Stosh

This past weekend, we were to serve cobbed corn at our local festival. The boys like to set up the dining fly so they can stand in the shade. I showed up an hour early and three boys were already there and as I walked on site, they asked me if I had keys to the trailer. They had made a call to one of the parents to bring them, (the QM forgot them) and I gave them my keys to expedite the process. They asked me to wait for the parent with the other keys and thank them. I then went off to wait and then I waited some more while they set up the fly and then I helped throughout the day as needed just like everyone else. It was a great feeling that these boys were already planning out the recovery for their dilemma even before the first adult step into the activity. This weekend is the one "family" event we have when we need some parents to help out with the project simply because it's such a large project for our CO. I have often been accused of not doing anything as the SM and the boys tend to be disorganized and sometimes mess up kinda bad. But this weekend, three different parents thanked me for all that I had done for their boys over this past year. They had seen some very positive results of responsibility and maturity in their boys from having had the opportunity to be in my troop. One of the parents even thanked me for not being like the adult-led program that competes with our troop for the Webelos boys. It was interesting to watch at the end of the event, all the adults went over, sat in the grass, ate corn and had a soda/water and watched the boys tear down the dining fly and put it back into the trailer without being told, helped or supervised. Every now and then, the boys will totally blow you away with what they are learning in scouting! My own real helicopter parent showed up, his boy did his 3 hour shift while the parent went off and didn't help, and he came and picked him up at the end of the shift and went home. The majority of the boys hung out at the corn tent for 2 full days of 10+ hours at a pop. No one told them they had to do more than just one shift a day. Stosh

It might be helpful to look at old military manuals for the "Manual of Arms". In this books (Civil War is the one I am most familiar with) they give exact step by step instruction to insure the safest handling of the weapon. For example, it is a long muzzle loading weapon. 1) LOAD: Take the gun off your shoulder, place the butt of the gun to the left of your left foot, gun resting along thigh, rammer facing you. Hold the gun in your left hand a couple of inches below the muzzle and with the right hand reach back to the cartridge box on your right side. 2) HANDLE CARTRIDGE: Take a paper cartridge out of the box and hold it up to your mouth, elbow as high as your mouth. Make sure the paper tab on the end of the cartridge is between your teeth. 3) TEAR CARTRIDGE: Bring down your hand and elbow in a sweeping motion tearing of the end of the cartridge with your teeth. Position the cartridge, open end up on the far side of the barrel next to the front site. Keep your hand to the side of the barrel. 4) CHARGE CARTRIDGE: Quickly bring your hand over the barrel, pouring the black powder down the barrel, shaking the last bit of powder out of the cartridge making sure the back of your right hand is facing you and away from the end of the barrel. Toss away the cartridge and with the right hand place it flat against the rammer. 5) DRAW RAMMER: Rotate the hand around until, with the fingers, push the rammer half way out. Rotate the hand around, thumb down and grasp the rammer at the half way point, rotate the rammer around and place the tulip just inside the barrel and hold it there at an angle so that your hand is not inline with the barrel. 6) RAM CARTRIDGE: Push the rammer into the barrel all the way to the bottom, if there was a minie ball, that gets inserted at Charge Cartridge, but we do not use projectiles in reenacting. 7) RETURN RAMMER: Remove the rammer half way, invert hand at the half-way point and pull it the rest of the way out, turn it over and place it back in the rammer pipes. Lower your left hand all the way down the gun, hold your hand flat against the rammer after it has been returned. 8) CAST ABOUT: Draw the gun straight up with the left hand, grab with the right and hold the gun forward at a 45-degree angle, barrel up, lock plate at waist level, bring the right foot back and position it at a 90-degree angle from the left. 9) PRIME: Remove a primer cap from the cap pouch, hold with thumb and index finger. Pull the hammer back with the ring and little finger of the right hand to half-cock. Using these fingers, flick off the old cap and replace a new one on the cone. 10) READY: Raise the gun with both hands, to shoulder height. Hold the gun straight up in the air and with the thumb of the right hand, pull the hammer to full cock. 11) AIM: Bring the gun barrel down to the firing position and put your finger into the trigger guard. 12) FIRE: Pull the trigger. Watch the barrel to make sure your gun went off. If not, hold that position, regardless of the next command, DO NOT MOVE. This is the signal to the safety officer your gun did not fire. Hold for 15 seconds. If the gun still does not fire (hang fire) bring the gun back to the PRIME position, and begin the procedure to re-cap the weapon. Go to the READY position and wait for everyone else go catch up to you. Fire a second time, making sure the gun goes off. If not, regardless of the next command, DO NOT MOVE. Wait another 15 seconds. Bring the gun to the straight up position and step behind the line for assistance from the safety officer. Anyone on the field that does not follow these exact instructions will find themselves sitting in the crowd watching the rest of the reenactment. Only when a review of these safety procedures is mastered will anyone be allowed on the field. Yes, not all units observe the manual of arms, and they have problems along the way. In the 10 years I was associated with the Venturing Crew we NEVER had a safety problem. Other units around us did, but we didn't because we stuck to the manual of arms precisely. A routine such as this could be adopted for any firing range so as to maximize the safety protocol expected by the instructor/range master. Any slight deviation of that protocol will mean the scouts becomes an observer rather than an participant immediately! Only after a complete and precise proof that the scout knows the protocol will he/she be able to return to the range. As Captain of an active unit, I am expected to know and make sure all 15-20 persons under my command follow all protocol precisely at all times. I have 2 other Sergeants that assist with this process on the field with me double checking the safety. If I were dealing with as few as one other, I would expect that person to perform a protocol exactly of loading and firing (especially hand guns) before I put any live ammunition in the hands of that person. I spent my first year of squirrel hunting with my dad when I was 10 years old with the gun in my hands and the single .22 bullet in my pocket. I might have felt a little like Barney Fife, but I've never even come close to shooting myself or anyone else in 40 years of handling guns. Stosh

And what about the parents that do it right? I had an experience where the parent did NOT interfere. I had a situation where the son of a former SM was not doing his job, relying on his father/son relationship to take advantage of the situation. Both boy and former SM were at a meeting and I called the boy on it. He stormed out of the meeting, the dad sat in the back quietly and said nothing. Boy stood out in the parking lot until dad came out and they went home. This happened twice more and the dad reacted the same way each time. To make a long story short, the boy is now one of my best ASM's. I have another parent who has a boy who has learning disabilities. She sits quietly in the back of the meetings and says nothing. The boy struggles over and over again and all she does is smile and waits for him to get done with the meeting. He's the only boy in the troop that has proven himself with a POR and done a good job, but he struggles every foot of the way, but he's come a long way! The boy I held back on his Eagle for six months is my other ASM's son. He never said a word about it to me. The boy is now an active Eagle JASM in the troop. Every time a parent interferes the boy suffers. I have seen the pattern repeat itself over and over again. Most of my parents are johnny-on-the-spot when I need someone to drive or help out, but otherwise they are non-existant when it comes to the boys. The boys of these parents are doing quite well. Some of my other parents are HC parents and those boys are really struggling with the boy-led concept of scouting. Stosh

Helicopter Parent = any adult that hovers over a youth that is desperately trying to grow up and thus stifles that development and growth. That growth and development will eventually occur, but it will take making the age of adulthood and a strong spine to counter it's affects. I have seen people in their 20's and 30's still suffering from the effects of such parents. It used to be that there were people at age 40 that still live at home. But they came back home to take care of their elderly parents, not because they couldn't take care of themselves. Stosh

So, how do these range/no range issues deal with boys that are shooting blanks? Do reenactor groups need a certified range master at an event? Stosh

Once Scouting began to be anti-Scouting, i.e. anti-military, anti-camping, management instead of leadership, it was remarkable how quickly the membership numbers declined and continued to decline. One would think that after 35+ years they would catch on to the trend and notice this problem. Alas, it hasn't yet happened. However, a few of the old skeletons in the BSA closet continue the tradition and provide a pretty good program for the boys despite the lack of support. Maybe this is why the scouts under the old emphasis tend to be a bit more aggressive in their leadership. My last two Eagle scouts: 1) As an adult, he continues to pursue the continuation of his Eagle project, going to meetings of various groups drumming up support for the expansion of his initial work. He is served as 3rd ASM at Jambo and is currently an ASM pursuing WB. The only thing in his foreseeable future that is going to disrupt this trend is his pursuit of acceptance into the Air Force Academy and active duty. 2) A scout that for years promoted the idea that all he wanted to get his Eagle at 14-15 and quit. He currently is 16 years old and a JASM still very active in the troop. Surely some of the old skeletons have something to offer. While the numbers may be down, I'm finding that those that do enter into Scouting, survive the Webelos/BSA transition and parental lack of support, do well, they are the cream of the crop in today's society of young men. Stosh

Eaglezilla? How about a ECOH with State Representative/Senators, military recruiter (one of the boys was going on into the military), mayor, high school representation, etc.,etc., etc. all invited and present and a fully catered reception... I have seen less hoopla at a council's annual Eagle Recognition Dinner. The sad part of the whole thing was the majority of Eagles being awarded were to boys who hadn't been involved for years in the troop, but who came back to get their Eagles at the last minute. Yeah, there are a few Eaglezillas out there. Stosh

Gee, all the troops at the Jamboree did the patrol-method approach to cooking. I didn't notice any problems... So far I have not seen any measurable benefits of the dining halls other than convenience to the adult leadership who find it difficult to monitor and supervise the patrol-method process of cooking. Of course if one is doing the troop-method approach, this must be quite a nightmare. It is a lot easier to just dump the kids in the mess hall and let someone else worry about getting them fed. Your mileage may vary. Stosh

discriminate    /v. dɪˈskrɪməˌneɪt; adj. dɪˈskrɪmənɪt/ Show Spelled [v. dih-skrim-uh-neyt; adj. dih-skrim-uh-nit] Show IPA verb, -nated, -nating, adjective verb (used without object) 1. to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit; show partiality: The new law discriminates against foreigners. He discriminates in favor of his relatives. 2. to note or observe a difference; distinguish accurately: to discriminate between things. verb (used with object) 3. to make or constitute a distinction in or between; differentiate: a mark that discriminates the original from the copy. 4. to note or distinguish as different: He can discriminate minute variations in tone. adjective 5. marked by discrimination; making or evidencing nice distinctions: discriminate people; discriminate judgments. To judge as being separate/distinctions is not a bad thing. Which of the 5 definitions are being used in this thread? To segregate, the act of separation are two entirely different subjects. A synonym for the word discriminate is to distinguish, i.e. judge differences. I discriminate/distinguish all the time, everyone does. Stosh

I'm hearing some other issues here as well.... Family and friends can't attend because the COH isn't convenient? Why are COH's locked down? We have one every 5th Monday in any month. If the boys want more (like after summer camp and all those MB's are waiting out there) we have another. We're up for a party at the drop of a hat. Grandma and Grandpa can't make it this weekend? No big deal, we'll have the COH when they can make it. IT'S FOR THE BOYS!!!! Let's try and keep that in mind! COH 3 weekends in a row? Sure, why not! Stosh

OGE, I have dropped out of the Venturing reenactment crew. Politics and personalities got in the way. The unit was infantry, not artillery and no safety certification is required to participate. As for the cavalry, (which by nature is the most dangerous on the field), no certification/limits are placed on these units as well. The horses must be veterinarian inspect for disease, etc. but the riders are like infantry. On the other hand the safest groups on the field are the artillery. They have a national certification school/training that they annually take to unsure the maximum safety standards on the field. More than once their attention to safety kept my people safe when they reacted improperly to my commands on the field. I'll trust an artilleryman on the field over anyone else and yet Venturing crew members cannot participate with them. (they can be artillery certified so that when they turn 21 and/or drop out of Venturing they can participate) Instead, they can do the following: 4 braces = 8 guns - yep 4 on the horse, 4 on the man, add a Sharp's carbine and a saber and put the whole thing on a horse and ride around as fast as you can. Now an idiot 30 year old might be able to pull it off, but an idiot 16 year old? That's another whole story. And for all the scouts out there that want to really have a great time, I have a side-by-side 10 gauge muzzle-loading shotgun. Perfectly acceptable on any BSA range! More Power! Let's hear it for testosterone! An 8 gauge is not allowed because it is considered a hand-cannon and thus is a large bore artillery piece. Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

Another curve ball. Can a married couple both be associated with the crew if one is under 21? i.e. Husband is 21, wife is 19. Stosh

Equating homosexual behavior with criminal behavior???? Criminal behavior is defined by society, not morality. While some societies prized their slaves, others kept them for their manual labor. Is slavery a sin? Nope, because when one country conquered another there was only two choices from which to deal with the vanquished. Make them slaves or kill them. Some countries who no longer allow slavery, don't seem to have much problem dealing with that choice no longer there. Hmmm, let me see.... Cambodia, Rowanda, Eastern Europe..... Nope, no slavery there any more. In other cultures homosexuality is a criminal act because their society doesn't distinguish. Simply changing the definition doesn't change the situation. Drinking isn't against the law... oh, for a while it was.... Oh, then it was again. Morality cannot be legislated. Stosh

Not all muzzleloaders are rifles. The muzzleloaders also tend to be single shot weapons. Yet scouts can shoot multiple shot shotguns which are of higher caliber than .22's. There's no end to questions one could raise about this policy. Imagine for a moment a Venturing scout can have a brace of 4 pistols while riding a horse around at full gallop wielding a 36" saber, but a Venturing scout who holds national safety certification from an artillery school, can't fire a large bore cannon. Go figure. Stosh

I don't see any difference between relationships between Crew members than those between leadership. Sure some adult leaders are married. Not a problem and if they want to sit together around the campfire and/or kiss good night, I can live with that. My fiance is not a registered leader, but does attend many of my scouting activities because she's an expert in forestry, nature and water sports. Because we have kept our relationship within the bounds of acceptable behavior, i.e. we don't have a glass of wine before dinner as we would at a non-scouting event, the boys have never had a problem with it. The boys have enjoyed having her along on outings and often look to her for guidance and advice on issues related to the current activity. They respect the relationship and never call for "shotgun" when she's along. To issue blanket statements and introduce by-law changes to accommodate intracrew dating is because not all young adults are aware of the acceptable norms of behavior at an event. This is quite alright. It's better to spell out expectations than to try and deal with them after-the-fact. Letting the leadership of the crew know that one is dating outside the activities of the crew is a nice heads-up for them, not so that they can keep an eagle-eye on you, but as a courtesy to everyone so as to not have a negative affect on the crew as exemplified in some of the earlier posts. Stosh Stosh

On the other hand, I find nothing right about homosexuality, either. The only thing that seems to be driving the bus seems to be trying to get everyone on board to agree that there's something right about it. Social acceptance of it does not make it right. If I was born a kleptomaniac or a pedophile by nature, and I did not act on those impulses the world would never know. However, if I could convince the world that these issues are socially acceptable, then I could steal and/or prey on children at will with no repercussion. I have no problem with people being a kleptomaniac or pedophile, or homosexual, but to act on those impulses is a problem for me and no matter how much social acceptance goes along with it, it remains unacceptable to me and my mind will not change. Yes I have people around me whom I can easily call friend. But I don't have to accept their homosexual behavior, their theft or their preying on children. To socially bend moral standards doesn't make it right. If a practicing alcoholic comes over to my house, has a beer and we chat away the afternoon, I don't have a problem with it, but if he comes over in a drunken stupor and pukes on my shoes, we're going to have a problem. I can sit in the pew with the non-practicing kleptomaniac, pedophile, alcoholic and homosexual and be at peace. Heck, I have problems related to unacceptable tendencies just like everyone else. But I chose not to act on them. Just because everyone's doing it doesn't make it right (social acceptance). People break the 10 Commandments every day, it doesn't make it right. Bending them doesn't make it right either. Stosh

It's been a long time since I've bow hunted, but I do remember that the easier # "pull" of a compound is for the hold. Once released the arrow leaves at the bow #'s. If I have a 15# recurve bow and and 30# compound with a 15# hold, just before I release the feel of the bows will be the same. However the impact on the target of the compound will be twice as much as that of the recurve at the same range. Of course the effective range of the compound will be better as well. While for hunting this is important to know, but what about the folks at the range at summer camp? Well, the targets will get twice the abuse and wear out quicker for one thing. And if the arrow glances off the top of the target, it will be traveling at a far greater speed and one will have to chase the arrows maybe twice as far. Putting the effective elevated range aim on a 50' target with a 15# bow is far more dramatic for the boys to understand than with a 30# compound. Learning the theory of shooting a bow can be done with either set-up. However, in a compact area, a 15# bow will do better, teach the same dynamics, and be a lot easier on the boy's arm when he gets string burn. More power may be useful for man-tools and automobiles, but for shooting sports, it has no advantage. I can learn to drive in a 4-banger Honda sedan as well as I can in a 457 CI, bored out, overhead cam, turbo charged,'67 Camero SS. Stosh

While I'm going to take flak for this: Isn't Eagle just another rank advancement? So be it the highest, but isn't the fanfare of celebration by the families and not the COH? Remember, just as many couples get divorced who were married at the courthouse as those who spent $25,000 on the event. Maybe it would be a good time to evaluate the Bridezilla attitude we have towards the Eagle rank. While we have moved the date for the COH to accommodate the family so that relatives and friends could travel, our COH this last time was unique in that while the one boy reached Eagle rank, his brother got Tenderfoot. Another brother (Life) was the MC. Another boy reached the rank of Eagle as well and the families hosted a VERY nice reception following. It was a great time for everyone, the boys got rank, one aged out the other is still working with the troop as he always had. Eaglezilla doesn't seem to ring as well as Bridezilla, but I'm sure the point is understandable. Stosh

Gee, I drove my FORD van 150,000 miles with very little problem other than it finally rusted out. That's normal for my part of the country where the state road crews take a kickback for salting the roads and rusting the cars. But.... my Ford truck was made in Canada..... What's with that? I'm thinking Toyota has assembly plants in America.... Buying the label isn't all that patriotic anymore. And by the way, 99% of all the electronic devices in the world are NOT made in America. Toss your cell phone, turn off the TV, throw away your radio! It's an un-American plot to take over your lives! We live in a global economic culture. Get used to it, it's not going to go away anytime soon. I'm still not ready to purchase items made in Vietnam, but that's just a personal issue. Stosh

Penalizing a scout for not showing because of school sports is just as offensive as the coach benching the boy for going to a camporee. Sounds like a couple of adults in divorce court. Let's punish the children because the parents can't get along. Makes sense to me. NOT! In my troop: Family, Church, School all take priority over Scouting. It used to be a tradition in my troop that the week that the Packers played on Monday night there was to be no scout meeting. I said I would be at the meeting whether the Packers played or not. Without a whimper, that tradition ceased to exist. Life is choices. I want my boys in Scouts because they choose to be. Because of this, they do "work it out" with many family, church and school calendars to attend scouting functions. Stosh

I like the idea that the ringer patrols are next camporee's staff. They have to plan, run and score all the competitions. 1) Either they are not going to win so they don't have to do it. 2) They will win only every other camporee. Too often we brag about being boy-led, but when the camporee rolls around, why are all the adult running the show? My boys often attend the camporees but take a pass on the competitions unless they look interesting. I mean, just how many times can burning a string be exciting? Worse case scenerio? All the older boys back off because they don't want to "win" the hassle of setting up next camporee competition. A NSP from a troop wins overall! Wow what a neat thing for the boys. Then they come back next camporee having done their advancement/training in preparation for the competition? A second major benefit! The older boys tire of this whole business and go back to just being regular patrols and the whole emphasis at having to win every award that comes along doesn't seem as important anymore. Stosh

You're going to get second-hand info on this, in that no adults were allowed to participate. Maybe some of our younger forum members would have some idea of what it was all about and pass it along to the rest of us old-folk. Stosh

Like all adults trying to run a boy-led program, I often times catch myself slipping into a more directive approach than I should. But, hey, it was the last day of a long Jambo, it was hot and I wasn't in my best mood. The PLs had worked their tails off getting all the boys packed up, tents down, area cleaned up, etc. The 4 adult leaders and 4 scout leaders were sitting by watching this all transpire. PL's were in charge of their patrols. Because it included my scouts, I was watching the one patrol. Well, after everyone else was done, of course there was still one tent left up, the PL's! Two of my boys started leaving camp and I asked were they were going. They said they were heading up to the bathroom. I gently reminded them that as a patrol their PL helped them, maybe the PL could use a little help. They took the hint and went back to help. The over-worked PL waved them off and said it wasn't necessary. The two boys again headed out and as they passed by, I asked them where they were going. They said they were heading to the bathroom. Deja Vu! I said what about your PL? They said he didn't want any help. I then said, I guess they are going to have to stand there and pee their pants because no one leaves until all the work is done. The deer-in-the-headlights look was precious and I could hear the other leaders snickering. The boys then looked at each other and then without a word, went back to the PL's tent and began taking off the rain fly. Given the right motivation, any boy can be encouraged to do his fair share. Stosh

Communications, coordination, etc. were very bad at certain times throughout the Jamboree. One day we would get a piece of information, the next day, it was contradicted 180-degrees. On MC, we were notified we were given a limited number of tickets for a certain time period to be handed out to our boys as the SM saw fit. I'm thinking we got 20 tickets for our 36 boys. We decided to first have all the OA guys go, then by merit. If the boys were not given a ticket, they could get in the stand-by line and try to get in that way. Those going early in the morning usually got in with no problems. I know of a few of the boys went early and stood in the stand-by line and got through multiple times. Sorry this information is day late and a dollar short. But as I said before while trying to put the best spin on it, communications really sucked. Stosh

And I suppose at a potporee they don't do any judging and have a series of unrelated activities? Stosh