Stosh

Situations arise all the time and I've been guilty of them from time to time. An adult and/or boy runs the risk at more opportunities than one wishes to consider. Last night we had an open house for the new Webelos boys. My SPL (3 months short of his 18th birthday) did a fantastic job of having patches laid on tables, a PowerPoint preso on a laptop, Dutch oven cooking and other activities for the patrol to have fun with the visitors. His dad showed up and when the activity broke up he left telling his son he'd see him back at home in few minutes. The boy had to pack up all his stuff because he drove himself early to set everything up. Well, I stayed and helped him load up his car. My choice? Leave him there alone or stay and help him pack up his car. Neither was a viable option under YP. Yes, we all take chances and hope that one can avoid as many situations as possible, but it's not always possible. Stosh

A lot to do with Venturing is how it works or can work in conjunction with the Boy Scout program. When I first started my Crew a lot of Scouts wanted to join in. SM's were threatened by this because we were "stealing" away their top boys. But having been in Scouting before Venturing I headed this argument off at the pass. It is a solid rule that if one is already registered as a Boy Scout they MUST dual register with the Crew and MUST continue on with the troop and attain Eagle to stay with the Crew. To date I have a record of 12 Eagles, none of which I had the honor of presenting their Eagle award to. I have had only one boy not make Eagle who came in under this requirement and when he dropped the troop he also dropped the crew. I've never had a SM complain to me that I stole their boys, but I have had them thank me for keeping their boys going in the troops. This kind of cooperation works both ways to the benefit of both programs. Only when adults argue about it and get territorial do things fall apart. Stosh

I use a different measurement of leadership that prerequistes any training in skills and/or knowledge with caring. If a boy or adult doesn't care to begin with no amount of training is going to make any difference. Just having the beads is one thing, caring enough to put in the time and effort to improve oneself for the boys is something far different. Don't need beads for that. One can go through college with a 4.0 GPA, but unless they care and have a passion for their subject they aren't going to be as successful as the student who has a 2.1 GPA, but eats, sleeps and hungers for the subject. Give me an unskilled newbie that wants and cares enough to learn and he/she will be a great leader someday. Give me the best trained person in the world who doesn't care, and it goes nowhere. A caring person who doesn't know something, will quickly learn it, a non-caring person will sit for hours in training and walk away with nothing. Stosh

As we all know there are a ton of "different" way of handling common problems. Even councils differ as do districts and troops. The nice thing about the forum is one gets a wider view at the many options out there. Yes, the ultimate decision is mine and yet it's important to get as much input as necessary before making a decision as important as this one. I don't do the knee jerk kinda decision making that others do just fine with. I figure when I get all the options into consideration I'll be able to cherry pick the best for the boy and his growth. This is serious, but it's nothing that will bring the universe crashing down on us in the next few days. Time is on my side and this boy has enough cushion to get his act together in the next few months. Stosh

Sometimes I wear the troop necker. Sometimes I wear my WB necker. Sometimes I wear no necker. Sometimes I wear a green tie. Sometimes I wear a tan shirt, sometimes a historic green, sometimes a Venturing green, sometimes I wear a Civil War uniform (Venturing Crew - US History). My boys have picked up on this and they all wear a full uniform of some sort. Some are with the new tan w/green, some old tan w/red, some with historic green w/garrison cap. Some wear the troop necker, some with their POR necker, etc. But the common thread amongst all this diversity is a desire to be fully uniformed and it can be a good thing. I have one boy that has a uniform that his mother has tried extraordinary efforts to clean up after he wore it for a full week of summer camp. It looks terrible, but he wears it as a badge of honor that says, I'm in the fray and I'm not afraid to roll up my sleeves and pitch in. He also wears a campaign hat as part of his expression of uniform. One of my patrols carries a 6' walking stick with hook which they have determined is part of their uniform. We may be all over the map with what we do, but no one can say that we aren't 100% uniformed at all activities. No other troop in the council can make that claim. What's the best? The best is the pride one has in wearing the BSA uniform in whatever configuration expresses it the best. Stosh

It is my opinion that one of the biggest problems with the cross-over transition for boys of this age is the hype everyone places on the AOL as some kind of FINAL step in scouting. It's like the decision one faces when they reach graduation in high school. It's over and done with and now there are other options out there to consider. When boys at age 11 "graduate" it's like Boy Scouts is just one of a dozen options out there that may or may not apply to them. Boys don't graduate from Tigers, Wolves, or Bears, so why do they graduate from Webelos? It's the same dynamics that apply to Eagle. Once you get your Eagle you graduate from Boy Scouts because there is nothing more after that of any value. I don't think it's as much a problem with the perception of the boys in as much as it's the perception of the adults that convince the boys that AOL and Eagle are end points in a progression. Right now I have a boy that is going to turn in 18 in January of next year. He should be finishing up his Eagle and now I'm working with him to get his adult training lined up. His Basics, G2SS, SA and SSD are all on his agenda in the next few months and he's considering taking Wood Badge next summer if we can work out his schedule. We as adults should be reinforcing each step as a continum of future endeavors. If the boys are convinced that after the first step of the journey that the trip is over, surely they won't continue. Maybe this is why I have charter members of my Venturing Crew that are now adult advisors. I constantly reinforce the idea that once you start something, it ain't over until the fat lady sings. Yes, I started out in Cub Scouts and and still a member of BSA as an adult. No adult ever convinced me I needed to keep it going, but I figured it out on my own. Maybe we ought to be doing more to show the boys starting in Tiger Cubs that this is just the start of journey that will continue on for the rest of their lives. Just by asking the question "Is it time yet?" it causes me to wonder if that is the problem. Why are we even having to ask that question. It should be the furthest from our minds when we are helping these kids with their journey of life. It ain't over 'til it's over. What kind of life would I have if I woke up every morning asking myself this question? Stosh

Update: I have visited with his parents and are both on the same page that what I decide is the course of action they will support. I have visited with CC and agreed that both he and I had signed the application and that was proper at the time. I have visited with the UC and he suggested that I sit on the recommendation for a minimum of 6 months to offer the boy the opportunity to get his act together. I have visited with the Eagle Council Committee Chair and he suggested I sit on the recommendation for a period of time to give the boy a chance to correct not only the situation but his attitude and giving him some time to mature in his leadership skills. The boy called to apologize for the miscommunication, but said he had delegated off the decision for their action to one of the boys of the patrol and wouldn't take responsibility for the problems that the boy caused. In other words, he threw him under the bus. The boy will miss this week's meeting, but should be available to discuss further, with parents and CC present. I am leaning towards the UC and Eagle Chairman's suggestion and hold off on the recommendation which is required before a EBOR can be convened. Twocubdad: I don't think I'm as steamed as I am disappointed. Both in the boy and in my inability to deal with his attitude. I'm bending over backwards trying to make an opportunity for this boy and not have any feelings of vindication interfere in these decisions. Everything I do, I want it to be for the boy and not his Eagle status. Stosh

I have a boy that has been doing just enough to get buy. Now that I've signed his application for Eagle he has pulled a stunt that far exceeds his slacking off. He took his patrol and left a camporee early without any adult approval. He called another parent to come and pick them up and then snuck out of camp. I still have to make a written recommendation as his SM. (I'm thinking he didn't know this part of the process, he's indicated he's in the clear to get his Eagle and then is going to quit the troop.) My question is, if I do not recommend this scout at the present time, will he be able to reapply again when he gets his act together? Or do I sit on the recommendation because he can apply only once? Stosh

One can earn this award as a CA as well. Just put the right device on it. I've earned the Training Award in both Scouts and Venturing, and when I get my tenure in, I'll have the Key in both areas as well. Stosh

I don't start threads very often, but I was curious: How does your troop deal with homesickness? Stosh

Gee, you forgot all the other options. I have one boy with green pants with red piping, green shirt with community strip/state and garrison cap. EVERYONE in the council knows who he is by sight, but not necessarily by name. You know, the kid in the green uniform! About half my boys have the older pants because they are cheap off of E-bay. If it says BSA on it, it's official and acceptable in our troop which is fully uniformed. At last month's uniform inspection I had one of the younger boys pull up the pants legs of his uniform when I came by. I glanced down and asked: "New socks?" "Yep", he said with a big grin. Stosh

My Life scout PL of the NSP, basically did all the cooking for his patrol all weekend long last weekend because he was teaching them the basics of campfire/charcoal cooking. We teach that the camp chores are a team effort, not just that John got stuck with cooking and Pete got stuck with fire and Mike got stuck with water. With a delegation style of leadership these rosters are mandatory. With team style, each boy is responsible for knowing what everyone else is doing, if not his only question is: "What can I do to help?" Once a year when the boys do their annual planning session on a campout, the SM is chief cook and bottlewasher and he has a whole corps of ASM sou-chefs. The boys tend to business of planning and the SM/ASM's introduce new menu ideas by doing elaborate meals that are easy to make. I am usually the first one up and they know I'm going to cook, so if someone gets up before me, they usually start the fire and the second one up usually gets water ready for after meal cleanup, etc. When boys witness such teamwork, they naturally view this as what is normally having to be done. This last weekend when the PL was teaching the boys how to cook, he was using the "Brule Menu", i.e. the menu from last year's planning weekend when we went to the Brule River for the outing. EVERYONE leads by example, from the SM right on up to the individual patrol members. The nice thing about this is I have a whole year to come up with creative menus to top last year's efforts. Stosh

I was surprised that in my company which is a multi-billion dollar, international company, it has a large number of Eagle Scouts working in management, especially the engineering department. When they find out in casual conversation that I'm a SM and CA, I get the Eagle response quite frequently, that even after many years later, they still find it easy to mention it to other fellow scouters. Stosh

I don't seem to draw any flack from parents, but I have a system by which any and all parent issues get resolved. As SM I have an agreement with my CC. I work with the boys, he works with the parents/adults. If there's a problem we all sit down and discuss it, Parent and CC from their perspective, and Boy and SM from the other. It's not that I don't interact with the parents, I do it all the time, but if there is a problem of any sort and the SM and parent can't seem to get a handle on it, the parent has the option to call in the CC (third-party, referee) and sit down and discuss in a open forum. My CC also gives me the heads up on any potential adult leaders for the troop and offers up names for ASM's as available if I want/need them. Of course this only works if there's a common foundation in BSA goals between the SM and CC. My CC is the former SM who burned out doing the adult-led approach and I came in at his request to turn things around using a boy-led approach. He's from a military background, (still active service) and I am laid back and supportive in style. Although we are from two different approaches, even different worlds at time, we compliment each other and make a good tag-team. I don't know what I would do without his support for the troop. Probably burn out like he did. Stosh

GET OFF THE COT! The air constantly recirculates cold under the cot. Remember the principles of geothermals! If you sleep on a block of ice, the temperature of ice is 32 degrees. The air under a cot can get a lot colder than that and constantly recirculate throughout the night! Vapor barrier on the ground, foam pad, another insulation pad is ok, like a folded wool blanket, the bag with another wood blanket wrapped around you inside the bag. Wear wool underwear to bed, wool socks and wool hat which are all fresh and dry, don't wear the sweaty ones you had on all day. The ground may be harder, but it's warmer. Remember the construction of a sleeping bag is not condusive to cold weather. It uses loft to create insulation. If you put your wool blanket over the top, if it doesn't slide off in the middle of the night, it will compress the bag's loft. Wrap yourself up and slide in. Underneath, your body weight will compress 6" of great loft down to a quarter inch of minimal effectiveness. I've slept on snow/ice with this set up and been fine. I've tried for a little comfort on a cot and it has never worked as well. If you absolutely need a cot, get one of those with 2-3" legs and make sure the blanket drops down all the way around or pack with leaves/straw to reduce air circulation under the cot. Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

But of course, how foolish of me to think like an adult. LOL Stosh

Patrol members: PL: Life Scout 16 years old APL: FC 12 years old, (Told me he had to go home to feed his aunt's cat) 3: FC 12 years old, (told me he had to go home to acolyte at church) 4: FC 12 year old, (brother to PL, kept quiet but went along with everyone else) The fifth member of the patrol (FC 12 year old) was not present. He has been offered the position of PL of that patrol, the first year scouts or the new Webelos cross-overs that will be coming in early next month. He has a week to think about it, but either he takes over the patrol and straightens it out or he can get out of the patrol and make something of himself. I was one of two adults on the trip. The other was a parent of a boy in the other patrol (younger boys). The boys waited until I had gone off to the kybo to make their move and leave camp. The other adult wasn't watching that patrol as carefully as he was the younger boys, which I would have assumed he would. The PL in question never discussed anything with me that morning. I had suggested he leave the tents up as long as possible to give them a chance to dry out before packing away. He didn't do this, he packed them away wet. I assumed he would have the boys take them home and dry them out later. I have found out since that the parent that picked them up was unaware of what was going on and took the boys home assuming everything was above board. He picked them up a quarter of a mile away at the camp entrance rather than at our campsite or the camp parking lot which was 75 yards from our site. The parent couldn't come right away and the boys had to wait 45 minutes to get a ride. The other patrol left 15-20 minutes later after searching the camp for the other patrol. As far as the other boys in the patrol are concerned. APL is no longer the APL, the Instructor is no longer the instructor. None of the boys hold a POR as of Monday when NONE of them showed up for the troop meeting. The 5th boy showed up and I discussed his future with him as to what he might want to concider for leadership in the troop. As far as adults knowing what was going on. I knew the boys were antsy to leave having skipped eating breakfast and packing up wet gear, but I never expected them to actually sneak off. I later found out where the cell phone came from that they placed the call with. My ASM had given it to the PL to use because he wasn't feeling very well and if he felt worse he was to call home. I didn't know they had placed a call to another parent for a ride. Cell phones are not allowed on outings. Both the other adult and I carried one and would have made the calls if they were necessary. I had a parent come out on Saturday and pick up her boy who was also not feeling very well. The other parent made the call for him to his mother. None of these boys are off any "hooks" until after an extensive SM conference on the incident. Like boxing, keep your guard up and even though the #1 Scout Law is Trustworthy, don't assume it for a single second. Stosh

The yellow/gold buttons aren't the regulation dark brown either Stosh

"Matt pushed me off the tractor." to which I responded "Who else was on the tractor?" and the Scout replied "Everyone but me." How does one get pushed off a tractor that they weren't on? Stosh

I posted on another thread a situation I had with a patrol this past weekend. I had a patrol walk away and get a ride from a parent rather than wait until everyone else was ready to leave. The PL put up two of his members to come to me with lame-brained excuses to having to leave immediately which I acknowledged. This was taken back to the PL and told him I said it was okay for all to leave. Not only did this put me (SM) into a difficult position, I did not know where this patrol had gone off to. I assumed they went home, but it took me the rest of the day of making phone calls to be sure everyone made it home safely. Needless to say the PL (Eagle candidate, needs SM Conference, Scout Spirit, and EBOR to finish out his Eagle) is no longer the PL and his Eagle SM Conference won't happen any time soon, but a SM Conference will be held on whether or not his career in Scouting is finished. I discussed this with his dad (ASM) who is in complete agreement with me on this. This is the same boy that has indicated he wants to finish up his Eagle so he can quit and his attitude the past year and a half have reflected it. Depending on the foreknowledge of the PL it may in fact fall on the PL to be removed. In this case, yes, in the swimming incident where the PL's patrol sabotaged him, no. Stosh

If one were to assume the worst in any and all communications it would not bode well for any of the comments on the forum. I find that if red flags pop up when I'm reading a post, my first assumption is maybe I've misread it rather than assuming the guy is out to get me. I've accidentally pushed other's buttons on the forum and I have at times taken the Devil's Advocate position, not to cause friction, but to challenge thinking and understanding. I have even asked stupid questions because I didn't understand an issue, not because I'm trying to stir things up, but because I'm having a senior moment or I must plain thick on something. Either way, neither is intended to irritate someone. Occasionally I poke a little fun at something only to find out the other didn't think it was funny. I try to catch these and apologize, but sometimes even that gets buy me. I've been on the forum for some time now and I find that certain posters that comment often, (like Beavah) are sincerely trying their best to provide some quality insight into many different topics. If someone was to make a list of any "trouble makers" on this forum, IF Beavah made the list it'd be on the bottom, but I'm putting my money on Beavah not making the list at all. Me? I'd be in the top 1% Stosh

The PL is responsible for taking care of his boys. The patrol members are responsible for making their PL look good. Leadership is a two-way street. PL was doing his job taking care of his patrol by doing is spot on the roster. Patrol gets punishment just as if it was an individual screwing up. PL trusted his boys and they broke the first Scout Law. It should reflect on their advancement. Untrustworthy boys don't advance. PL should be taking care of his boys, not babysitting them. He was tending to business and the APL screwed up. It would be a shame if the PL lost his position (he may want to give it up if his patrol is filled with screw-ups). Stosh

The former troop I served wanted to do something different and so they went to summer camp in WY, just outside of Yellowstone. Some of the Webelos cross-overs didn't go, some did. It was a two-day drive out there. We went the boys had a great time. This past year the boys selected a new camp because our local camp let them down in many ways the year before. They picked the camp. They registered everyone. They picked the merit badges. They did everything except arrange travel which the adults did. They had a fantastic time and voted unanimously at the end of week to return there next summer. Sometimes when the older boys take ownership of the process they have a tendency not to quit, but are energized to keep on scouting. When adults arbitrarily or politically make unilateral decisions and the boys quit they have no one to blame but themselves. Put it to a vote. All the boys can vote and no adult can. The SM is there to support the boys and if the boy's decide to sky-dive, then maybe he/she should pull the plug on the event, but if they want to go to a BSA camp in Timbuktu, so be it. Summer Camp Woes for me would be, do I have enough people to drive the boys to where they have decided they want to go. Other than that, I just sit back and let them work it out. Stosh

There are three awards that come to mind, and they are all unofficial. 1) Zero-Hero - But that implies the temps dropped below zero. 2) Polar Bear - addaptable to any situation where the temps dropped below freezing 3) Red Flannel Club - More of an antiquated patch. I received it when I was in Boy Scouts for having camped 12 months in a row. Most boys are unaware of what a Red Flannel is. For us it was the red union-suit, the one piece red wool underwear with the drop-door seat in it. Most boys today wouldn't understand its significance. Otherwise, with the patch companies out there, just make one up on your own and announce its significance when presented. It doesn't have to be a patch either. The right pocket and flap can be used for ribbons, lanyards, etc. that don't cost an arm and a leg. Stosh

One might want to consider having the two experienced boys "teach" the new boy and work with him in his advancement. It may go a long way for the three boys to bond before going into Scouts. It'll be good review for the older boys who will make great Instrutors/Troop Guides when they get older. They may also do well as a Den Chief with such experience of working with a new Cub as well. Design activities that will be helpful for the boy, not just today, but tomorrow as well. Stosh