Stosh

perdidochas! You're going about this all wrong! The week of Summer Camp is the only troop meeting all year long you have around a huge campfire! My boys love it. The Week between Christmas and New Years is the Christmas party, pizza, presents, and the whole ball game! If I tossed out those two meeting, I'd be tossed out as well! My biggest struggle when I came into the troop was Monday night football when Green Bay was playing! I compromised with them, I said I would wrap up the meeting at half time, that way they could get in on watching the end of the game. Stosh

"The rest of them seem to have been reduced to around 10 scouts in their troops. How can you have a dynamic program with less than 10 boys and hold their interest, and these one patrol troops are becoming more and more common." Size isn't the problem, the program is! I have a one patrol troop at the present time and I have no problem "holding their interest." 12 boys: 1 TF 7 FC 2 Star 0 Life 2 Eagle Their big push right now is to start on the Signaling MB and then finish out the year with Stalking MB (aka Tracking for the PC crowd) They all have Pathfinding MB already. One of the Eagles is aging out and the other needs his Signaling MB for his bronze palm! He's working on cleaning up a few other MB's for his silver and he's got 18 months to get the gold in! BTW, he's single-handedly running the patrol/"troop" as the JASM, the only ASM that can participate in the boy run program. This is the same boy that a year ago "quit". I've worked with him and we've struggled and had major problems in which he was held back from his EBOR for 6 months, etc. Yet at his ECOH as he tearfully pinned his mentor pin on me said he wasn't ready to quit yet and said he was looking forward to the next meeting. We compete with a mega troop that sucks up 15-20 boys from the three cub packs each year and has very few boys over the age of 15 in the program. Occasionally a few stick it out to Eagle and then quit/age out. Right now, as a patrol, the boys are in the process of making plans for: 1) Summer camp 2) National Jamboree 3) Whitewater canoeing/kayaking 4) General campout 5) Service projects 6) Signaling MB 7) Tracking MB 8) Get our TF to FC Individually, some of the boys are interested in bugling (he asked me about where to get the music), training (he asked me where the TLC books were), new tents (how many would we need?), popcorn sales (who's going to head it up and go to the round-table to get the information), just to mention a few of the topics mentioned last night. ... all of which they want to finish before school starts this fall. I get worn out just listening to them, and the adults are now in discussion about a tag-team approach to the boys because none of us can keep up alone. The main advantage of the small troop is it is really just a patrol that sees the only limit is the sky. We don't get bogged down in the processes of big troops of multiple patrols. If we get big enough for a second patrol, it's only going to duplicate the situation we currently experience. Stosh

"However one might need to be a little more directive - in the Greater Morongo Valley area I would not hesitate to line the boys up and watch them drink x amount of water every hour rather than relying on each of them to do what they thought was best for their own consumption." EVERYONE drinks! not just the kids! I do Civil War reenacting and the adults need to hear it just as much as the kids. If you don't slosh when you walk, you ain't drinkin' enuff! I've never had a person under my leadership go down to heat. I have had others around me from other groups go down, but none of mine. I've never had anyone get frostbite either! Learn what to do in all circumstances and go out and have fun year 'round! Stosh

The more adult participation in the program, the less the Scout participation. Unless the Scouts are running the show it is, in my estimation, not scouting, it is only a family outing of multiple families. Like I said I have taken on a second ASM to learn to work with the Scouts but only SM and ASM's are on the campouts with the Scouts. With only the SM and an ASM, a well trained program of 3 patrols should be able to go off to summer camp and do very well. After all, that means one has in fact 3-6 leaders (PL's and APL's) present for about 25 scouts. For those camps that require an adult leader for every 10 scouts, that means we would have to have three adults sitting around doing nothing instead of 2. We'd need to buy a bigger coffee pot. Stosh

I'm really on the fence with this one. I'm extensively trained in Business Management and have had a lot of training in psychology and have worked with kids for 40 years. I have had pretty much every bit of training BSA can provide Cub through Venturing and WB (1993) along with working on a doctorate through the University of Scouting, and have EMT, Am. Red Cross First Aid and CPR, etc. etc. etc. until it comes out my kazoo. I train my boys in both the modern NYLT material as well as the Green Bar Bill curriculum. Would I recommend WB? I would have to answer with a resounding, "I don't know!" I have seen some excellent leaders out there that are not WB trained and some WB people I don't have the time of day for. So what would I recommend? If one feels that by taking WB it might give them a bump up in their skills and be able to do a better job, or make them feel more confident, or improve their program, then go for it. If one is confident in what they are doing, their boys are doing well, are excited about the program, progressing and growing, then maybe take a pass. How's that for decisively indecisive! Stosh

I went off to camp with 10 stitches in the bottom of my foot put there the weekend before I left. Slowed me up a bit and kept me out of the water, but it didn't keep me from going to camp. I had a boy 2 years ago break his leg the day before camp started and he managed to get out there by Tuesday. Didn't do the waterfront things, but still managed to show up for MB's etc. It's not as much fun, but there's no reason a broken leg should keep you from going to camp. Aim for the last week of camp and go provisional. A lot of boys who's parents are taking summer vacations while the troop is going to camp find going provisional a great alternative and the other boys share in the Lone Scout mentality and have a great time. Get off your butt and get to camp! A good challenge has been put in front of you, step up to the plate and meet it head on. Stosh

All you Indiana Jones affectianados out there need to remember, Jones wore a fedora hat which the expedition hat is NOT a copy of. The expedition hat is a copy of the Australian "cowboy" hat. Similar to the American cowboy hat but with a far lower crown. The campaign hat is great especially when worn correctly. The hat was originally created round. Now it is more oval to accommodate the more modern fashionable way to wear it. Being originally round meant that when put on an oval head, the front and back would naturally bend downward, similar to the way all full brimmed hats tend to do. Look at the "natural" look of a cowboy hat. However, everyone's insistence that the brim remain flat has made the hat a bit dorky in my estimation. My expedition hat is over 15 years old, it has one color on the top and another on the bottom, the Philmont brands decorate the brim, and it's badly stained. My campaign hat hasn't seen a flat brim since the day I bought it. As much as I am hard on hats, I am always amazed at how many compliments I get on them. I have been asked more than once how I was able to shape my hat that way and I tell them I didn't do anything, just let the hat become what it want's to become. Baseball caps used to have flat brims, now the manufacturers pre-bend them for everyone. Wearing them flat like the original is rather dorky. So why wear the campaign hat like a dork? Stosh

I'm 50+ years old, still camp in 100+ degree 100% humidity in the south in a heavy wool uniform doing extensive activity. I have been known to drink as much as 7-10 canteens of water a day, canteen capacity of 2.5 quarts. I stay on my feet, pace myself and learned ever trick in the book on survival in hot weather. Ever wear a hat full of ice cubes? Wrap the cube in a bandanna or you're going to have a major headache. Those lessons I pass on to my boys. I have also camped in sub zero winter making snow shelters and/or sleeping under the stars. I don't drink as much water, but I know how to adapt to the harsh environment of winter. The dryness of winter air takes as much moisture out of your body as the hot dry of the Southwest. Those lessons I pass on to the boys as well. If one were looking for excuses to shut down for a period of time, I would think the harshness of winter would take precedent over the heat of summer. I guess it just depends on what excuse is necessary to justify dropping the program for a certain period of time. Stosh

Because I have a small troop, only the SM and ASM's have direct contact with the boys. Parents are involved on the committee level only. If we need a parent to fulfill out 2 deep leadership, it is by invite only. On campouts, the SM and ASM's have all been screened and are required to keep out of the business of the boys unless there is a safety issue. This year at summer camp, we will have a SM and 2 ASM's That is more more than ideal. Last year while the boys did their thing at camp, the adults studied edible plant identification and I'm not sure what my one ASM's in charge of adult education is planning for this year. I'm looking forward to getting a run down on something fun, whatever it may be. Otherwise I have a 3 series book that I will read in my down time, which is pretty much all the time except when I'm kayaking and/or eating. Last year our methods were so "different" from the way everyone else was running their programs, that we were asked to put on some ad hoc symposiums for other leaders to get some insight into what we were getting done with our boys. We noticed that some of the processes and methods of how the camp changed for this coming year some of which seems to be influenced by what we provided. SM - Not a parent of any of the boys in the troop. ASM #1 - Parent, but previous SM in a different troop who has extensive boy-led, patrol-method expertise. ASM #2 - Not a parent of any of the boys in the troop. CC and some of the committee members are parents of the boys. 2 committee members are not parents of any of the boys in the troop. Stosh

I still stick with the pre-1970 scouting and my boys love it. A couple of my scouts even go so far as to wear the campaign hat/garrison cap and the old all green uniforms. They use the old red/black patrol flags and train under the Green Bar Bill curriculum. Yes the go through the "modern" training, but just to say they did it, but the real training that excites them is the "old stuff". When the historical MB's came out this year, they jumped all over them. I'm not going to change my approach because the boys wouldn't stand for it. Stosh

I wear the Expedition hat for sun/rain protection reasons but hated the round scouting pin that comes with it. The backs keep coming off and the exposed spikes don't feel good sticking in your forehead. I use the clasp backed scoutmaster pin from years ago and it works really nice. I really hate baseball type hats. They are totally impractical for being out for long periods of time. If I played baseball and was going to be out for only a couple of hours, fine, but all day doesn't work. Full brimmed hats are for all day usage, this is why cowboys didn't wear baseball caps. If one is worried about the leader patch on the hat, why not just sew a patch on yourself? It'll keep the sun off your bald spot the same way whether you sew the patch on or if national sells you a hat with it sewn on. Stosh

My boys spent last week's meeting trying to find enough weekends to fit in all the things they want to do this summer. Including Memorial Day to Labor Day there are 15 weekends available. With Summer Camp (2 weekends shot!) and National Jamboree (3 weekends shot!) 4th of July is out, as is Memorial Day and Labor day themselves! Our CO has a big weekend for their fundraiser we're expected to be at in August, Dang, 9 of the 15 weekends are gone before we even start! We're looking for a whitewater canoe weekend, a general campout, and a couple of hikes, maybe one on a bike and we have only 6 weekends to consider. The parents used to complain about too many activities going on in the troop, but I constantly let them know that their boy doesn't need to be at every single activity and the reason it's overbooked is because we know the boys are going to have to miss a few of them for family vacations and summer sports. I always use the example of what if we planned only summer camp and we just happened to pick the same weekend for that as you did for your family vacation. That means your boy misses out the whole summer for scout activities. I have always been involved with a 12 month program. When I went back after WB and picked up a Webelos den as part of my ticket, I even turned that into a 12 month program that the kids really enjoyed. I had some parents complain in the beginning, but I assured them that their boy didn't need to come to the meetings in the summer time, but I would be holding meetings for those boys that did want to come. After just a couple of weeks, ALL the boys were back to coming full-time. I'm thinking for the most part that 9-month programs are more for the adults than for the scouts. But, hey!, I registered for a year, my scouts registered for a year, and I'm under the impression that its up to me to see that they get what they paid for. Stosh

From Sesame Street on TV throughout their day, most kids are being entertained by outside organized activities. Schools, churches and family "time" all contribute to this process. Self-entertainment is not on the schedule..... Seriously, I don't think there are many kids today that can play solitary with a deck of cards. They only can do it if it's on the computer. If you don't believe me, hand them a deck of cards and ask them to shuffle them. Most can't. Parents today have, themselves, grown up in the be-entertained era and know what tricks to use to keep their kids from being bored. All the way from plopping them down in front of the TV to handing them a few bucks and send them off to the mall to hang out with their friends. They probably don't know any more about dealing with boredom than their kids do. Periodically I "plan out" time to be bored for my boys. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Last summer camp, I had an evening of boredom planned out that worked really well. I trumped up some kind of "punishment" for the boys and they were all told we were going to go out in the field next to camp and discuss the problem with a little "time out". We went out and just sat...being bored. Eventually the boys noticed the stars and began to look for satellites, planets, constellations, etc. It eventually took on a conversation as to why we hadn't done the astrology MB, etc. Then the conversation rambled on about a whole lot of things in the troop that they could be doing instead of being "bored" and/or wasting troop/patrol time. We never did get to the discussion on the "punishment". Sometimes being bored is the best thing in the world for everyone concerned. Stosh

Any camp that provides a movie night will not be on my list of potential camps for next year. Any camp that provides a mess hall is not on the list either. This is scout camp, if I wanted technology I'd go to computer or space camp. "Getting away" for the week should be just that! Stosh

When did the world crest come about? I don't remember that from my OD shirt of the early 60's. Some of the earlier shirts had the flag over the right pocket instead of the right sleeve. Pick a date, then find the scout book for that time period and match to that time period. My OD shirt is early '60's and has the appropriate SM patch, community and state strip on and has the flag over the pocket.

I think you're right. Scouting is what it is because it is not relevant to today's youth, that's what makes it an adventure. When asked what I was going to do when the electrical grid went down and all amenities came to a halt at 12:00 am 1/1/2000 (Y2K), I said was going to get up in the morning go out in the back yard, scrape away the snow, build a fire and put the coffee pot on and get my breakfast going in the Dutch oven. What relevance does scouting have in my life? NOTHING! And I'm getting for some more irrelevance this weekend. Kayak, tent, Dutch oven, all the toys that makes my life an adventure and not a 40-hour a week existence in front of a computer screen in a cubicle. That 40-hours generates enough money to put a roof over my head and food in my stomach and pay for the next adventure on the weekend! Once the adventure is gone, it's back to everyday life.... Youth of ever age has hungered for adventure. Today they have the choice to seek it in video experiences or pack up and get it in reality experiences. It's a sad day for all when we come to the realization that our youth cannot unplug themselves from their electronic reality long enough to experience real life. By the way, I use the methods and training I had 50 years ago in scouting and my boys soak it up like a sponge. I had one boy do the Hillcourt training and the NYLT. He said NYLT was a waste of time and money, but didn't realize it until he had taken the Hillcourt course. Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

At one time, the cemeteries were the nicest maintained areas of most communities and were the gathering place for picnics and other family activities. It has only been in recent generations that they have become a place of stoic morbidity. I had a boy do an eagle project on the military graves of a number of cemeteries in the area. He had to find the grave and see if there was a marker on it either family or military and whether it was in decent condition and/or needed cleaning, replacement, etc. The rest of the troop help on this project and basically it became a treasure hunt looking for these graves. The boys ran all over the place, screamed and yelled and had a great time finding these graves. They became engrossed with the project and got off task whenever they found a grave of particular interest, noting infant graves, really old graves, graves of veterans from the War of 1812 (No revolutionary vets) and/or elaborate family stones giving the history of certain individuals. More than one boy commented how neat and interesting it was to go to a cemetery, he had never had a chance to do it before. Because our town does not have a cemetery directly in town, the Memorial Day program is done at the local school ball field where crosses are put up and wreaths placed after the parade. So for sure, this may in fact have been the first time some had ever been to a cemetery. They were excited, fascinated, and impressed with their "first visit". What better tribute to those in the cemetery than to have people come and visit and be excited, fascinated and impressed with their visit. I hope that when the scouts come and visit me they laugh and joke about this old guy having spent most of his life being a Boy Scout maybe he didn't ever grow up. What better dash can one have? Come visit, walk on my grave, play and horse around, laugh and sit on the stone, lie in the grass, pick the flowers, and rest a while. It's okay, because you took the time to come and visit. Stosh

Hmmm, sorry, but the problem isn't the action, it's the consequences. When I assault someone, the problem isn't the action, it's the pain and suffering on the victim that is unfortunate side issue to some, but not me. Same for the drunk driver, the problem isn't the driving, it's the pain and suffering for the victim and/or family that is an unfortunate side issues, but not me. The reason the rules say not assaulting others and no drunk driving isn't to keep people from doing those things, but to protect the unfortunate victims it causes. To simply slap the boy on the wrist for hurting someone else isn't the issue. The issue is: he chose to inflict harm on another, now man up and take the consequences, your victim didn't have a choice. The one making the decisions is ultimately responsible and must be held accountable. Same for the drunk, he's responsible for the death or injury of others because of his choice, he's held responsible for it all from the key turn to the funeral. Stosh

I wear a hat all the time. Little balding and the sun is uncomfortable. Plastic lenses will not photo-change, so I no longer wear sun glasses and the brim is necessary. I hate a burned neck and ears so it's full brimmed whether I'm in scouts or not. I get a ton of compliments on my chapeaus.... Normally for formal occasions I wear the classic Montana Peak hat, otherwise I wear the expedition hat for most of the campouts, etc. I do have a cotton/mesh hat, but wear it sparingly and prefer the felt hats year-around. It's just what you get used to. Unless it is a Christian church, the hat stays on indoors. It's part of the uniform. Stosh

Early American boy scouts wore the Montana Peak hat with the creases front and back, while the non-American scouts wore the Montana Peak hats with the indentations front and back. So this is BSA. Early scouts wore their advancement on their hats, not uniform. I'm thinking pre-1920 BSA with the evidence showing. Stosh

Hmmm, I guess I've never put anything down on paper. Our troop has only three "rules" by which we operate and they are vague and open to a lot of interpretation and offers no recourse if problems arise. 1) Safety first. 2) Look and act like a scout. 3) Have fun. Rule #2 suffices for any and all disciplinary processes that come up on occasion. Looking like a scout means full uniform, clean and buttoned up, tucked in, and looking the way it is supposed to look. Acting like a scout encompasses the Oath and Law. Because nothing is written down, there's nothing to exactly measure against. If there is any room for interpreting a fraction of an inch here and there, the boys will find it. If left vague, my only comment would be, "I wonder if that falls into the category of not acting like a scout?" and let it go at that. Anything really serious kind of automatically shifts into Rule #1. If there's hazing or bullying going on, that shifts into Rule #3. Although they are all somewhat similar in degree, they seem to cover all the bases in our troop. Cell phones? We've lost several boys over the past couple of years due to homesickness and cell phones. Several boys regretted offering the help of a cell phone only to lose them from the troop. Now boys all leave their cell phones at home so they don't have to lend them out. IPods? Ever wonder why the SM waits until he sees ear buds in boys ears before making important announcements? It really sucks to miss out on things. Stosh

I went with wool, that's probably why the buttons are not removable. I got the full uniform, tossed the garrison cap and military buttons. Stosh

I got lucky and landed my 5 large buttons off of Ebay, but they are very scarce. I got them for $10+ shipping, but I would have gone to $100 if need be because of their rarity. I got mine from Schipperfabrik as well, but the fit leaves a bit to be desired. The sleeves are too short and the buttons are sewn, not removable. It's too late to make changes so I'll need to make modifications of my own. Not what I was expecting considering all the measurements they had to have before making it to specs, and the price tag that went with it. Stosh

My boys don't seem to be all that worked up about the ribbons and they are mostly filed away in the circular file. If the boys get a ribbon for a patrol competition that they feel good about, they put it on their patrol flag, but old ribbons obtained by former scouts just doesn't carry much freight with the current boys. Stosh

I'm with evmori on this one. This is assault. If a person inflicts enough harm on another person that it requires a trip to the hospital, it is not hazing, it's assault and should have had a police report written up on it for the insurance company. In my troop, the boy would not be doing any presentations on hazing, he'd be looking for another activity to fill his now vacant scout meeting night. The potential for inflicting harm on another scout is unacceptable in the troop. Stosh