Stosh

When I was in college back in the early 70's in one of my business classes it was noted that "General Motors is too big to fail.." It would be a disaster to the world economy. Well, 40 years later we have GM collapsing and the taxpayer has to bail them out....yet in my lifetime! Well, the world didn't come to an end, the streetlights came on that evening and they held school the next day. Still had to go to work. Life went on. It was kinda like the Y2K hype that we all heard about for 10 years before....NOTHING HAPPENED. BSA has palmed one too many cards in this game of poker and how now to play out it's hand. They might think they have the winning hand, but so far, everyone's playing it close to the vest. I guess we'll find out right quick on this whole thing. I'm not a bettin' man, but I'm willing to lay out 2-cents that says this is gonna hurt for a while until BSA gets its head out of the sand. Quicker the better.

@Phrogger Although I get hassled on the forum for my stance on this, what you are describing with the mixed patrols is exactly why I don't like that process. If a big activity is planned the new guys get left out instead of planning their own activities. All the left over new guys sit around waiting for the big boys to go have fun. Well, why are the new guys sitting around doing nothing when they can form their own patrol and go off and do their own thing at a level they are capable of? Why don't troops do this? I think it's because it is far more difficult to control by the adults. For heaven's sake, one can't keep control of things if all the patrols are going in a hundred different directions all at once because that's what they decide to do??? Patrol activity? New guys want to go for a hike, the middle aged group wants to go biking and the older boys want to backpack. They all plan the same weekend! SM goes with a parent to backpacking trek. An ASM with another parent goes biking, and a second ASM with a parent goes on a hike. 3 registered adults. Seriously, we aren't talking hurding cats here, there are 6-8 boys and if two adults and a PL can't handle that, there's something seriously wrong with the troop. As @TAHAWK has stated, if there's a mixed patrol and the PL can't handle the diversity of interest so that everyone is taken care of, then change the format so that he can. The SPL needs to be taking care of his PL, too. It sounds as if this is not a troop that is as boy-led as they would think it is. The nice thing about this whole mess is that with the early cross-over (which I am totally against in the first place) your son hasn't lost time to enjoy scouts. Go shopping, take your son, and if he wants to invite his buddies, that's fine too. He may not be the only one feeling this way. I find boys discuss these things among themselves all the time. I would be surprised if this conversation you are having with your son hasn't been hashed about with his friends first. So, your son and five of his buddies show up at a new troop and "negotiate". We will join if you provide a skilled PL and TG to get us going with a new patrol of just us boys. Whadda ya think? A good boy-led troop would jump at this in a heartbeat. It shows your son is taking the initiative and is taking care of his boys. Step #1 in solid leadership. That might be a discussion he needs from you. Just sayin'.

I had hundreds of nightsof camping in before I got to Scouts. I come from a camping family and still privately camp yet today. Often times the Mrs. complains that the boys are always taking the good weekends and so she goes camping with her kayaking group of gals. With scouts, reenacting, and family camping, I can easily get in 75-80 nights of camping every year. Now that I'm retired the number goes up. Out of the last seven days, I have camped two of them, it's May and the sun's shining. What more do you want? When I first started camping, being the only people in a state park, sharing the campfire with the ranger and his family was common place. Now one can't get a reservation because all the Holiday Inns on wheels have taken over. Huge permanent RV's and trailers sitting 10' apart is not camping, but a sandbar on a slow moving river out in the middle of nowhere is.

I could buy into that. Now the boys need 20 nights, with 50 half of which are non-scouting, that would add another 5 and still double the nights out in a campground. I would shy away from one's backyard with family, but would support club, school, and church outings.

LDS has not cut Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts, only Varsity and Venturing. Venturing is pretty much dead weight with our council. I ran a Crew for 13 years and it survived in longevity longer than most. Getting Crews started is impossible. I have tried as well as many others. Just ain't gonna happen 'round here. Varsity? Don't know of any in the council. So Boy Scouts runs only from 11 - 14? Okay, that's at church expense, but any boy that wants to continue can do so with a $1 transfer to a non-LDS troop at his own expense. I don't see this as a real panic attack moment where all-male scouting needs to be thrown under the bus. BSA has shot itself in the foot. There's no reason to shoot the other one, too.

Of course, backpacking is different than just hiking, but one must take into consideration the extra training that is necessary for backpacking. I covered 110 miles, all 5 major peaks of Philmont in a 9 day trek. That averages out to be about 12.25 miles a day on average. Add in base camp at both ends, travel to the kickoff site, etc, that puts the average a bit higher, about 13.75 miles a day. We were on the trail every morning by 7:00 am. Due to the site locations, there were days we did a lot longer and some shorter. I have no idea what the mileage was, but a few days we didn't have evening entertainment we put in an easy 12 hour day on the trail. Philmont staff said the trek we picked was the most difficult of any of the others. The boys would stop every hour for a 10 minute break and longer for breakfast and lunch. I only stopped for breakfast and lunch. They were not pacing themselves, I was. I was doing 15 miles a day in preparation for Philmont having worked up to that over 6 month's time. Of course that included adding pack weight over that same period of time. At Philmont it took me a few days at the beginning to adjust to altitude and climbing Baldy from the backside was not at 3 miles per hour. I was at my college weight and fitness and was 50 years old. Any scout that seriously prepared himself for the trek would have had an easier time of it than I did simply because of age. Taking into consideration the dedication and conditioning of youth today, maybe we need to scale back the requirements so that it is easier to attain their eagle rank. At this point 50 nights of camping is a walk in the park.

Welcome to the forum!

One earns their 50-miler with that setup. Broken down into 5 days? One would think that even a couch potato could pull that off. At 3 miles an hour (average walking speed) That means the Walk 1) 5 miles = 1 hour 40 minutes. Seriously? One could pull this off in the time most troops have a meeting activity. 2) 10 miles = 3 hours 20 minutes. a stretch, but if one left after breakfast they would be done by lunch. Three hikes like this should build up a bit of stamina for the... 3) 15 miles = 5 hours. Okay, if one were to leave at noon, they might be a little late for dinner. Okay let's translate that into Philmont. Day one: on the trail by 7:00 am, done by 8:40 am. Day two: on the trail by 7:00 am, done by 10:20 am. Day three: on the trail by 7:00 am, done by 10:20 am. Day four: on the trail by 7:00 am, done by 10:20 am. Day five: on the trail by 7:00 am, done by 12:00 noon That should leave a little time for evening activities. Okay, let's take it back home. Leave at 5:00 pm, Friday, done by 6:40 pm. Make camp. Leave at 12:00 noon Saturday, done by 3:20 pm, go home Come back after church, leave again at 12:00 noon, done by 3:20 pm. Next Friday camp the evening, leave at noon on Saturday, done by 3:20 pm. Home again for church on Sunday, back on the trail by noon, done at 5:00 pm. 2 nights of camping, made it to church, and still got it done in 2 weekends. Of course if one were to have a Chaplain's Aide along one could stretch the nights of camping out to four. Nothing wrong with circular hikes that take one back to camp each night. A day-pack and water bottle should suffice.

Unfortunately that's not true. I had a local engineer in my troop that designed a patrol box that took two people to carry that fit nicely between the thwarts and gunnels of the canoe. Once I took it to BWCA but didn't go very far in. It was nice, but it was a real pain to double portage the stupid thing.

If we were using the historical requirements of 50 nights of camping, we wouldn't even be quibbling over the 20 days, one isn't even half way there yet

This is the policy adopted by all three of my troops I have served in. It works well. I did notice they backed off a bit on my kid because of me and that bothered me, but things stayed in a better perspective. The nice thing about it was I often did not know what my son was up to and therefore dealt with in the troop and not taken home, to be discussed, "just wait until your father gets home." Over and done with and with a lot of fairness mixed in.

Welcome to the forum and ask away!

Yeah, but they created a whole new sport, they didn't change the original..... Just sayin'.

facism 1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism. 2. (sometimes initial capital letter) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism. 3. (initial capital letter) a political movement that employs the principles and methods of fascism, especially the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922 – 43. Socialism 1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. 2.procedure or practice in accordance with this theory. 3.(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles. Capitalism 1. an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth. Pick your poison.... or better yet, make up your own concoction on the fly.

I thought I had seen everything on this forum, but a ding for congratulating an Eagle Scout for attaining the rank? Kinda makes one wonder.....

A scout with activities other than scouts and a rule that he has to serve 12 months when the requirements state 6 is just plain wrong. It is a classic example of a troop adding to the requirements. There's just no valid reason for it other than adults making stupid rules. If a scout is required to serve 6 months and does 9 with time off for a season of sports, it still counts. And the extra 3 months shows he does care. Had my committee made such a rule for my troop, I would go to bat for the scout and personally help him through the appeal process and if that irked the committee, he and I would both be looking for a new troop. I often wonder whether or not some of the scouters out there can read plain English. Seriously, the BSA handbook isn't written in Hieroglyphics or some sort of Enigma code.

Congrats to your son!

As I mentioned earlier, problem solving is a good skill to have. Make it work! I'm sure there are a scout here or two that don't make Eagle for one reason or another. One is they turn 18 and another is they only have 19 days of camping. Both are controllable for the scout. Youth today are so engrained with excuses that they no longer need to problem solve and or take responsibility for their lives. The earlier in life someone figures this out the happier they are going to be in the long run.

20 days.... end of discussion.

I have no problem with co-ed Scouting USA as a new program offered to the youth of our country. But one has to take it into consideration that BOY Scouting has a valid place too. We have tons of co-ed youth programs. Scouting USA can jump in and compete with them, but the uniqueness of an all-boy program will disappear. Now it may not matter to a few, but all-girl or all-boy organizations may not have a wide market demand but they do hold an edge the other programs don't....and they don't have to compete with everyone else. I have worked with co-ed youth programs my entire life and have no problem with the way they approach their programs. However, what's my incentive to stick with Scouting USA if it's just like any other program out there that I'm already involved with? As it stands now, I like the all-boy program of the BSA. It's something different with a different focus and produces a different result for society than does co-ed with a more diverse need to fulfill. As it stands right now, starting a Red Cross Club of young adults will do more for "helping other people at all times" than religious programs or scouting programs. How many Venturing Crews are prepared and get the opportunity to serve hot meals or helping people in a shelter in a disaster situation? Just sayin'.

All's well until the two CO's decide to participate in a little political drama, then it will affect the unit and the unit's members. Always try and keep the problems to a minimum!

I realize there are many excuses not to get the boys together for a campout with family, sports, church, and other community activities competing for a boys time, but, seriously? One weekend per year is not a stretch! If the troop can't make it, why not have a patrol of sports boys that catch an overnighter in their sport off-season? Summer? Get an old retired geezer or two that would like a couple of days in the middle of the week to get out of the house and go! I just can't find it in my own busy schedule with church, Red Cross, Boy Scouts, conservation and community projects that a few of the boys can't figure out how to get a camping weekend in out of 52 options. Sometimes problem solving goes a long way to build an Eagle's character and dedication. Excuses do not produce good Eagles. They need to do more planning in their lives than just a leadership project.

https://www.niche.com/k12/rankings/private-high-schools/best-all-boys/ @TAHAWK you had me worried there, so I did a quick lookup. I thought maybe the PC crowd had not posted a site for boys, or that it had been already sued out existence by now.

Okay students, let's take a look at the math. Let's start with 20 days - a long term camp of 6 days. That leaves 14 days that need to be considered. A boy is in scouts for 7 years. If a weekend campout consists of Friday and Saturday nights, how many weekends per year does the boy need to go on a camping weekend to meet his 20 day requirement? That's right kids, can we all say ONE!

Terrorist Temper Tantrums. Simply no other way to describe it.