Stosh

As has been mentioned, most camps are oriented towards MB'S and have nothing for the non MB time. Only an occasional scheduled free time is open. Want to swim? You need to wait until 4:00 pm after MBs. It is for this reason I have occasionally done a non-camp outing week. It makes a great opportunity for the older scouts. There's a lot more interactions between ages and we can find places to spread out the patrols.

I take it you might be a bit biased towards MAC machines. Not a problem. When I am away from the house, I have to be fluent in the Microsoft world. It's not a problem. But when I am at home, it's a Linux world (not Unix) big difference. The user interfaces are just as easy to use as Windows and tends to be more robust and reliable. The versatility is also more easily usable, too. I can go anywhere, put a CD into any PC and use my Linux. Things are a bit different when it comes to computers. This is why the majority of users world-wide use Linux. And did I mention that a Scout is Thrifty? I'm a 100% cheapskate. I like freebies.

Only in America can one buy a computer operating system (Windows) and all the "work" utilities for making it actually DO something (Microsoft Office) and from then on one can add the programs you would like to actually have on your computer. $$$$$ Outside of America people use the Linux operating system (Ubuntu, Debian, Mint, etc.) and the "work" utilities for making it actually do something (Open Office) and from then on you can add the programs you would like to actually have on your computer....all for FREE. By the way, the last time I checked Microsoft Word still didn't open up Microsoft Works documents. Open Office opens them all. Whenever I need a freebie program that can do more than the one's I need to pay for, I do a search on my Linux machine first. It usually ends up to be my one search. Most American programs let one try it for a few days to see if they think it's worth buying by giving you a crippled version of the program. Otherwise, go with the forever freebies of Linux. One might think of it as Linux is the free market exchange of world-wide developers and Microsoft is the single-payer, one size fits all. And if that isn't enough savings, KODI is a Linux developed program that has been adapted to the PC that will give you truly free Movies and TV programs. It's a bit more complex to set up, but I was able to drop Netflix and Dish. The only thing that isn't out there yet is sports. I have to go to the sports bar to see my favorite games. Where's the MB that handles this kind of practical application of today's technology? And so where did I learn all this stuff? Duh! from my kids!! They can handle it.

Welcome to the forum! Congrats to your kids.

Sorry, I only know the cheap ones that merge standard PDF, those that fill are a bit above my pay grade, and my pocketbook. I would suggest doing a google search for your specific needs. I do know that the Linux people cover a wider range of free software than the Windows people. If you find a Linux that meets your need. Most of the Linus operating systems boot from CD on a PC with Windows. Boot up Linux version that you like, do your PDF thingy, pull the CD and reboot back to windows. Kinda convoluted but some of my software comes in Linux only. Linux is free, too, as are all it's software programs.

Very few scouts wear a uniform anyway. Usually it's piece-meal at best and definitely untucked at worst. Uniforming may be a method, but like the patrol method, it's not universally accepted..

There's nothing in the GTA that says a scout has to wait until his 18th birthday to have it all done. He could just target say his 17th birthday and then enjoy wearing the rank for a year and not have to worry about all the last minute hassle. I sometimes tire of hearing all the "Woe is me" stories about how the scout has all kinds of trouble because he waited too long. He's had 7 years to figure this out.

Unfortunately in our competitive society, winning isn't everything, it's the only thing. There's always the skeptic (either side of the argument) that won't accept facts. Given the proper spin, both sides feel they win, when in fact they both lose.

How's about these hikers? I think you can pick them off the Legionnaire's Website.

Welcome to the forum! Like the OA patch, sew it on the top and sides and along the bottom leaving it unsewn near the button just large enough to get your fingers in there to button the button.

It is my opinion that those creating requirements for the scouts think in the idealistic scout. What every scout should be able to accomplish in terms of the basics of being highly successful in the woods. However, with that being said there is also a practical side to the issue. If BSA touts FC first year, then all the requirements need to be oriented towards 11 year old boys, not some super scout on the verge of taking on more challenging activities. How many boys at that age can distinguish between a native plant and an invasive plant? If it is unrealistic for an 11 year old to do so, the requirement needs to state, Identify 10 plants. I will guarantee it more practical for a boy to identify 10 edible plants, whether they be in a garden or in the woods. Same for animals. I know of people who have skunks as pets, same for rabbits. Does the average 11 year old know the difference between a domestic rabbit and a wild cottontail? Now, I'm not advocating dumbing down the requirements, but they should offer the 11 year old an introduction into the subject, not a mastery of it. With that being said, the Eagle MB's should be the next step beyond that. Sure we have cooking, swimming, first aid as part of the S-FC requirements, but then add a deeper understanding of those subjects once the boys gets through the basics of FC. Teach basic first aid in the FC level of an 11 year old. then expand on that in the Eagle MB, same for cooking, swimming and other subjects that introduce the subject to spark their interest to go on to a deeper understanding on the MB level. As a side note, NONE of these extended, in depth should be offered at summer camp unless the boy is at an age and skill level to be able to handle it. Maybe after the boy takes a nature or ecology MB, he will be able to distinguish between a native and an invasive plant and would be able to feed himself in the woods with edible plants. Wouldn't it be more of a challenge for the boys to provide a meal of edible woodland plants than cooking dinner for the family while taking the cooking MB? Same for the challenge of Wilderness First Aid as a MB? These things can be handled by a 15 year old and are far more practical in the long run. BSA goes to great lengths to make activities age appropriate, but with it comes to S->FC, most of that goes out the window.

While I have all young scouts in my troop, NONE of them picked an Eagle required MB for this year's summer camp. I think it's great. It's a new camp for them, they will be doing all their own cooking, no mess hall, and taking easy MBs, it can't get any better than that.

There's always two choices in everything in life. One can see the downer side of agressive boys, or one can see a go-getter that if channeled correctly can do some pretty amazing things. It always reminds me of the letter Tomas Edison's mom got from his teachers at school. It's a pretty good reason to look on the bright side of things and not let it get you down.

I have often thought that Citizenship MB should suffice for all three. That would get the number back to 11. Well, that's my "good idea" for the day.

I was having a senior moment before, Yes, I carried 2 - 2lt soft Platypus bottles on my trek. Those extra 3-4 oz weren't noticeable unless filled for dry camp that night.

Naw, he can handle the kid who has a nightmare and runs off into the woods at 100 mph screaming at the top of his lungs in the middle of the night. How he got through those woods so fast I'll never know. For me with a flashlight I wasn't catching up very fast. Or the camp ranger shows up in the morning at -10o with a barefoot kid in his pajamas who wandered the full length of the camp in the middle of the night. Scouters hear a crash of glass, got up to investigate and then counted scouts and sleeping bags, the numbers matched. What they didn't know was 2 brothers were sharing a sleeping bag. Lots of 'splainin' to do on that one. Maybe the national guy will write a program proposal to handle such things. Life in the trenches looks a lot different than from an Ivory Tower.

I did the State Defensive Driving Course and it cost the Red Cross $15. Even at that price, I would have paid for it myself. It's a good course.

We make our own neckers, use basic cotton, blaze orange, 36" square, the Mrs. surges the edges and there are no markings on the necker. Cheap, useful and the boys like them. Saw a boy using his necker as a hot pad, another used his to hold his pudgy pie, and followed it up as a napkin. They wash, no big deal. This was two weeks ago at the camporee. If they didn't use them, I wouldn't worry about it, but my boys come with shirts, with tails out, every sort of pants imaginable, and the necker.

I hope you're reading more than just this forum!

I still have my camp necker (a lot cheaper than a t-shirt) from my years at scout camp. I have many of the high adventure neckers as well. To each their own. When I was getting ready for Philmont and hyping up the boys, I would wear different high adventure neckers from my past and it started a lot of discussions. When each boy got a necker for Philmont, as I stated earlier, the others signed them and I, too, have another necker in my collection. My boys in my current troop opted for patrol neckers. Adults wear blaze orange cloth with white border, the border for the boys, (currently only one patrol) is black. When we get enough boys for a second patrol, they can chose their own color. My boys voted to have neckers, 36" square ones, and use them for many tasks around camp and at camporee competitions.

MattR makes excellent sense. These are the things I do with the more aggressive/competitive scouts. The Scout Oath states, "Help OTHER PEOPLE at all times." Competitive people tend to focus on self and this leads to more competitive and aggressive behavior in task management and a lousy leader. While both categories can be self focused, neither will promote a good quality leader. One needs to focus on working to help OTHERS be successful, not just oneself. I have found that the Buddy System works well in promoting leadership. If anyone out there is familiar with the western chuck wagon races held in Cheyenne WY and Calgary AB, they have a team consisting of a chuck wagon with driver, and 4 outriders that load the chuck wagon and it's horses at the start. Once the bell goes off, they outriders load the wagon, release the wagon horses, mount their horses and follow the wagon around a 1 mile track. Even if your wagon crosses the finish line first, it doesn't count unless all your outriders do too. If the boys like to be competitive, that's great, but they need to heavily focus on getting everyone on the team together. Games that promote teamwork are great at this. 8 boys (patrol) against 8 boys in a knot tying competition. Each one has to tie a certain knot. PL needs to assign the knots according to what boy does best with each knot. The winner is when the last boy finishes his knot. If a team loses, either they rearrange the knot tiers or they help the slowest boy get better...as a team. One needs to capitalize on the behavior and not fight it. After the knots, they move on to the next, First Aid and do the same thing, each boy is responsible for part of the success and the last one finished determines the win. If the PL is the best at one thing, he's probably not the best at everything and in order to win, he has to lead all his boys in order to do so.

Some of us do make the adjustments in spite of the challenge. However, if these execs would see how much fun the boys had at summer camp just maybe they would focus more on improving that instead of introducing useless policies that don't focus in on what makes real scouting useful to the boys. If they had to sit on a picnic bench bored to death with 3 citizenship MB's in a row, and have to sit on the sidelines while the boys do swimming and shooting sports, maybe their attitudes would change. Whereas I have never had to deal with female scouters in a unit, nor do push for the FC first year either. BP didn't mind the NSP idea of getting the boys oriented to the troop, but he did emphasize the boys hanging together as friends, which naturally occurs if the adults stay out of the process. I ignored the JTE and other such nonsense. They ride my back a bit but over the years they pretty much leave me alone. My boys like what they are doing in spite of national policies, so I'm happy with the way thing seem to be. Now when things close in on me, there's always a choice on my part to walk away and do something for youth in a way that satisfies me better. As long as my boys are happy, I'm happy.

As one who values personal time, I would never expect anyone National down to the parents that I would require they give up their hard earned vacation to spend it at a camp. But what I would require is that everyone who is employed by BSA be required as part of their work to spend at least one week each year at a random camp. We waste enough money with providing a program designed by the Ivory Tower. Maybe we could spend the money on training them as to what that program does or doesn't do for boys.

Oh, and by the way, your statement makes too much sense, too!