Stosh

Only on this forum have I seen a thread on fake dog poop take up three pages and covers just about every topic in the book; religion, behavioral problems, guys and gals, etc. And yet what I can't figure out is how in the world this thread continue without some political reference to the upcoming election. Com'on people, surely there's a connection here somewhere! Have a good one! I'm going camping, I'll check in on Sunday to see if this problem has been remedied... or are we in need of a fake veterinarian? Stosh

Oh, and by the way, my t-shirt reads: "Don't be making the same mistakes you see others making." It's what I teach my boys. While it his advantageous to learn from one's own mistakes, it's even a wiser man who learns as well from the mistakes of others. Being observant used to be a prized skill of scouting in the early years. Stosh

This last PLC outing was the annual program planning event. We went whitewater canoeing. When we weren't on the water, the boys were at the camp table doing their planning and the adults attended to the camp chores including all cooking, etc. It's the only outing where the adults do all the work, but it leaves all the "free" time for the boys to work on the program for the upcoming year. Yes, if the adults are off doing camp chores, they don't have time to interfere with the creativity of the boys and the plans they are making. Stosh

"What! You use one example to bash a whole program?" One has to read more than one post. Take it in context. So far only Liz has made a strong positive support for JASM and it's not because of the program in as much as it's the maturity, and uniqueness of an exceptional Eagle scout. If every troop had such high quality youth wishing to make a difference I might change my mind, but I haven't experienced this except as an exception to the rule and not the rule itself. "It is pretty obvious after reading your post that you dont have enough experience as a SM yet to even comment on JASMs." When one doesn't have something to contribute, attack the person. "Your troop is very young and hasnt had the time to mature enough for a JASM at this point." 58 years is not a young troop, small at this point, but not young. I have 2 boys working on Eagle projects as I write. "You simply dont have the need yet." You were doing well until the word "yet". "But the time will come and when your troop does mature, and hopefully so do the adults, you will start to realize that this program is all about Scout Growth and nothing about proving your theories of the perfect troop to be sound." I'll pass it on that there are those out there that think my adult corps to be immature. I'm sure they'll be happy to hear that. "See a true boy run troop is not what the boys do, but what the adults do." Here's where the logic unravels.... "I read all your post about how great you are for letting the boys to run the program. Personally I see an adult describing a very restricted program where the boys may get to lead, but they have very little individual independence to grow." Yep, I focus more on teamwork, community, servant leadership. A byproduct of that is individual maturity and the ability to lead more than just scout groups. And of course everyone's entitled to their opinions which is why the forum exists, but I reserve that right for myself as well without being bashed in the process. "Not that you are that bad, because I think most of us adults have been in your mindset in the early years ourselves. That is the nature of starting somewhere and learning from the mistakes. Hopefully you will humble yourself enough to learn that a true boy run troop is really more of the adults getting out of the way and removing obstacles of scout growth. It is different for every troop and different from one week to the next. Sheldonsmoms example is nothing more then adults just not yet understanding the needs of their scouts and her son. They sound like they are trying, but through there ignorance, they have created obstacles. It has nothing to do with JASMs." And what would sheldonsmom's son do in that troop if it wasn't for this generic but useless position? He can't be a troop officer, he can't be a PL, he can't be any real functioning leader in the troop. No thanks. It doesn't take a 17 year-old to figure out he's been put out to pasture. I think for the scouts that don't want to lead, this would be a great POR. We don't have boys in the troop that don't want to lead, most of them have quit. "It doesnt matter what you call it, when a boy starts to think and act more mature, he needs to be in an environment where he has the freedom to grow. If that is the position of doing what the SM normally does, then hopefully the SM has the confidence and wisdom to step out of the way and encourage to let that happen. Pride is a very big obstacle. What you call the scout at that point is irrelevant. But if the SM did put the JASM label on it, it doesnt take away from the nobility of the SMs or courage of the scout progress forward into the unknown. It just happen to be the label at the moment. Likely your pride won't allow you to use that label, but what every you choose to call it, it will still be an opportunity for the scout to grow." I have that position already, it's called SPL. Just as the SM shouldn't be interfering in the leadership of the SPL, adding a JASM into the mix isn't all that functionally helpful. "So go ahead and bash away. But for those of us who have a been there and done that t-shirt, we know your day is coming. We just wonder how much humility and courage you will have to be a servant and get out of the way. I know, I know, you think have already passed that test. We all thought that. But even the adults have to continue to grow. I love this scouting stuff." One should then learn this scouting stuff. Starting with "Helpful, courteous, kind," It is obvious that without a full grasp of multiple posts over time, cherry picking posts will not really provide any real contribution in context. My arrogance, pride and the fact that I don't have a t-shirt with "been there, done that" on it isn't going to provide the insight that 40 years of youth work in multiple organizations from YMCA, to churches, to GSA, to BSA in Cubbing (8 years), Scouting (17 years), Venturing (9 years) and professional (2 years). When one speaks from experience on a process that doesn't really work all that well, it's not bashing. Occasionally it works, occasionally it doesn't, but one can be reasonably sure that the BSA approach to JASM's is sketchy at best, or tieknotsinlike50different wouldn't have asked the question, "what are they supposed to be doing?" and over the course of many posts, the jury is still pretty much out, doesn't bode well for a strong consensus of it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. So, feel free to hit the ignore button. In the mean time, I have to prepare my presentation for U of Scouting on how to set up a boy-led patrol method unit. Obviously there are those who recognize the benefits of the approach I have allowed in this troop. That and the fact that this troop in the rookie tenure of an "arrogant, misguided SM", grow from 6 to 30+ boys. The Council asked me to take over this troop for a reason. They seemed to be very pleased with the results. Stosh

Totally agree, Kudu. I find that functional officers can actually lead the troop without adult interference. If they aren't trained, and have no experience, then the adults have to mentor, guide, direct, and do the leadership for them or nothing would get done. Also: sheldonsmom, your son may wish to do the DC job. He can still tap into the big outings of the troop, but spend is productive time working with a handful of kids that will totally thrive on having an Eagle scout for a DC. Maybe the DL will give him more respect for his accomplishments than the current SM. Stosh

I kinda have to agree with sheldonsmom and kudu. There's got to be something seriously wrong with a SM running the show to this extent. Taking the Eagle out of the mix is about as smart as the business that takes their top salesmen out of the market and give them a desk job as soon as they make the company a $1,000,000. Dah? Wake up here. This is why the JASM leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. It's the kiss of death that the brightest and best get saddled with. Even if the SM uses the modern dynamics proposed by BSA currently, taking the boy out of the troop functionality is a total waste of what that SM did to assist that boy through the ranks to Eagle in the first place. Obviously this poor scout is never going to get a fair shake with this troop. Maybe he needs to act on his leadership skills and make a command decision concerning his scout career. Stosh

OGE, :^) I know the MC's can wear uniform shirts and even have MC patches. The CC and I discussed this whole thing at great length when he moved from SM to CC and I took over as SM. Because of the "shortage" of leaders it was decided to put ASM on their shirts to assure them that when requested they can be hands-on direct with the boys. It did draw concern about "ASM's" sitting in on BOR's, but as long as it wasn't a parent, we'd "overlook" that rule, too. (Sorry, GW, I know that's going to torque your shorts.) I have a few parents that are registered and I have no idea what they are down on paper as. They're there, they help when needed and work well with the boys when requested, and the boys like them. Being focused on the boys themselves, I rely heavily on my CC to provide the necessary adults when required. The boys needed a Popcorn Chair, she was there. The boys needed rides to camporee, they showed up ready to go. I look to my CC as my #1 wing-man and before I can even ask, he's there with what I need. It is that type of teamwork I'm trying to pass on to my boys. My SPL has an ASPL that works pretty much the same way as my CC. As a matter of fact, the ASPL is the former SPL and is the CC's son. Taking this back to the original thread, how does one fit a JASM into this whole mix? I would think that unless the unit is quite large, has more focused responsibilities for each postion both youth and adult, this vaguely defined position (JASM) would be difficult to functionally insert anywhere. In a large unit of 8-10+ patrols, having extra specific hands both adult (ASM) and youth (JASM) would be a blessing. In a smaller unit, the Eagle TG or ASPL could fill that role very easily on a temporary basis as needed. My boys are very focused on Servant Leadership where if there a functional need for something, fine, but wearing a patch just for the sake of wearing a patch or earn some POR requirement by showing up for a length of time doesn't cut it. That's not the SM rule, that's the rule the boys have come up with on their own. With only 20 boys, there's enough work going on that no one seems to be too worried about who's got what patch on their sleeve. My PL's take their turn on the roster doing KP just like any other member of their patrol. My boys are known by what they DO not what they ARE. The BSA literature defines what a JASM is, but not much on what they do. Stosh

I would think this process would be rather obvious, but I'll explain it anyway: In a small troop, there's a lot of people doing "double duty". I have my adults sometimes doing committee work as needed, they teach MB's occasionally as needed (2 of my ASM/MC's are doing Pioneering MB for the boys right now, so that means I'm down two ASM's and I'll let my CC know he's down 2 committee members too), they are ASM's on occasion, sometimes they are 2nd person in 2-deep (don't need to be MC or ASM to do that), sometimes they give rides just like any other parent (We still allow them to wear their ASM shirts even when they aren't doing ASM things, the boys think it's important that the adults set a good example by wearing a uniform shirt). It's kinda like, what the boys request help on, we as adults figure out how to provide it. But in a small troop, at meal time my SPL functions as a Chaplain's Aid because we don't have a boy wearing that patch and my ASPL functions as the TG because there's not a need for a full-time TG at this point, and over the past month we've had 3 different boys trying out Scribe to see if they would like to take on that responsibility. My PL's are all Instructors because we don't have anyone wearing that patch, but the work has to be done anyway. My ASPL/TG borrowed by bugle the other day, wants to practice up on it to see if he can play it (didn't ask for the patch, just the bugle and bugle book). A boy asked to be a DC, great got him a patch, he did the on-line Fast Start, and Monday he starts the DC 3 hr training. Gee, he's still an APL in his patrol. One boy really likes his patrol so he doesn't want to be the QM and move into the Troop Corps group of boys, so instead he's staying a member of his patrol, but does all the QM duties anyway. By the way, the QM not being part of a patrol and being part of the troop officer corps instead was the boys' idea, not the whim of the SM. I guess with 20 boys, and 7 active adults, I haven't got enough personnel to fill all the positions, so naturally everyone concludes that I must not be running an Official Boy Scouts of America Program. Makes sense to me. Welcome to the Official Stosh Scouts of Stoshland where everyone works together smoothly even if they don't have an official patch on their shirt. Until the boys decide differently, I guess it's going to be "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" I'll chat with my DE this weekend at the Camporee to see if I can get my charter revoked. Stosh

"No personal attack, just a comment that you don't seem be running a Boy Scout program. ASMs doing committee jobs. Do you even have a committee? That doesn't sound like anyone is paying attention to BSA." Wouldn't it be a little more scout-like to just say, "it doesn't seem like one is running a Boy Scout program," rather than resorting to the use of sarcasm? As SM, I have no sway on how the committee is run. That's the concern/arena of the CC. If he ever joins the forum, he'd be able to address that issue. I'm the SM. What the committee does isn't my concern. "PL of the NSP? How does he become the PL of the NSP? Just show up and say, "Hi guys, I'm your new PL." Nope, when the Webelos boys cross over and are introduced to the troop, the Eagle Scout can offer his service as a PL if the boys would like him to do that. The first decision a new boy to the unit must make is what patrol he would like to be in. Each patrol recruits on it's own. If an Eagle wishes to take the leadership initiative to form a new patrol, it's ok in my book. "Same goes for PL of the Venture patrol. Just show up and say, "Hi, I'm an Eagle, I'm your new PL"? " Nope, but he might recruit all his buddies out of the other patrols that want to form a new venture patrol and he is the PL until the patrol decides otherwise. "What about all those other positions? Those are appointed by the SPL. What if the SPL doesn't want him as QM or Chaplain's Aide?" Then the SPL doesn't ask him to be the QM or the Chaplain's Aide. I have found over the years that most SPL's will want Eagle experience to fill those positions. If he doesn't then it doesn't happen. The boys are making the decisions. "The more you talk, the more it sounds like Stosh Scouts of Stoshland are controlled by the whims of Stosh." And the more posts that take this position, the more I find it difficult that the concept of boy-led isn't coming through my posts. Please try and explain to me how the conclusion: "whims of Stosh" is drawn from boy-led, boy-decided, boy-guided, boy-controled, etc. I guess the only conclusion can draw from such an observation is: 1) the person making the post is dumber than a box of rocks, or 2) they are being contrary just to flame the discussion, or 3) they truly don't understand and would eventually like to know more. Right now, #3 is coming in as a distant 3rd. :^) Stosh

If the flag is fly-able, we as a curtesy, not a requirement, take the flag to a pole, run it up one last time, salute, pledge, bring it back down, fold and then take to the ceremony for burning. The rationale for this process is personal to me. If by some off chance we receive a flag that has never been flown, it at least gets one chance to fly. Had this flag been only used as a coffin pall and harmed in storage for some reason, it would have been a flag that never had a chance to fly free. To insure this, each flag is flown, saluted, and pledged before being destroyed. Like most traditions, they offer meaning of some, confusion to others, and nothing to still others. But for the few that the tradition is important, it is part of that respect part of the retirement ceremony. Maybe deep back in history, the tradition being mocked as a myth on the forum once held some respectful tradition along the way. Somehow it is a little close to the "tradition" that I use. Who knows? I for one find it objectionable to cut the flag up before destroying it. Cutting it up as a form of destruction of the flag bothers me. Burning rags afterwards holds no importance to me at all. Stosh

It isn't helpful to progress a discussion when all one has as a basis for debate is the posting of personal attacks. No, I'm not running anything, but my boys are. Now, if there are those who can't wrap their minds around such a concept, so be it. Not my problem. My boys prefer it that way, and in my book that's all that counts. As far as BSA goes, my boys are as well versed in pre-1970 BSA material as they are in post-1970 BSA material. Yes, a few of them have attended NYLT training. I have 3 WB trained leaders (all post 2000 graduates) I'm the only WB pre-2000. I have 3 others on staff that have had multiple years of SM experience. Experience? I can offer 7 years as a registered Cub leader, 17 years registered Boy Scout leader, 2 years as Explorer leader and 9 years as Venturing leader. Oh, and yes, I was trained in every aspect of scouting along the way. Currently have the U of Scouting Masters Degree and am working on a Doctorate of Scouting at the present time. So we (both youth and adult) do know the program, inside and out, but we also have a vision of what it's going to take to produce excellent leaders both within BSA and in the world in which they will live. Boy-led, patrol-method All of us from the COH down to the newest scout that just joined up last week are all on the same page. So if that makes it Stosh Scouts from Stoshland. Yep, I can live with that, too. :^) Stosh

Yep, I don't run by the book which shouldn't come as a surprise to any on the forum. All my "ASM's" are basically committee members and run the committee and all my boys pretty much (99%) run the program. So, until I need an "ASM" we put "ASM" on their shirt so they have a reason to wear a tan shirt. JASM's like "ASM's" are non-functional in our troop so we don't need them either. Training? All done by the boys wearing for real, functional POR patches, from the bottom up. SM teaches SPL, SPL teaches PL's and ASPL's, PL's teach their patrols, ASPL's teach troop officers. More ASPL's might be added as needed as the troop expands. So far we have only 4 patrols and so only one ASPL is needed to support the 3 functional troop officers. The SPL does well supporting the 4 PL's and one ASPL. The SPL is currently looking over the troop to try and groom a functional Scribe to move into the troop corps, but so far the first two choices declined because of the amount of work involved relative to their need to first work on FC advancement. My boys know that Scribe does more than take attendance and then screw around for the rest of the meeting. Because of our shortage of older scouts, I do "allow leeway" on the part of the "ASM's" to be more involved temporarily until the boys get better organized. We have 4 boys FC or above and 3 of NSP's. It's pretty hard to convince a boy that was a Webelos 6 months ago it is time to step up to QM or Scribe of a rapidly growing troop. I have 3 boys who have stepped up to PL in that time, but troop officers are taking longer because of the longer learning curve. So, how then will more ASM's benefit the troop? Boys say they don't need them. I agree. How will a JASM benefit the troop? Boys say they don't need them. I agree. When the boys come up with even a lame excuse to have a JASM, we'll consider it, but I'm not seeing anyone beating down my door with anything even remotely lame at this point. So, explain to me. If I already have the boys doing what in most troops is traditionally the work of the ASM's, why do I need them except for signatures, 2-deep, and age requirements? Stosh

"Jblake, what do your adult ASMs do?" As boy-led, patrol-method? 1st ASM does advancement records and keeps me informed of the boy's advancement status. The Scribe turns in patrol reports to him if any advancement has been fulfilled. Scribes work with PL's to make sure accurate records are being filled out each meeting. The adult only maintains a record for the troop that the adults refer to for BOR's etc. It also doubles as a backup to the boy's records they maintain in the troop. JASM would duplicate the Scribe position, would be better as Scribe. 2nd ASM does fundraising functions such as popcorn person, etc. Finds other funraising opportunities for the boys should they request that information or will research ideas the boys may be interested in should they ask. JASM would be bored to tears with this one. The ASM is... :^) 3rd ASM resource go-to person with training when the boys request it. Provides and explains any educational resources and makes it available to the boys. Keeps current MB counselor listings and orders materials so when the boys ask it's available. JASM would be limited in his duties here. Librarian and Instructor do most of this work already. 4th ASM assists outings by lining up transportation and does the permits and other adult expected aspects of outings. JASM won't find this very exciting to say the least. All ASM's, SM, CC and Committee are MB counselors as well. JASM can't do MB's. "What do you do as SM?" I am the #1 adult support liason for the boys. I am the first contact the SPL has with the adult corps of the unit. My job is to, when requested, assist the SPL to do his job or connect him up to the necessary adult to assist him in finding the specific area of expertise of the ASM. I shadow the SPL. JASM would do better being the SPL. "I reckon a capable and experienced youth age 16-17, Eagle or not, can do almost any of those things, eh? That's the job of JASM. Be a troop adult leader, in all but age and signatures." And that's my point exactly, my adults do very little except the age specific/signature kinds of things. That would mean the JASM does even less than very little. The JASM would only duplicate a part time job if at all, because until asked, these adults do very little if anything. In my situation of boy-led, patrol-method there is really no need for anyone to be a JASM. If the position was filled, it would be filled by a boy trying to do the part of an ASM job that only an adult can do. It can't happen. I would rather have him be the venture patrol PL and plan out great trips, or organize summer camp for the boys as ASPL in charge of activities, or train others as Instructor, or anyone of a ton of other things that would be a lot more fun than hanging out with the adults as they do nothing. If he really enjoyed DC? Well then, go back and be a DC. With the Eagle on his shirt, he get's to pick what he wants to do not because he needs advancement, but he would really have a great time doing it. Scouting is supposed to be fun, ya know! :^) I would think that what one person is referring to as JASM I am referring to as ASPL responsible for specific tasks. There's nothing that says one can't have an ASPL in charge of advancement, or training, or fundraising. To me these ASPL positions are valid in the boy-led, patrol-method model whereas doing what the adults do isn't. Stosh

Is this a mob or a pack meeting? Are the boys sitting with their dens? Are the DL's with their dens? or are all the DL's and parents expecting the CM to control the crowd? Are parents sitting with the dens or are they in a place reserved for parents and other visitors? Are siblings sitting with their brothers in the dens or with their parents in the visitor section? Once these boundaries are removed, it's a free-for-all. Unless the process is designed for control and until each den takes responsibility for their own actions, there will be no crowd control. Set the Pack room up accordingly A table for each den, a section reserved for parents. DL's sit with and are responsible for the behavior of their boys. Siblings sit with parents and other visitors in the area reserved for visitors. Parents are not part of the pack meeting unless they are specifically invited a such as part of a presentation for example. Flag ceremony is assigned to the most responsible den, not the mob fka the pack. If a den wants to challenge the best den at doing a flag ceremony, they can make their request known to the CM. A Cub is constantly challenged to do their best, then expect it from them and recognize it when one sees it. Maybe award a ribbon for the den flag to the den that behaves the best at a pack meeting. Don't think for a moment the other boys won't notice. The den that does the best behavorially this month is doing the flags next month. While it's been a while since I did Cubs (and then only Webelos) I never used the scout sign to rein in bad behavior. I can't hold my hand up for hours at a time anymore (nor do I want to). Remember if the situation is designed for chaos, chaos is what one is going to get. Discipline is better when the environment is designed appropriately. Stosh

What do you do with an Eagle who has done everything? PL of the Venture Patrol so he can plan out the next great adventure. Take another shot at SPL to train up new PL's to do their job even better. PL of the NSP so these new scouts have a chance to learn from the best. TG so that the scope of influence can be directly felt by the whole troop. Chaplain Aide so that the 12th Law is taken very seriously instead of blown off as is most often the case. Quartermaster so that the troop trailer and storage area can now be truly inventoried and fundraisers can be started to fill in the missing equipment. Bugler, now there's a new challenge. Not just taps, but the whole shebang! Instructor to teach not only advancement, but also TLT and other important classes needed by the boys. OA Rep? Sure, maybe add to that an officer in the OA structure as well. And so going back to the original post... what is the JASM supposed to do? It would appear that not only do most people not know, those who have offered insight have shown that it has normally been the scout himself who has defined the position and on his own initiative developed something to do with it. Unfortunately this is an exception to the rule and not the rule itself. "We have a JASM. It works well for us, but I think that's largely because we have a very remarkable young man in the role." The rest of the posts seem to only offer suggestions as to what a JASM might be, but not what BSA expects them to be. Assistants to the Patrol guides? In a boy-led, patrol-method troop, there's a position with totally nothing to do. We don't have patrol guides because the PL's lead the patrols and if they need guidance they have the SPL to refer to. To turn a youth into a semi-adult postion in the boy-led, patrol-method program pretty much assigns him to an assistantship to a do-nothing position. Seriously! What position in your troop couldn't be done better with a committed Eagle functioning in that position? Not just because he needs POR advancement time, but because he has the leadership skills to really do the job and do it right! Now, try to find a committed Eagle scout with a JASM patch on his sleeve in your council... Give it a try, all scouts like to do a good scavenger hunt now and then. Liz has hers, what about the rest of us? Stosh

If I were the MB counselor, I would read the book to the boy. Stosh

I'll accept JASM's as the equivalent to an SPL/ASPL retirement home. If he's too busy to be productive anymore because of girlfriends, cars and sports, then put him in a venture patrol of semi-interested, semi-retired troop officers and let them sit out their remaining years without any commitment to the troop. Some Eagle Scouts who have turned 18 are often kept on the roster as ASM's for years without ever seeing them so that they can retain some tenure or senority when they finally have a boy and enroll him in Tigers. They can then waltz into the CM's office and tell him/her how wonderful they are for being on the BSA roster since first grade and made AOL, and Eagle and haven't done one thing for BSA for the past 15 years except have a kid and enroll him in Tigers. I say, give him a useless patch so he won't be embarassed by his on-again, off-again attenance. Keep his record looking good. After all his self-esteem may suffer and we don't want our Eagle Scouts to think they aren't an important part of BSA when they doing nothing. If I have non-functioning ASM's they get shuffled off to Buffalo, same with the non-functioning JASM's. If one wishes to mentor, guide, and lead, take a leadership position, don't sit around and back-seat drive someone else. If he's been there, done that and has no interest in continuing to serve the unit, then their usefulness is over. Sorry, but everyone has a functional part of the team and if someone's not going to hold up their end, or worse yet, someone has to carry a double load because of someone else's inactivity, then it's time to be honest about it and have that person stay home. Scouting is service and leadership, use it or lose it. If the Eagle patch means the scout has reached the apex of scouting and he can now sit back and enjoy his retirement, sorry not in my troop. If one does not roll up their sleeves and lead these boys they can find some other activity to fill their time. If one is the best, then be the best, but if one is not interested in the boys, the boys will quickly become not interested in them as well. Leadership is a functional two-way street. If the phrase is more than just words "Once an Eagle, always an Eagle," then that has to be fulfilled out every day for that to actually mean anything. Either I'm a SM or I'm a Former SM, depending on my functionality. The same applies to being an Eagle. I vaguely remember something in the ECOH that references an obligation to give back to Scouting what Scouting has given them. Sorry for the rant, but I really haven't got much time for retired scouts in my troop. I've "been there and done that" for 30 years. The Eagles in the troop can cough up a couple of years until they turn 18 and age out. Every year I start all over from scratch with my NSP and give them the same quality of my time as I did all the years previously. When I retire, I'll have the honesty to tell my boys. Stosh

:^) Well, I guess that means the JASM doesn't do anything, because I am constantly instructing my ASM's to get out of the way and let the boys run the show. In actuality, my older boys really don't want to be a JASM, they prefer to do functional, hands-on positions. Stosh

We don't use this POR because we haven't been able to find a functional reason to have one. Stosh

I would assume that the boys would wear the tartan that is appropriate to their family. What happens when the boy who isn't of Scottish descent? Does he wear whatever he wants regardless of the appropriateness? My tartan isn't a very pretty pattern, but I'd wear that over any generic attempts of the BSA to designate which family pattern would be appropriate for generic BSA. And yes, there is a process by which a person is certified to wear a family tartan after proving their ancestry. Kinda like the boys declaring SAR or SUV without proper research. No one's going to toss anyone in jail, but being sensitive to other nationalities is something the boys should be taught to honor. Stosh

There are two resources but only one is needed to properly train a DC. The first resource is the on-line FAST-TRACK training. This brief over view does not replace the actual DC training program. The second is the actual DC training program #34450 (ISBN 0-8395-4450-2)one can order through their council. This booklet is NOT "an old program that is no longer being used" because I have a copy of it right next to me and it shows a 2008 printing. It's a 22 page booklet that is the curriculum for a 3-hour 40-minute program. The on-line FAST-TRACK training is just a brief over-view of what the boy will receive in greater depth in the actual training. Stosh

"My only fear is his losing the leadership of this because a well meaning but misguided health care professional, or other adult (outside the troop) assumes that since he is a youth he needs to be told who, what, where, and how." Every Eagle candidate has this same problem regardless of what the project may be! How well they handle them goes a long way to demonstrate their own leadership. Stosh

The last time I was involved in ax throwing was at Philmont. It would be an excellent idea if one were doing a buckskinning theme and have knife throwing, blackpowder shoot, and campfire cooking to go along with it. Stosh

My vote would be go for it, it sounds like a great idea. ... booths at the local mall covering, bp clinic, back pain, cancer, fitness, diet, etc. I would think this project would require a huge amount of coordination and leadership to pull off. Stosh

Okay, let see... DC is supposed to be FC, seems there's a problem there, no DC's for Tigers, seems to be a problem there as well. So the boy technically should not be a DC. Okay. Now, what should one do? Send him off to be a PL?, QM? something else? Why? Why not send him back to Tigers to try out being a DC. There's no reason for him to be there except to help out and gain some unofficial experience as a DC. Seems like a no-brainer to me. If one has a boy excited about something, every ounce of effort should be made in assisting him with his goals in scouting. This kid may follow those Tigers all the way through and be their TG when they cross over into Scouts. Sounds like a win/win to me. Stosh