Stosh

asm 411 finished my post. As SM I work only with the boys. That's my job. My CC works with the parents, that's his job. A CC FUNCTIONS as the leader of the adults, my ASM's and I work with the boys. If my CC or any of the other CM's attend an event, they attend as any other parent. They are not there to run the troop, that's my job. The only time I interact with adults is when they are interferring with the operations of the boys, and if that interaction is going to take more than 2 minutes, they are referred to the CC for further discussion. I politely remind them that I work with the boys and if they have a problem with that, take it to the CC. If my CC has a problem with the way I handle things, he has the option of replacing me with someone who better fit's what the adults want. I have no problem with moving on down the road, there are a lot of troops out there that have inquired into my availability. Maybe I would be a better fit somewhere else, but so far my CC has been pleased with what I'm doing and always fields the "issues" that come up on the adult level. Any SM who feels it's his/her job to deal with adults will quickly find out that he/she is wasting precious time with whiney adults and it detracts from his/her time with the boys. I don't babysit boys and I surely don't babysit their parents. I spend a lot of time with parents passing information, being polite, working around their schedules, etc. all for their boys. But as soon as the tone starts to get nasty, I direct them to take their concerns to the CC for further discussion. I can't see the value in trying to worry about one whiney parent at the expense of 25 boys. Stosh

I have always applied the rule that air, not temperature has a greater impact on egg spoilage. I dip my eggs in parafin and seal off the air and they tend to last a lot longer, i.e. a week in the BWCA for example. They also resist breakage having the extra layer of wax on them. For a weekend, I wouldn't worry about them. People who lived in Alaska always had "dock eggs" which were eggs that sat out on the dock for a long period of time before they could be dealt with. They said the only appreciable difference between dock eggs and fresh eggs was that the yolk did not round up and tended to be flat like the albumin when fried. Taste was not affected. They indicated that these eggs were 1-2 weeks in transport without refrigeration. If one is worried about salmonella, just scramble, hard boil or over hard should take care of any worries there. Stosh

Our menus are planned out, quantities defined and costs applied for each meal. This way the boys know how much the meals cost and can merely insert these menus to configure a set figure/cost from which to operate. This way if the boys want to do oatmeal for breakfast, sandwiches for lunch so they can have stead and lobster for supper, it's their choice. If they wish to have steak and eggs for breakfast, stew for lunch and steak and lobster for supper, then they are all aware of how much more it is going to be for their outing. The boys set their budget and work it out with their parents to cover the costs. If they get negative feedback from their parents, it's their responsibility to make financial adjustments for the next outing by setting their budget level accordingly. All decisions on food and costs resides in the patrols. Stosh

Our menus are planned out by each patrol. Nutrition is reviewed by the SPL/SM to insure they are done well. Through a series of these reviews, T-2-1 requirements are implemented to show where any of the meals may be lacking. After a number of these reviews, the patrols are better equipped to make informed decisions and the review process becomes less and less cumbersome. If the boys learn what are acceptable foods with proper nutritional content, they will eventually plan accordingly before submitting them. Stosh

Adults "can't do it all" - boy-led allows the leadership to be spread out over the whole troop and will keep the adults from burning out. Adults that burn out are simply not teaching the boys to lead. I've been working with youth groups for 40 years and have never burned out, simply because when they lead themselves there's no excuse for being over-burdened. Stosh

I use the aluminum mess kit for cleaning purposes. Fill fry pan with water, wipe everything clean of food particles, rinse in fry pan water, and hold over fire to sterilize. After 40 years, never got sick from this method. The newer mess kits have a plastic cup, but cups never wear out so once the fry pan or bucket is shot, buy a new kit, dump the pastic cup and replace with metal one. I have the same cup that I had as a kid in scouts. However, I haven't the foggiest idea how many mess kits I've gone through over the years. Stosh

Tie a bell to the zipper of the tent. It's not as hard as everyone is making it out to be. Put the tent next to any responsible scout/scouter and that should solve the problem. I've had sleepwalkers and some of them are quite good at it. I had one run screaming through the woods as fast as he could. I hit every tree in the woods trying to catch him, how he missed every tree is beyond me. At home I can sleep through thunder storms, but on camp outings, I awake whenever anyone opens a tent zipper without or without bells. Just remember that sleepwalkers can be very lucid and can carry on a normal conversation with you as if they are awake. However, they can't remember a bit of the situation the next morning. Get with the parents and find out how they deal with their boy. They will have plenty of suggestions for you. Good luck. Stosh

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Cheapest aluminum messkit Wal-Mart offers and a spoon. That's it. Stosh

In my troop: PL signs off on his members. ASPL signs off on Troop Officer Corps members. SPL signs off on PL's and ASPL (PL of TOC). And SM signs off on SPL. Written reports on what got signed are done by: Patrol Scribe -> Troop Scribe ASPL -> Troop Scribe SPL -> Troop Scribe SM -> Troop Scribe Troop Scribe complies all the reports and turns them over to ASM Advancement who records them in the computer and then returns reports to Troop Scribe who keeps the paper records. This way we have record of advancement in the boys' book, Troop Scribe reports and ASM-Advancement computer. Stosh

It's going to be hard to sing on the forum so I'll try a couple of examples. Let's say for example, the first four notes of Beethoven's Fifth dit dit dit dah. The signal for victory, the 3 notes one pitch, then fourth note lower. Easier yet might be Mary Had a Little Lamb opening notes or Twinkle Twinkle Little Star opening notes. Just a short musical ditty that the boys will remember. Then if the boys wish to number the patrols off they could do the Beethoven with a single note for patrol #1, two short blasts for patrol #2, etc. Otherwise, just the troop ditty with a patrol ditty, such as Beethoven's Fifth followed by Mary Had a Little Lamb. Another common ditty is the "Charge" that they use at sporting events. One might get a copy of the old bugle calls "Bruce and Emmitt" and pick up an obscure bugle call for a ditty. HALT from a forward march is Dah, Dah Dit, Dah, Dah, Dit, for example with the dit a higher pitch. No matter what is used as long as the members of the troop/patrol know their ditty, they can then stop and listen to the next call and know what to do. Traditionally this ditty was created by the bugler and assigned to a company of the regiment. Regimental call, then the company call, same as troop call, then patrol call. As long as the boys know the ditty and it's not being used by another troop, you should be okay. Just remember that the whole idea behind it is to catch the attention of the boys, certain boys, and then give the command call. Be creative, the more creative your bugler can be, or catchy the ditty, the easier it will be for the boys to remember. It's going to be difficult enough for the boys to learn all the calls. The bugler is going to have to be patient enough teach it and then use it often enough so the boys can learn it from rote. Eventually, the SM will get up from his lawn chair, stretch, say to the bugler, "Call Retreat" and all the boys should be back in camp in about 5 minutes. When patrol #3 gets 2 minutes out from serving dinner, the grubmaster tells the bugler, "Wolf Patrol, mess call," and all the boys from that patrol should have mess kit in hand ready to go in about 2-3 minutes. At 10:00 pm, the SM says, "Time for Taps," the bugler plays Troop Ditty/Taps and heads for bed. Next morning, SPL rouses the bugler by saying, "First Call" and he hops out of bed cheery and bright and sounds off Troop Ditty/FIRST CALL, followed 15 minutes later with Troop/REVEILLE. Quick Roll Call to make sure everyone's up, and a half hour later, automatically plays Troop Ditty/ASSEMBLY and the boys fall in with full uniform ready for morning flags (parade). When the camp bugler plays Camp Ditty/TO THE COLOR, the troop Bugler echoes it and off they go to flags. The reason the Bugler is a POR is because it's really a functional position with a ton of responsibility if done right. If not, it's a patch for the scout to gain rank without having to do any work. Stosh Oh, to live in a perfect world.

Traditional calls for these reasons. Assembly Gather in your patrols, yell, flag, line up, quick inspection. First Call Also known as musicians call. Usually played 15 minutes before revellie. Buglers, drummers and fifers gather for the first time each day. Officer's Call Call the PLC together To the Colors (Which is played in place of the National Anthem when a band is not available) TO THE COLOR if only the American Flag is being used. Colors was a term used to indicate National and regimental flags together. The patrols start moving to the parade ground at the sounding of the last note. Played so that the patrols having gathered in camp now move to the parade line Taps Traditionally played on the drum. Drummer quietly tapped out quiet beats to mark the end of the day. All lights were out at the last tap. Now it's the last call of the night, replaced LIGHTS OUT after the Civil War. Eventually drum taps were dropped when the bugle call TAPS was introduced. Reveille Out of bed and lined up in patrols by the end of the call. Boys usually get a 15 minute heads up having heard FIRST CALL gathering the musicians. No excuse not to be up and ready by the time revielle is sounded. Tattoo ? Mess Call, Church Call, Fatigue Call, Sick Call, etc. were all used to indicate certain activities that were going to be happening during the day. Retreat End of the activity, return to camp. Typical Day: First Call Reveille Assembly To the Color(s) Retreat Mess Call Officers Call Church Call (if Sunday) Retreat Sick Call Fatigue Call Retreat Mess Call Fatigue Call Retreat Mess Call Assembly To the Color(s) Retreat Taps Hope this helps. Also a troop/patrol needs a 4-5 note ditty to indicate that the bugle call is for them and not someone else. I.e. If the ditty indicates a troop, everyone in the troop does it. If it's a patrol ditty, then just that patrol is to listen to the call. It might be the troop ditty followe by the patrol ditty. If a camp has 20 troop buglers, how are your boys going to know which bugler to listen to, especially if he's calling the boys back to their own camp and he's a long ways off? Stosh

asm 411, that is exactly why the home school kids are in my crew! Stosh

An hour and a half??????? What's wrong with your teaching? Back in the 1940's BSA produced a booklet on learning to play the bugle in 5 minutes. Let's go back to the early days, our boys would appreciate it!!! Stosh

My crew is about half/half public/home schooled and we haven't had any problems. How about a home school patrol within the troop? At least they would be with their friends. Like Venturing, specialty troops have difficulty surviving. Stosh

I'm assuming that as well, my local council knew nothing of it and the link doesn't work. Stosh

Being a troop bugler and getting the Bugling/Music MB are two different issues. If he is already a trumpet player, having him learn the calls does not require anything other than the music. There may be two or three other boys wishing to get the Music MB and so YP can be covered with no problem and more boys than just the bugler can get the MB. Stosh

Well, there goes both of my two units after July 1st. I'm WB trained but not the real kind. I've trained in every level of scouting from Cubbing to Venturing and hold a PhD in UofS. I have over 40 years working with youth. And when all is said and done, the only thing that counts is my Youth Protection and Safe Swim certifications. I'm thinking this is going to be a fiasco if they try and implement it. What's the sense of having a unit if it can't go anywhere? Stosh

There's a point where being safe should never be take for granted. I work as an admin asst for people in a major manufacturing operation where safety is take VERY seriously. No meeting is ever held without starting out with explanation of emergency exits and pairing up in a buddy system should there be an evacuation. Then they are told where the bathrooms are and then there is a safety tip presented. All three things happen for all meetings! Are the boys trained to the area your activity is? Do they all know where the nearest haven is? are they buddied up in case of an emergency? Do all the boys know what to do when a thunderstorm approaches? Too often an occasional reference training is done annually, but is safety re-emphasized on every outing? or only when a black cloud forms on the horizon? There's no such thing as being too safe and if this parent raises the awareness of the troop, maybe it's a good thing. Stosh

ems021 is correct. The TOC forms it's own "patrol" and is responsible for support (leadership) over their charges. This expands the leadership responsibilities. The TOC scribe works with the scribes of the patrols. The TOC QM works with the QM's of the patrols, etc. This way the patrol personnel take care of their patrol's concerns and are supported in their efforts by a troop level person of similar responsibility and are usually more experienced. A patrol scribe may move up to TOC scribe having shown he is capable of helping other scribes within the patrols. As an example, the patrols all work on advancement, the patrol scribe records the efforts and turns in a report to the TOC scribe who compiles all the reports and turns them into the advancement ASM to record in the computer. The TOC scribe then retains the records after the ASM is done with them. The patrol QM's work the same way. If a patrol is in need of equipment for an outing, they make their request to the TOC QM who reviews all the requests and metes out equipment fairly among the patrols and helps them acquire the necessary gear for the outing if there is a shortage. DC's are included in the TOC because many of their duties take them away from their patrol responsibilities to work with the dens and it would be unfair to short-change the patrols with getting ready for activities when their attendance is sometimes kinda spotty. The Chaplain's Aide works with each patrol and holds devotions on a troop-wide basis as needed. TOC Instructors work with patrol instructors teaching them how to teach. We find this setup quite beneficial because the experienced scouts are working with less-experienced scouts in their specific areas of POR. The patrols are then free to devote their time for patrol activities knowing they can get assistance from older scouts whenever they run into a snag. The ASPL plays a vital role in assisting any of these TOC members should they run into problems and organizes them for the TOC outings. Because they are the experienced leaders, they take less time organizing outings and thus are available for the patrols should they need help. The SPL devotes his efforts in assisting the PL's direct their patrol activities when requested. Stosh Stosh

My SPL is responsible for supporting the PL's, the ASPL is responsible for supporting the Troop Officer Corps, i.e. Chaplain Aide, Scribe, QM, etc. The TOC forms a patrol at outings and the SPL bunks with them but remains responsive to the needs of the PL's. Stosh

Just don't tell any parents about the bears, snakes, avalanches, earthquakes, forest fires, choppy lakes, etc. or you will lose your scout. If the boy's going to have an accident, it's better he twist an ankle walking next door to his buddy's. Stosh

Our crew recruits constantly, word of mouth does the best. We do school presentations all the time (living history) and constantly make the kids aware of what we are doing and how they might wish to join up. At events (reenactments), all boys/girls that stop by and show interest they are handed a pamphlet and if possible we get a name, phone number, and e-mail for follow-up contact. Yet because of the specialty we follow, our group remains small. Our biggest contribution is that we are a "feeder pack" for our chartering organization which allows our boys to continue on into adulthood with their crew pards. We have 3 "boys" right now that started with the crew and are now affiliated with the chartering organization because the hobby can be practiced throughout their lifetime. Stosh

Until the perception of Venturing as an extension of BSA or BSA older boys doing more fun stuff, Venturing as it is intended will never fly. Too often Venturing crews are nothing more than an excuse to have girls in a venture patrol. Well the program was not designed as such, but when treated as such they complain about it not working. Go figure. Venturing is as different from Boy Scouts as Cub Scouts is and it has nothing to do with ages. Once people realize that, then maybe Venturing will have a chance to grow into what it is intended to be. SM's who are also CA's do not think any differently from one program to the other. Unless they are willing to do things appropriate to the program, Venturing will be nothing more than super scouts with girls. I chose my Venturing program with the sole purpose of being VERY different from what I was doing in Boy Scouts as a SM. For this reason, I have been able to have a successful program. Had I chosen a high adventure (code word for BSA Venture Patrol) I don't know if I would have been as successful. I know most of these crews fall apart rather quickly because expectations are different than what the program was designed to be. Stosh

Quality leadership and structure is totally two different issues when defining a Venturing Crew. Not all crews are the same and one size doesn't fit all. I am a SM and CA and I run the two units totally different yet under the same BSA umbrella. My troop is 100% boy-led, patrol-method and yet with my crew, it's 100% adult led*. Both are very successful and I have to constantly remind myself I have to shift gears when going back and forth between the two. * On the field it is 100% adult-led, but in meetings it's about 50/50 between the youth and adults. Our unit is run as any other reenactment group in the style of what we are portraying and as captain of the unit, my decisions are followed precisely or we wouldn't last in the hobby. If it wasn't this way, the crew would fall apart because we wouldn't be able to find any activities for the boys to participate in. Because we are now getting boys to the level of command leadership in the hobby, they have on occasion taken command of the unit and led at an event, where they hold sway over both youth and adults in the unit. Stosh