Stosh

1. Coconut Cream 2. Chocolate Silk 3. Key Lime 4. Blueberry 5. Lemon Maringe, Merriange, (you know, the white stuff on top.) Stosh

Anytime I see a patch misplaced I ask the boys if they have ever bothered to read their handbook. On the insides of the front and back covers they are shown where the patches need to go and if one lays the book correctly it also gives the measurements. I have had in the past weekly uniform inspection and walk down the line making adjustments. No slide, not rolled right, etc. and always tell them if they are having trouble getting it right they need to have their moms dress them better next time. Now after a year of this little game, we have taken it to the next step. The PL looks the boys over before coming on line for flags to make sure everything is okay. Now I only address the PL with my comments about how well or not well his boys are. Boy that are not ready, not in full uniform, etc. stand in the back with the adults for flags. It's an uncomfortable place to be and so they correct the problems rather quickly to get back in the ranks with their buddies. Stosh

Demonstrating leadership of whom or what? Leadership of a task means getting it done and one can do that by themselves. Leadership of others is just that others, not just a certain few the SM feels is appropriate. A Eagle candidate that takes on a major project requiring skilled talent and then relies on unskilled people is setting himself up for failure. How is telling a scout to rake leaves from this place to another place any different than telling a skilled landscaper where to plant bushes? Stosh

Each situation must be evaluated and general rules (and bending of rules) need to be adhered to. However, with Council permission, I took by Webelos II den on a wilderness island campout. We left the boat landing with each Scout in a canoe with his parent paddling. We camped on an island with no facilities. And the boys had a blast. (Well, so did the dads.) Did I bend the rules? No, but I got a waiver of the rules. The water was a calm lake and they were never any further than 50 yards from shore. They had to cross a 100 yard open water to get to the island and then stayed within 25' of the shore to get to the campsite. They dug a latrine and whenever they were within 10' of the shore they were required to be in a life-jacket. If you were going to shore fish, you needed a life-jacket. If boys wished to canoe on their own they needed to have two parents on shore and the boys could not go any further than 25' from the location of either of these two adults. This allowed the boys to try out the canoes without their parent. Were rules broken? No, but a well thought out plan with every contingency covered can have certain "requirements" waived. If the rules say Cubs can't be in a canoe on a scout activity, does that mean they can't be in a canoe with life-jacket, with parent in life-jacket and both have passed the BSA swimmers' test? Stosh

When doing night activities, I would differ in that the Buddy System is imperative! A few years back we did a camporee that had stations all over the place in the dark. About 3:00 in the morning we did a head count and one boy was missing. It took about a half hour to find him. He was at a station lying off in the bushes sound asleep. Now that may be an interesting hide and seek option, but it was rather unnerving for the adults for that half hour. Stosh

I have been involved in troop only Eagle projects and Eagle projects that have little or no troop involvement. Some of the projects require non-troop personnel, others don't. It is up to the Eagle candidate to make the call. I had one boy coordinate a church clean up after having an addition put on. The boys and church members were coordinated and supervised by the Eagle candidate. But when professional landscapers came in they were supervised by the scout with the professionals giving advise and direction as to where each plant should be placed and it was done so by unskilled scouts and church members. To me the supervision of the project shows leadership and delegating professional expertise to those who know best is a good option for the supervisor. Use your tools to the best of their abilities. On the other hand I had another Eagle candidate clean up a park and no scout was using a chain saw, but the candidate was directing, identifying trees and coordinating the clean up by non-chain saw personnel after they had finished their part of the work. An Eagle candidate who does not involve professional personnel may in fact be showing less quality leadership than deciding to use the best on the project. Who makes the call? The candidate, not the SM or any other adult in the troop. Both these boys Eagled and will be having their ECOH's in the next few months. I signed off their project proposals with a brief scan to get a general idea of what the projects were, and on the Eagle applications. Otherwise my only other participation in the projects was to bring gloves and come ready to work. Stosh

I'm not to sure on the audition part. I don't think that in prior years that BSA expected the boy to play, but did expect him to learn to play. None of the other POR's require auditions, why would this one be different? Stosh

The experts? I don't know if we can handle the pressure that implies. Stosh

One cannot accurately pinpoint a definition on a subjective, arbitrary situation. In the computer programming world the process is known as fuzzy logic. If a boy attends all activities and fulfills all that is assigned to him is he active? Sure, no one will argue that point. But if he misses one activity or doesn't do what is assigned to him is he active? Well, yeah, I guess so. What if he misses two? three? What if he has a good excuse, and what constitutes a "good" excuse? Is it different if he's active in his church and school than if he was a couch potato? At what point does being active change? Everyone will have a differing point. What then is being tried to accomplish with this thread is define precisely where that differing point lies. Good luck, it just ain't gonna happen!

Clarity on what the Webelos program is supposed to accomplish would be a good start. Many of the Webelos DL's feel that AOL is the goal of their program, not crossing over into Boy Scouts. If that be the emphasis for those 18 months, the boys will be less inclined to join Boy Scouts. As a matter of fact, I have even run across a couple of WDL's who were quite hostile to the Boy Scout program and actually discouraged their continuation. In each circumstance where this has been done, no boys from the Den crossed over into Boy Scouts. Stosh

The conflict isn't with the SM and parent. It is appropriate to go to the person who has the best chance to resolve the conflict (i.e. problem) The conflict was the problem that occurred earlier than the confrontation with the SM. The parent was correct to go to the SM, but in her emotional state it probably wasn't all that productive at first. However, follow up by the SM was able to identify the problem and begin resolution, thus reducing the tension of the situation. Yes, the emotional stress on the SM was evident, but what the parties involved need to remember it's not an issue of somebody's fault, but an issue of problem resolution. Instead of allowing a prolonged butt-chewing, it might have been a bit more productive if the SM, instead of standing quiet, could have engaged this parent and asked for a bit of clarity to how she saw the problem, thus identifying the problem and curtailing the rant. Maybe some BSA training on conflict resolution should be in order. Stosh

All parents are encouraged to come and OBSERVE what is being done on an activity. Anything beyond that is not allowed. I make sure there is a coffee pot on at the SM campfire and all parents are expected to have as much coffee as they wish. Of course if they wish to eat, they are on their own but they cannot eat with the patrols unless prior arrangements are made and this is by invite from the patrol only. If they wish to stay overnight, they are responsible for their own tent/gear and is to be set up in the SM area, not the patrol areas. If they have an issue with the activity, program, whatever, they are to address it to the SM first. They are to not have direct contact with the boys unless it is a safety issue. Stosh

"One weekend of not eating fine dining won't kill anybody." Neither will not eating at all. But one weekend of eating some great food will bring them back for seconds. My boys are learning to cook some pretty fancy things like cheese cake in a dutch oven, ribs with special sauces, Chinese stir-fry and a lot of things that are a lot more healthier eating than hot dogs and boxed mac/cheese. I eat at campouts just as well as I do at home. There's no reason not to. Stosh

Question: what's on the border so as to not allow the thread to be covered over? Every patch I've sewn on my uniform has been done in white thread. No one can tell. What's changed? Stosh

In my troop the troop officers wear their POR and are not part of the patrols. We have taken a hit in membership this year and the boys did nothing to recruit and got nothing in terms of new members. I have 9 boys now and they are all one patrol. However the patrol size is limited to 6-8 boys and so we have one "extra" scout. He's an Eagle and is the TG/SPL/JASM/etc. of the troop. He wears an old red/black patrol patch with an eagle on it. The boy who aged out ahead of him that held a similar situation in the troop wore the red/black long horn patch. In past years the boys have all been given these red/black patches to indicate a bit of their personality. Yes, one of the boys got the squirrel patch. He thought it was cool. Any time I can do some of these minor little things to bring out a bit of pride, I do so. Stosh

I have a problem with all the rules and regulations necessary to define a POR. One needs to be "active" by showing up for X% of the meetings, functions and activities. They have to jump through hoops X, Y and Z, then one gets the prize at the end of the rainbow. What's wrong with just doing the job? At all my SMC's I ask the question, what did you DO to be a PL, or a Chaplain's Aide, or QM, or whatever. If they say nothing, the patch on the shirt means nothing to them and they get nothing in determining the "prize", i.e. credit for advancement. We've had people ask how many POR's can one have at one time? I have an Eagle Scout that's a jack-of-all-trades in the troop. Sometimes he's TG when dealing with the NSP. Other times he's a SPL at camporees, sometimes he's Instructor, etc. etc. etc. He wears no POR patch. If there's a job to do, he pitches in and gets it done. He doesn't need to get a prize, he's done it all, but the key is: He DOES it all! If the PLC makes up all sorts of rules and regulations, I guarantee that that boys will see this as the ultimate, and the adults will see it as a minimum. These arbitrary lines in the sand don't get the job done. I did what I needed to do and now I can sit on my hands. If I go into a SMC and ask a boy what he did to fulfill his POR and he answers me, "As little as possible." and it was exactly enough to get by, he's going to get the POR. The PLC hears this and ups the ante until the POR is so grandiose that no one can meet the requirements and one has only traded one problem for another. If a scout sits across from me and is excited about all the things he did being a PL, or QM, or Scribe, etc. and he's proud of what he was able to do. Then in my book, he gets credit. I had an Aspberger's Syndrome boy that had focus problems and needed a POR. I had him do a "special project". He had just taken the Communications MB and asked if he could do the next COH. Sure, why not. He came back with a complete COH script, the awards were all laid out for the PL's to make their presentations, and the candle holder was replaced with a work of art. He stumbled through the COH as the MC and seemed to be "lost" most of the time. But what he did do well was fantastic, that which he didn't do well was a major stretch that took a lot of courage. Did he get his credit for POR? Duh! No PLC could have put that together as a set of rules and regs. Stosh

Hmmm, if one is going to be using military analogies, one might be better served to use the one Baden Powell used. Scouts... an independent small group that went out separately from any other command and fulfilled a mission using it's own resources and training. If that be the case, it kinda blows the whole military structure because scouts didn't travel with the army, they were detached independent commands that were under "command" of a mission, not an officer. I'm thinking B-P should of called them soldiers rather than scouts if he was thinking along those lines being promoted in today's program. 100 years ago, there was no PCisms and could easily have chosen that definition, but didn't. Stosh

MNBob! LOL~! You bring back to mind the advise my mother gave me many years ago and it works every time. She worked her whole life running a hospital gift shop as a volunteer with a volunteer staff. Her solution to any problem was to identify it, and correct it, but be sure to have something handy to replace it. She would always say, "If you're going to take candy from a baby, you had better have a toy or something to give it in return, or the problem is just starting." If one is preparing to "get rid" of a volunteer they had better have someone standing in the wings ready to take over or all one has done is replaced one problem with another. And remember the person standing in the wings is going to be watching your every move thinking that tomorrow you could be doing that to them as well. Sounds like fun, huh? I've worked with volunteer groups my whole life and whereas one can fire someone from a job, it's nothing but messy with volunteers. When I teach my boys leadership, i.e. Patrol Leader, I explain the dynamics of leadership, but at the SAME TIME, I teach the followers. Their #1 job is to make their patrol leader look good, too. If he is having difficulties are you going to complain or help? If he doesn't do something well, are you going to step in and fill in the blanks? etc. These are the things that most people don't figure out and the only solution they are familiar with is get rid of it and it will go away. Well, life doesn't work that way. Maybe they will go away, but the problem won't. Here's where the CC and MC's are necessary to assist and help with the SM. Have you provided all the necessary opportunities for training? Is the SM proficient in every aspect of the job or do we need to fill in the blanks so he won't be distracted from the boys by doing things s/he's not good at, but the committee can handle easily? We want to teach team work amongst our boys and as adults we need to be setting a good example. Sitting around trying to figure out who's fault a problem is, as I stated before, is a total waste of valuable time. Stosh

I'm trying to sit back and understand the big picture here. There seems to be two issues at play here and the line between the two is getting quite muddled. If there is a problem, the first reaction seems to be is to jump all over someone's case and blame them. That will not solve the problem, but may in fact create more. The SM seems to be the universal target. If some boys are horsing around and they get hurt, it's the SM's fault. If someone wanders off, it's the SM's fault. Okay. Fine. But what does that solve? The problem's still there, the parent's are upset, the SM is feeling guilty for something they had no control over. If the SM is responsible for the program then 1) s/he runs it the way h/she want to and the boys can take a back seat and go along for the ride. 2) the boy's run it and the SM takes his/her chances that s/he won't be blamed down the run when something goes afoul. If there are highly-charged parents around, I'll take my chances with #1 any day. However, that's not what BSA wants. So #2 is stick your neck out and wait, it's gonna be coming your way eventually. Are we in fact setting our SM's up to fail? When all is said and done, what's the purpose of blame? We all love to blame others, it's a career choice for a lot of people. But it is the most useless waste of energy ever created. If there's a problem, solve it no matter who's fault it may be. If it's broken, fix it, who cares who broke it. If something is lost, find it, does it make any difference who lost it? A SM is responsible for teaching leadership and providing a quality program for the boys. Is it the CC's fault if that person doesn't do the job? Is the SM solely responsible? If the boys don't learn are they at fault? This process can go on forever and nothing changes. I live by the Speed Lea's levels of conflict and the only problem level that can be solved is level 1 - identify the problem and fix it.. Blame is level 3 so already the problem has been obscured (level 2) and someone's head is on the chopping block (level 3) and everyone is yet another level removed from solving the problem. Eagledad is standing in the parking lot getting chewed out for a problem that he knows nothing about. If he doesn't have a tough skin, that troop can lose its SM in a heartbeat. Is that the purpose/goal of the parent venting? If not, what exactly is the problem? She never identified the problem so how's it going to get corrected? But suppose she walks up and says, "I'm angry, I'm afraid, and I've lost trust in your ability to care for my child because for X number of hours I was left out of the loop on where my child was. This is clear, precise and identifies the problem. Can the SM begin to correct the situation and take precautions to make sure it doesn't happen again? Yep. But that's not what happened. Instead we have an unhappy parent, a confused SM and no one knows what's going to be done about it in the future. The problem has gotten worse and there's even more info on the table to work with because now there's an angry parent tossed into the mix. Fortunately the situation was taken back to level 1 conflict, the problem was identified and now steps can be taken to correct the situation and put into effect certain procedures to insure it doesn't happen again. How can one implement procedures to correct situations that are unknown? Can't be done, the SM is replaced and someone new is put in there who knows even less than the SM. Now there's a solution that's gotten failure written all over it. Stosh

While taking the Emergency Rescue Technician training, we were taught two knots, double half hitch and figure eight. The double half hitch was used to create a slip loop and the figure eight to create a non-slip loop. Everything was secured with these two knots. While this was many years ago, we used only a "Swiss" seat, D-Ring, and climbing rope. The only "safety" person was the person on the ground during a rappel that could lock you on the line if you were in trouble. Belay rope? No such thing. Kinda makes one wonder how I have lived so long..... Stosh

With thousands of recipes out there that are fantastic, why would one want to pick one that leaves doubt in one's mind about alcohol? Our troop makes a mean chocolate chip cookie cheese cake and it has no alcohol in it. Our beef stew uses apple juice instead of water, but no wine. Our Mountain Man Breakfast doesn't have any vodka in it, and we stick with orange juice neat, but straight up. The boys weren't too impressed with the little umbrellas. If someone in the troop only cooked gourmet and wanted to teach things to the boys, there are plenty of gourmet things out there that don't require alcohol bases. I cook from scratch just about every day at home and the only time I use alcohol is in a glass with a wee bit of cheese and bread as an appetizer. Have I used wine/alcohol in recipes? Sure, but so far haven't found the need to do it at a campout. It reminds me of one Christmas my mother made some gradious bread pudding that needed brandy poured over it and lit on fire. Everyone in my family agreed that the flames went out too soon and should have burned to a cinder before thrown away. After a bite a piece, it went straight to the garbage with a valuable lesson learned. Stosh

Before anyone jumps all over me for not "following the rules", I handle such situations a bit differently. I don't see anything wrong with the idea that at the SMC the boy says, "Even if I didn't wear the bugler POR patch, I did the job for the past 6 months." That seems to get more traction with me than giving him the patch and then let him sit around doing nothing and then give him credit. I have retro applied POR's to boys that actually did the work when they may or may not have worn the patch. I have one boy that lined up a speaker for last night's troop meeting, got the Village President to speak to the boys about their citizenship advancement, got a tour of village hall, and had the whole evening lined out. He did this without being asked. He's come with various programs for the troop on and off for about a year now. He currently wears no POR patch of any sort. I'm thinking that at his SMC if he asks about Instructor POR, I will gladly retro allow it. I have another boy that reads a devotional or gives a prayer at the end of every closing flag ceremony. He asked if it would be alright if he were to do this. I said it sounded like a good idea. He's been doing this for 3 months now, because he has unilaterally decided to do this, I'll be getting him the Chaplain's Aide patch to wear to make it "official". Does he get credit for the first three months or do we start the counting when he sews on the patch? In my book he's been doing the job, he gets the credit. The patch is not an indication of his doing his responsibility, his actions are. If a boy shows up at a SMC with a convincing argument that he has done the work for a POR whether he was assigned it or not, he gets the credit. Stosh

I attended a WB dinner for our council a week or so back and a non-scouter attended with me as my guest. The meal was excellent and while everyone was eating the council played a video of our most recent WB activities to inspire and excite those considering the program. On the ride home we talked about the evening and my guest commented on the video and made the off-the-cuff comment that it appeared to the uneducated eye that WB seemed to be nothing more than a Cub Scout Day Camp for adults. It might be a word to the wise to make sure that the substantive activities be emphasized as much if not more than the fun activities. I value the program immensely and it kind of took me aback to hear this observation of the non-scouter. As I thought back over the video, I can see the validity of this person's observations. Stosh

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't vanilla extract and many other items in this category alcohol based? Stosh

There are certain activities where a scout may need to register to participate. These registrations require a signature from parent or guardian and thus a permission slip is necessary to fulfill the registration. These registrations are over and above any local or national tour permit requirements. Stosh