart and say the pledge? If the troop voted on neckerchiefs and he forgot his, does he salute or put his hand over his heart? If Scouts are not military and do not provide for a military style hand salute, do the boys wear their hat inside and salute anyway or take their hats off and hold them over the right shoulder with the hand over their heart? Where's a good Flag Code lawyer when you need one? Here's what I would suggest for those who feel it necessary to follow the Code appropriately. All boys with full uniforms, including socks and belt clip (knife is optional), salute with the scout salute with the right hand, while holding their left hand over the flag "flying" backwards on their right sleeve. Instruct the boys to leave their hats in the car because this would cause undue hardship. If the boys are Venturing scouts using the military style salute, they remain silent but say the pledge out loud in their heads. The Boy scouts say it quietly enough without moving their lips that everyone will think they are silent but in reality they aren't. Have fun and don't get hurt. Do not try this at home. Stosh

This is a direct quote from the Code: "2002--Pub. L. 107-293 reenacted section catchline without change and amended text generally. Prior to amendment, text read as follows: ``The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag, `I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.', should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute.''" So if Scouts are in uniform, why are the reciting the Pledge out loud. According to the Code they are to remain silent. If the Scout uniform is not a uniform, then the "salute" rendered is the right hand over the heart, not the Scout salute. If the Scout uniform is a uniform, then the scout is to remain silent during the pledge. This only proves my point that for the most part the Code is ignored, people do what they want to do and even the Scouts are not immune to such influence. "The "Flag Code" has been re-written over and over again, so what remains is a conglomerate of what people think it is, what it may be, and what politically correct it might be tomorrow. I have many historical reditions of the Code, but I don't think there's anyone out there that can even say which is the current version." Yes, the government knows what the Code says, but unless someone looks it up and posts a link, I still don't think many people actually know what it really says, and/or adheres to it. I stand by my original post. Stosh

The "Flag Code" has been re-written over and over again, so what remains is a conglomerate of what people think it is, what it may be, and what politically correct it might be tomorrow. I have many historical reditions of the Code, but I don't think there's anyone out there that can even say which is the current version. Stosh

My senior high school year, my mother made me do housekeeping. It included cooking, baking, sewing, darning, laundry, ironing, cleaning, and every other household chore. It was the best thing that ever happened to me. When she passed away a couple of years ago, my father presented me with her sewing machine. A couple of years ago I made 12 full American Civil War uniforms for my Venturing Crew. Have I had to make use of any of these sewing skills in the past week? Yep, 3 times. My ASM is getting the material and I'm planning on hemming up 50 custom neckerchiefs for the troop so they can be professionally embroidered. I would love to have a "Household Maintenance" Merit Badge for the boys. It will affect every day of their lives for the rest of their lives.

My scoutmaster would put the sign up, wait for quiet and if it didn't come quickly and completely, he would recite the Scout Law up to the word Courteous, pause for effect and reflection and then go into his comments. He's also the one that said the three fingers up are representative of "Sit down", "Shut up", and "Pay Attention". :^)

I have used both cast iron and aluminum dutch ovens. I find them both equally useful depending on the situation. I do not regard one over the other, they are both excellent cooking tools. One thing one might want to consider with the aluminum (and it works eually well with cast iron) is replace the use of oil with bees wax. It will never go racid during long periods of storage, and works equally well to preserve the metals. I use the bees wax on older, heavier pitted cast iron and aluminum because it fills the holes and seals up any need to "further clean" older equipment. I do not worry about the outside of the items, but I do occasionally wax the outsides just to maintain protection just before long periods of storage. The only disadvantage of using wax is that it is applied while the metal is hot enough to melt it. Other than that, just wipe it around with a paper towel just like you would oil.

I read the post and immediately I saw a problem. "We had the Scouts sort themselves into new, integrated age patrols" This means the young boys were "setup" by the adults to be the PL and APL. Why didn''t you just form patrols according to what the boys wanted? The older boys would flock together and have their own leadership, work at their own interests, plan activities that would interest their age group, etc. etc. I for one would automatically assume the young kids would get dumped on under the opening line of your post. This process makes about as much sense as wondering why your foot is sore after you shot yourself in the foot. Stosh

the "fold-down" pockets are traditionally known as mule-eared pockets. They have a better usefulness than the in-seam pockets which have a tendency to empty themselves while sitting. The mule-eared pockets button shut and are accessed at a higher angle than the in-seam pocket thus making them more secure. This might be something for modern uniform designers look into. So far only the flapped patch pockets (i.e. cargo pockets) are secure enough to retain valuables.

Being closer to 60 than 50, I fully understand the problems that come with age. However, there have been plenty of nights when I slept on a rubber blanket with a wool blanket and a backpack for a pillow. When the weather goes bad, I have 2 canvas shelter halves (no ends) that pops up quickly. For real luxury, I have a canvas tent (no floor) with bug netting and a cot. Do I wake up stiff and sore? Yep, but after getting up, moving around and getting busy, it goes away. I must also state that the best part of winter survival is sleeping out under the stars in a -40 sleeping bag. I figure when I can no longer sleep out with the boys, I''ll hang up the walking stick and get a nice soft bed in the nursing home. For those with medical problems, I think it''s great to do whatever it takes to get out with the boys.