Stosh

Hmm, I have never been one to promote Eagle as an individual accomplishment, the Scout Law mandates, "help other people at all times." One doesn't attain Eagle of any worth if it is for just one's individual gain. Real Eagles lead (and help other people) at all times. One needs other people in order to have followers.

Well, we are talking about the "fumes" here and that means 15-18 year olds. So if the all-boy aspect isn't important, why isn't Venturing setting any records? They opened the doors for co-ed older scouts and it just ain't doin' what it's s;posed to. As a matter of fact, one could make the case that the "fumes" are hitting Venturing harder than they are Boy Scouting and Venturing is bending over backwards going nowhere.

We all set priorities, we all make choices. I went out for golf in high school. Was a pretty good golfer. Made the team, but my English teacher told me I had to do a make up test after school. I knew I had taken the test, but he insisted. Told the coach what happened, he explained I had a choice to make. To avoid a zero on a test score, I took the test, got 100% (I knew all the answers, duh!) and spent the rest of the season in study hall instead of golfing, Went golfing with my buddies after school was out. Sometimes life just isn't fair.

Do any of the units out there plan their annual calendar with the school calendar in hand? Surely it's no secret what the sports program schedules are. It used to be one night a week was set aside for religious instruction and Sunday mornings were off limits, but in recent years that has gone by the wayside as well. As mentioned, it's priorities, and one of the troop's priorities is to work around the excuses offered up be scouts being in other programs. As far as priorities are concerned, I own a 1974 Nova that has had plenty of prom nights out with Eagle Scouts who have stayed the course. When one has a car like that, competition with the "fumes" seems to be a bit of a challenge for them to skip scouts.

Is it just me or is there something about the notion of "girls, cars, and jobs" that doesn't ring true in the debate of attendance? Sports don't seem to suffer from such affects...... School extra curricular activities don't seem to suffer from such affects..... Families are a bit hit and miss, but generally family trumps the situation.... Karate doesn't seem to suffer from such affects.... LAN parties that last all weekend long don't seem to suffer from such affects.... So what do they know that BSA hasn't figured out in today's culture?

.... the opportunity of choosing for an all-boys alternative to the myriad of co-ed programs? I do believe there are still many out there that have "boys night out" on their calendars for a reason.

I am the only one I know of that has patrol neckers in my troop. Most troops have troop neckers. There have been uniform police question me on this practice. I always say the necker is optional and they can wear whatever they want and they want patrol neckers. And then we turn to the Cubs.... well they have den neckers... and even if they went to a Pack necker, they would still be hyping the plaid for the Webelos boys. It's hypocrisy like this that keep the OCD uniform police awake at night.

The caveat in your comment "for us". There's a whole world out there that doesn't take into consideration the myriad of possibilities of getting bit in the butt. I just hate to see good scouters run aground because they weren't paying attention.

7 or 8 hours at night is about 1/3 of the activity time. And it is the time of darkness. I wouldn't classify that as BS. Everyone has their own level of risk they are willing to live with. At my age and have been in awkward situations and have seen what it can do to a person's life. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

Co-ed leadership requirements are pretty much irrelevant. A boy could accuse a female leader of inappropriate behavior, and he could accuse a male leader of inappropriate behavior. But then a girl could accuse a female leader of inappropriate behavior, and she could accuse a male leader of inappropriate behavior. Well then, how's that co-ed leadership thingy working out for you. 2 deep will get you better mileage than co-ed leadership. So now we run the scenario, the co-ed leadership is isolated from each other at times due to the situation. Where's the 2-deep backup at this point? After 45+ years of working with youth, have I ever been questioned by the authorities about certain situations? Yep, and it ain't no fun. It is not a case of your word against theirs. It's an issue of proving your innocence by proving the youth is lying and one had better come prepared to do just that. No holds barred, bare knuckle, or you might as well sign off your future until you die, as a registered sex offender. Bend all the YPT rules, redefine them a hundred different ways, interpret them as you feel best fits your style, but in a court of law, they might just toss that all out and measure the merits of the case on common law, not YPT rules.

After a few years of putting up with the constant whining of lost slides, I finally got my boys on track and to-date NONE of them has ever lost one. Conventional wisdom says that the woggle is applied at the base of two tapering pieces of ever thickening cloth. It is held in place by the friction of the cloth and often times rather smooth wood or metal surfaces. Eventually the laws of nature take over (gravity pulling down) and the decreasing thickness of the actual necker ends means eventually it will fall off and get lost. I know it doesn't happen very often, but it most often traumatizes first year scouts so that they have difficulty finishing up their Eagle projects by their 18th birthday. In order to provide safe spaces and reduce woggle-loss triggers, there are two alternatives. My boys have either tied a knot in the necker tails or they have gone to the vertical application of the woggle. Because our neckers are larger than most, the vertical application method is preferred. I use paracord to make 4 strand woggles. Whatever the woggle, it must not be displayable horizontal only. Take the standard Turk's Head woggle, it can be displayd horizontally and vertically. Thus it works the best. Put one necker tail in the "top" of the woggle, and thread the other necker tail into the opposite "bottom) of the woggle. So now you have a vertical necker with necker tails crossing inside the necker and coming out opposite sides. Tie a square knot in the ends of the two necker tails and it is impossible to get the woggle off without untying the knot. There have been a couple of cases where such woggles have been lost, but they were still on the necker, around the lost scout's neck..

Wealth and power are akin to taking dirt out of the ground. It's tangible and it leaves a hole and is measurable. Faith in one's religion is intangible and is akin to taking water out of the lake. Good luck with trying to measure that,

Uniforms are not required, but if they have one they are encouraged to look nice for the BOR and they can sit down. Our BOR's are very informal and have been held during camping weekends...around the fire. When we didn't have enough people at the outing to make up a board, we asked neighboring troop leaders to do it for us. We usually run with only 2 adults, both leaders (SM/ASM), neither qualify to be on the board. So far we haven't had any problems with the process. I do as SM assist the boy in gathering up adults when asked, otherwise many of the boys will go to other campsites and enlist enough adults to to a board for him. I don't know of any adults that ever refused them.

As a further note on my first posting, I in no way meant to imply that 1) the MB Counselor uses the worksheets, 2) the boys have to fill them out if they don't want, or 3) it was anything resembling an "official record" of anything. If a boy wants to take a MB and would like a worksheet to help him with it. We print one off for him and hand it along with the blue card. He's responsible for giving the blue card to the counselor, he keeps the worksheet for his own personal use, to focus on the subject, to take notes or if the class is especially boring, make an airplane. It's his to do with as he wishes.

....and did that protect the adults from any improper accusations? Or weren't there any..... this time?

There's a few on the forum that find what I say a problem, I'm glad you have taken it in intent in which it was given. I for one use sandals only in camp showers. Otherwise around the house and yard, I do a lot barefoot or if needed, heavy boots. Kinda one way or the other. Back in the '60's when sandals were in "style" I did wear them a lot, but without socks, the wear against skin was a bit harsh. Never could do the touristy sandals and socks routine.

We have found that the dreaded worksheets do help some of the boys, we make them available to those that want them. Not all boys learn in the same way, but those who have used the worksheets have found them useful in focusing on what's important and clarifying many of the requirements. But as I said, not everyone learns in the same way. For us it's optional whether they use them or not.

This is always a tough one. for millennia humans have waged war on each other for a number of reasons, land, wealth, power, etc. yet even the savagery of the past doesn't compare to the scope and ferocity of today's religious holocaust. There was agreements and understandings that don't apply today. but it has only been in recent years that history has shown what such destruction based on intangible ideology can wreck. This is uncharted territory in many respects and it's going to take a global effort to put a halt to it. I don't see it happening very quickly.. From the time of the early Greeks, mankind has sought to better itself through technological and philosophical expansion. The Greeks and the Romans held it together pretty well. The polytheistic attitudes of the times pretty much followed the "live and let live" ideal as long as no one made waves. In many respects civilization flourished. The Library at Alexandria held a wealth of knowledge that when that was destroyed, humanity plunged into a morass of pain that lasted for over many generations until humans figured out it wasn't working. Much of what we base our current state of affairs on has simply been a rediscovery of what others once knew. What surprises me the most is that Islam, Judaism and Christianity are all based on the same principles of civilization, the 10 Commandments, and yet these seem to be the focus of today's strife. Go figure. It makes no sense whatsoever. But when one accompanies that ideology with fanaticism, the power to stop it becomes more difficult. And to what end? Whereas today's Islamism struggles to gain power and control over others, they will soon realize that once the tables are turned, the process merely starts over coming the other direction. There will always be those that don't buy into the system even if that's what has occurred. Persecution has always been part of our history. 2,000 years ago, the Christians were severely persecuted, then the Reformation came along and Christians started persecuting Christians. The Jews haven't fared all that well over those 2,000 years either. Once Islam began it's religious imperialism during the Crusade period, they have joined in the fray. The Greek and Roman ideology of live and let live collapsed when the empire disintegrated. The destruction of human knowledge and achievement, coupled with today's technology has the potential of once again putting humankind back into the stone age. And for what reason? Political and religious ideology that history has proven over and over again, simply simply doesn't work, can't be sustained, and ruins the lives of millions in the process. America once touted itself success on being the melting pot of the world, yet today's political climate of intolerance permeates every corner of the nation. This destructive downward cycle will insure that the lesson not learned from the destruction of the Library at Alexandria will only set back civilization and it's technological advancements for hundreds of years. What the world decides in the next few years will determine the outcome of humanity. After all 99% of all species that walked the face of this planet have become extinct, humanity may not be able to escape that same fate. It's a choice we all need to make and be made soon. The world wide brotherhood of Scouting is part of that choice. Either one is for something or against it. To sit on the fence is a useless choice. It's time to bring in an era of tolerance, not lip-service tolerance, but real tolerance for one another. That means saying no to the intolerant Christian, the intolerant Jew, the intolerant Muslim, the intolerant Atheist, etc. The Greeks and Romans made the ideology of live and let live a reality, we've been destroying that ever since.

Neckers? As I have mentioned, my boys like them, they wear them, they use them for other purposes. The troop is in an economically depressed area of town. The boys work hard at getting a uniform shirt. Just maybe, but not always, they get a camp t-shirt on their own. The closest thing to a "class-b" shirt is a t-shirt with no writing on it. So, with that being said, they wear the scout shirt and when "relaxing in camp" they take the shirt off on a not day, but soak the necker and put it around their neck to stay cool. I don't think I would make a big stink about the necker, but for some reason my boys really like them. Maybe, just maybe, it is because they were given to them by Mrs. Stosh when they crossed over. Every boy that crossed over got one with the stipulation that 1) it doesn't belong to them, she made them, she owns them. 2) it will cost the boy $15 and an apology to her if they need another because it got lost, stolen or destroyed, and 3) when they Eagle, it is her gift to them. To date, no one has ever lost or destroyed one, but some of the boys that quit didn't return them. Mrs. Stosh does a lot of beautiful quilting and applique work and I'm thinking that if any of these boys Eagle, there'll be something quite astonishing to replace one with 6-7 years of scouting ground in when they Eagle.

I'm really not a member of the uniform police force, but my boys like the accolades when someone points out how nice they look. It's hard to miss the neckers. As a matter of fact the only negative feedback we ever get is from parents who have to try and make them presentable after a week at camp. The boys wear the uniform all the time at camp except at the waterfront. But I have seen them out in the canoes with the uniform on. Hard to miss the blaze orange. I do agree that not all SM's are capable to inspiring the necker among the boys, but I tie it to the opening and closing flag ceremony where looking good makes one appreciate the dedication and respect for the flag and all those who struggled to maintain it's freedom. We nicely and respectfully fold the flag, but it's just as important to button up and tuck in to nicely and respectfully present it at a flag ceremony. Occasionally I remind the boys that the flag ceremony is the most important thing they are going to be doing at the meeting. My boys are from a depressed part of town. I do not expect socks, belts and pants, but what they do have, I encourage them to do their best with it. The necker makes them stand out from the rest of the sea of tan shirts one most often sees.

Well, if he does, it's one for the books. TAHAWK doesn't make typos very often and this one's great if it is. If not, I bet his boys wear sandals to show them off.

@Col. Flagg Okay, I just gotta ask: Do you really think @The Latin Scot's members have their own troop emblazoned, custom made, hand crafted Scout socks?

As I mentioned before my boys wear blaze orange with black trim. For Christmas they all got black paracord woggles to go with it. They haven't lost one yet.

I did notice that in spite of the fact that it had been on the package, the #12 Dutch ovens from Lodge no longer has the BSA logo on it. It would do well for public relations to endorse certain items and get their logo out in front of the public more often. To me, it might be as powerful a marking as the UL on electrical appliances and the Good Housekeeping seal on other household items. Of course a bit of royalty dollars rolling in for such an endorsement wouldn't hurt the bottom line for BSA either.

While the camp does offer a lot of adult training (more so than in years ago), there's really not much for the over trained adult who's all caught up with their credentials. A couple of years back I went through the training with a new ASM to get her up-to-date and was so disappointed in the teaching, I have no inclination to doing that again. I take a book or two to read instead. I make it a personal policy to not run around "checking up" on my boys but leave that responsibility to my PL's. I have intervened on occasion when the boys complained about what they were learning from a particular teacher. One First Year Scouter program was so poorly run, the boys asked me to reteach it again after we got home. I did visit the class and they had just cause.