Stosh

I used to work for NE IA Council back in the '70's. I was going to school in Dubuque. Welcome aboard! Stosh

Love you guys that still have their original mess kits. I have gone through at least a half dozen of them over the years. I stick with the el-cheapo aluminum pans, use low heat, and it keeps them in pretty good shape for some time. The wing nut is always a problem. The stainless el-primo pans tend to stick terribly and burn more than they cook. One of my ASM's came up with an old steel BSA mess kit, but wouldn't part with it even when I offered him $25 for it! Gotta find me one of those! I did purchase an old WWI steel mess kit just for cooking, comes with a divided plate and fry pan. Noting else. It's steel which is a real plus! It holds my silverware nicely and the handle is on a hinge which is nice. With my nalgene bottle, I can still measure out water, but nothing else. I just eyeball portions when I cook. Some meals turn out better than others. It's really sad that GrubMaster isn't a POR. This position could go a long way in educating the rest of the boys on the basics of simple cooking. My boys went on a backpack expedition last weekend, bought the flavor packet for spaghetti but no tomato paste. The sauce was rather thin to say the least. They also bought the wrong pancake mix and didn't have any eggs and/or oil. To top it off they dumped a whole package of powdered milk into the mac and cheese. These are FC scouts??!??! Nobody starved, but one has to wonder at times. I'm beginning to think that if it wasn't for foil dinners and hot dogs on a stick, most the the modern scouts would not eat on a high adventure trip where they had to leave the stoves and dutch ovens at home. If one really wants to find out how good some can get at individual cooking, go to a Civil War reenactment. Everyone there cooks for themselves which was normal for the CW soldier. Here guys turn out coffee, meats, eggs, onions, potatoes, carrots, fried apples, etc. all in a canteen half, tin cup, and a stick. Some of the more serious cooks do bring a small stamped steel fry pan. One of the big things about LNT is that one can still have a wood fire. Most boys like to build these big massive fires and scar half the neighborhood. Like the Indians used to say: "Indians build small fires to keep warm, white man builds big fire and keeps warm collecting wood." Stosh

After this weekend of kayak camping, the thought struck me that there are very few scouts anymore that can cook individually out of their mess kits. As a matter of fact, very few boys even realize that a mess kit can be used for cooking. Those that have them only use the fry pan for a plate and the cup for their beverage. I cooked a nice meal for 2 people this weekend using 2 mess kits on a wood fire. On my very first Boy Scout activity (I was still wearing my Cub Scout uniform), we hiked 5 miles out of town to a place in the woods. There we individually cooked a meal, cleaned up and hiked back into town. I'll always remember the hike because I got my mom to buy me a small steak. As I think back on the whole process, why was it that I even before I was in Boy Scouts I already knew how to cook in a mess kit? I had to hike, build a fire, cook a meal, clean up and head back. Can some of today's Eagle Scouts do that? Or would their Frisbee melt in the fire? We do a lot with Dutch oven, patrol cooking, maybe a backpack stove here and there on occasion, but how many boys can have a mess kit in their canoe and actually do a traditional shore lunch for themselves? Over the years I have awakened in the morning, gotten a fire started and done blueberry muffins in my mess kit. Yes, even a small cobbler can be done up nicely. Coffee? Yep, that can be made in a mess kit too. One of the requirements for T-2-1 expects the boy to make a meal for himself on a wood fire. How do troops do this? Or is it done utensil-less? Sure we did our stuff on a stick, but with one of the neatest pieces of Scout equipment out there, it begs the question: why not just use your mess kit? Anyone else out there still mess kit cook? Stosh

Love the comment evmori! I love it when someone thinks so far outside the box they can't see the box anymore. This question does beg the question: do single tank troops encourage troop-method over the patrol-method? Even if one doesn't use the total 300' measure, does a common cook area with multiple patrol seating really promote the patrol autonomy? I think I'd rather go the multiple 1# tanks and pay the extra $$'s if it means the boys are really doing the patrol-method thingy. Stosh

Once the adults get out of the way, those scouts can do some pretty extraordinary things! Keep up the good work, or should I say, keep up the good staying out of the way! Hardly a month goes by that the boys don't surprise me in some way or another. When my ADHD boy step up and said he wanted a try at doing the Popcorn drive this fall I was blown away. If he pulls off even a moderate success, it'll be fantastic! Only my autistic boy hasn't stepped up, but he still has time to find his niche. Once your boys know that the adults won't come in an veto ideas right and left, they'll start actually leading the troop into some pretty nice areas. A scout is Trustworthy, don't just assume that, rely on it! Stosh

It's interesting how everyone does it differently. The propane tank on most BBQ grills around here are 20# tanks. Instead of filling tanks by volume, they put the tank on the scale and fill to 20#'s. It does not "fill" the tank completely but leaves room for expansion, etc. I don't know all the logistics other than watching them fill the tanks using the scales. Remember they don't fill by pressure pounds, but by weight pounds. Stosh

Sign him up! Once the customer's through the door, half the sales pitch is done! Venturing is an excellent idea see how the gentleman is interested in the high adventure. Who knows, you might be doing this man a great service. Don't worry about the insurance. That's what it is there for!!!! It's kinda like flight insurance. You don't need to be a frequent flier to get the stuff! Stosh

The project was not my first time using Turk's head knots. It's not my last either, What I did (5 Turk's heads side by side) was a major project since it all had to be tight enough not to slip on the dowel. The next time I take on a similar project I'll still use the parachute cord because of it's durability, but I'll do a Turk's head knot on the top and bottom and French whip in between. This will help keep the French whip from always coming loose at the ends. It also saves me the hassle of doing 3 extra Turk's head knots. I like using the parachute cord because my walking stick is 6' of closet rod and that starts out quite large in circumference. Parachute cord doesn't add much to the circumference when tied in knots that tend to be somewhat thick even by themselves. Being parachute nylon, the grip is a wee bit dirtier but looks just like it did 13 years ago when I first put it on. It's been wet many, many times and yet doesn't seem to show any rotting around the edges as it would if it held water against the wood too long while drying. Being more of a tool than a true walking stick, when I'm on ice in the winter, for example I always reach out 4'-5' and strike the ice to test it's soundness. That constant jarring does not cause the grip to slip. Stosh

mn_scout hit the nail on the head. Using wood is the cheapest, but most difficult. Using charcoal is pricier, but easier. Using white gas is a bit pricier, but easier still. Using large canister propane is getting up there in cost, but no hassles with spilled fuel. Using small canister propane is very expensive, but is very easy on the boys. Notice the pattern here? The easier it is to use, the higher the price. Either figure it into the cost of the trip or take on a more "thrifty" attitude when it comes to making your purchases and planning your meals. My last kayak trip I had no stove, just a $1 butane lighter in my pocket. No cookware other than my mess kit. Had steak (fry pan of mess kit), instant mashed potatoes (boiler in mess kit), and baked beans (cooked directly in the fire) for supper. Boiled some water for clean up and I didn't use hardly anything in my butane lighter, should last me all year for $1. I never even considered taking a stove. There are also no burning bans on sandbars in my area at least. And I also menued it out that breakfasts and lunches would require no cooking. Your mileage may vary... Stosh

With every edition of the Handbook, it creates new headaches. Thanks for the clarification of what's vogue at this time. Kudu, I hope you realize that those rhetorical questions were dripping with sarcasm. I look at people driving tasks, not tasks driving people, so the requirements even though quite useless in some cases, are required for the boy to advance in Scouting. A "contract" only emphasizes how desperate one gets when the job/task doesn't get done. Yes, a boy can attain Eagle and never camp which is quite ridiculous, but if that boy is a great natural leader and yet never gets a chance at a POR his Scouting career is jeopardized as well. I have boys doing "jobs" normally assigned to the adult leadership. There's no such thing as a POR for organizing a camporee, or summer camp, or high-adventure trip, or even a day hike, let alone organizing the annual Popcorn fundraiser, or a boy that's not the quartermaster, organize and pull off a nice Christmas wreath sales so he and his patrol members can have new equipment isn't something that isn't available to many aspiring leaders. Only the adults get to really lead. I don't think these things should be reserved for adults only and any boy wishing to step up and take point on these issues shouldn't have his scouting career thrown into jeopardy because he didn't have a POR patch on his sleeve at the time. Otherwise, for rank advancement, this type of leadership would be considered a waste of time. When a boy lines up a camporee for example, he reviews the rank advancement of all boys in the troop, incorporating the NSP to come up with the menus so they can attain rank fulfillment, he instructs the NSP to make sure they have the right equipment and are properly packed for the event, maybe he has the older boys check out the tents to make sure they are ready for the event, organizes a patrol to head to the store and purchase the menu items the NSP has identified, etc. Each one of these things entails partial POR responsibilities, maybe as a TG or a QM or an Instructor or maybe some SPL chores as he has the different patrols taking different reponsibilities, or even as an ad hoc PL for the NSP, as he makes troop prep for the camporee. Because he has no "official" patch on his shirt, he gets no credit for any of his leadership. To often POR's measure task accomplishments as reflective of the POR contract, but does nothing to identify and measure real leadership. Quartermaster will do the following over the course of the next 6 months: 1) Inventory all the equipment. 2) Make repairs on all equipment that can be done. 3) Identify equipment that needs to be replaced and report to the SM. 4) Store all equipment in the storage closet, making sure the closet is clean and dry. 5) etc. Every step of the contract requires the scout to FOLLOW, not LEAD! Where are the skills of problem solving, thinking on your feet, helping others, inspiring the boys to do better????? Nothing there in the QM POR has much to do with leadership, only responsibility. Even the word smacks of a lack of leadership - response-ability. People who respond are followers, not leaders. Whenever our troop is faced with some activity or task, I always ask the question, "Who's going to be taking the lead on this one?" Any boy in the troop can step up and give it their best shot. There is never a contract associated with it. When all is said and done, the boy knows where he has succeeded and where he has fallen short. A SM conference will help him sort it all out so he can improve next time he steps up. Because this process works so well for our troop, the vast majority of the boys do not wear POR on their sleeves. Stosh

I started out with a long strand of parachute cord and made sufficient Turk's heads. However, as I worked out the slack, I ended up with about 50' of extra cord I thought about cutting off. I figured it might come in handy so I French whipped it on to the walking stick. One of my ASM's took the easy way out and did his whole handle with the French whip. One of my major problems with my setup is that I actually tied all 5 Turk's heads onto my 6' closet rod walking stick which I had varnished. That slippery surface was the challenge. The Turk's heads needed to be extremely tight to keep from slipping. That was the challenge and to get the knots next to each other so it looked like one continuous handle. To tie a French whip handle 12" long will probably take you less than 10 minutes to do. It'll take a wee bit longer with the Turk's head. Stosh

"Jblake wrote: When I was WDL, I got my WebI boys in September, met weekly, and all the boys had a blast. They all earned their AOL at the following February Blue/Gold and now the problem was they were 9-10 year olds with the AOL on their shirts. What do you do? Keep doing what you're doing, the boys were having a great time. Because they didn't have any more requirements to do, that summer we went out and did camping and all the neat stuff that they would be doing in Boy Scouts in the next few months. Then they turned into WebII's (September of the second year). Already had the AOL on their shirt, did some fun activities in the fall (guest at BS activities, etc.) and looked for troops to join. I'm wondering how you did that. Webelos can't earn AOL until they've been 10 yrs old or have finished the 4th grade for 6 months. Unless your Webs were already starting the 5th grade or were already 10, they couldn't earn their AOL in February. Here is the first requirement of AOL: Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge." It's easy! Earning it and getting to officially wear it on your shirt are two entirely different things. Okay, a boy has to be in the Webelos program X amount of months.... So if he does all the requirements except for sitting around waiting for X amount of months, how is this any different than earning the award and then sitting around for 2 months and the Blue/Gold to get his patch? If packs do the waiting game, well, so does council/national. If the boy has done all the work and only needs to wait until he's out of a grade or reaches a certain birthday, how is this any different than the boy has completed his requirements, and he's chomping at the bit to move on, why should packs, councils, parents, or national dictate to him he has to sit around and wait.... To the boy does it make any difference who's making him wait? I don't think so! When I was WDL the boys had to wait, but not because the den was behind, or they were behind, but because someone thought that waiting would be a good thing for these boys. I spent a whole year working with these boys, having fun, doing neat things and it was all for one reason WE HAD TO WAIT! Might as well have some fun while we WAITED! So while we WAITED we did Boy Scout stuff, did TenderFoot requirements, even some Second Class stuff just for fun, while we WAITED. Then we went on hikes, did campouts, etc. while we WAITED! This was a few years ago before all the electronic Big Brother from National and I submitted the AOL request well before it was appropriate, but it went through and the boys got to wear their AOL patches anyway. This was 20 years go. Stosh

I use dual fuel, my camp stove will run on both white gas and propane. 20# in car camp setup and white gas when the boys don't want to haul the 20# into the woods. White gas is still far more economical than propane. Stosh

Welcome! Cheese Head here. Stick around, lots of good stuff from both sides of the fence! Lots of lively debate and pretty civil 99.99999% of the time. The other .00001% of the time is like coming off of 12 days at Philmont during the hottest summer on record. Lots of good people on the forum, even those that disagree with me, but all are dedicated and passionate people with Scouting as a high priority in their lives. If that's you, you'll fit in nicely! Stosh

I'm kinda fond of "Leadership Theory". But then I'm kind of a loose cannon when it comes to my boys. Kudu: does the planning and getting their buddies to Summer Camp, going on week-long hikes set up by the boys and such fit into what you call leadership or should we be doing more with POR's and having boys wear patches? Qualify to take my Patrol hiking and camping (Patrol Leader's Handbook, 1967, page 12). If the boys want to take canoes out does that count? Does backpacking count as hiking? If different boys are taking lead on different outings, does that mean one of them has to be an elected Patrol Leader? Can a patrol leader be elected weekly or does he have to sit around for 6 months before someone else can wear the patch? If a boy takes point on the Popcorn drive this fall, is that too much management? If one boy is getting the group ready for spring camporee is he the PL, what about the other boy that is working on getting the group ready for summer camp at the same time, can there be two boys getting PL credit at the same time when there is only enough boys for one patrol? (I surely hope everyone feels these questions are really stupid!) Love the way the program used to work! By the way, it still does, at least in my troop. When it comes to our annual boy leadership training, my boys always opt for the Green Bar Bill material and then the TLT program. They have specifically said they want the TLT program so they can wear the "Trained" patch, but the other "stuff" is what they really want. One of the biggest problems with a boy-led program is that once everyone catches on, one way or another they all shine as leaders and it makes it very disconcerting to try and give everyone leadership credit using POR's. Out of my 9 boys, only one (austistic) hasn't taken the reins on some project and followed through and served as PL for that activity...including my TF scout. (Caution: the chaos this generates will totally scare most adults!) My boys quit scouting for two reasons: 1) they aren't interested in doing any work for their buddies or 2) their parents put them into troops where there is more adult structure that makes sense to them. I don't know if I'm following Kudu's principles or not, but at least they make a lot more sense to my boys than the other stuff coming out of BSA designed for them. At this past weekend's backpack outing, my ad hoc PL told the adult team that was with them that this campsite is for them. He then took the patrol off out of sight and there they set up their campsite. I don't know if he counted out 300' or not. The one thing I do know, if the troop is truly boy-led, they more naturally seem to evolve into what Kudu and GBBB seem to identify as Scouting. Stosh

At jambo I wore my old uniforms because they were more comfortable than the t-shirts that the contingent had. They were heavier materials. The old uniforms were like dress shirt material and were very comfortable in the hot weather. For a long time my boys all wore BSA t-shirts when doing activities outside, now most of them stay in the uniform because it's more comfortable. A couple of really hot days and the boys figured it out quickly. At summer camp most of them now wear the uniform rather than t-shirts. On the really hot days, they don't like to wear the necker. That is until I told them to keep the neckers wet throughout the day. Now that problem has been solved too. Stosh

Calico: The projects for POR fulfillment is only for Star and Eagle. For Life one has to adhere to one of the listed POR's. I presently have a Star scout who lined up Summer Camp and then stood in for a week as acting SPL, totally on his own. As a matter of fact, I didn't even ask him to do it, his older brother did it the year before and he just took over the project on his own. So he gets credit for 1 week of SPL. He has done QM tasks by cleaning out the scout trailer and inventorying all the equipment. Add on maybe 5 days of credit for QM. He did this with the help of one of his buddies. The only involvement I had was providing the keys to the trailer when he asked for them. He organized this past week's backpack outing in northern Wisconsin but had one of his buddies do acting PL to give him some experience at it. No credit for this one, because it usually means an adult does this for the average troop. And if one really wanted to get 100% technical about this outing it was not "approved" by the SM. When I was notified it was going to be happening, half the trip had already been planned out, menus, gear, location, campsite, hiking trail, etc. etc. A registered ASM and his wife went along as the 2-deep adult leadership. Okay, add it up? 2 weeks worth of POR credit at best. All this and what POR patch do you put on him to get him credit for 6 months of POR for his Life rank???? or ... what 6 months of effort should be used? all of it? part of it? This is definitely a square peg/round hold issue! When this boy sits down with me for the SM conference for Life rank, I'm going to simply ask him what he has to brag about when it comes to taking the lead and showing initiative in the troop. I'm figuring I'm going to have to cut him off after 15 minutes so we can move on to the other requirements needed to be covered. I have another FC scout that announced a couple of weeks ago that he is taking point on the Popcorn Sales this fall. He wanted to know if he could have a ride to the kick-off meeting so he can get all the relevant information. He got up at the court of honor last night and announced to the parents that this year won't be a hit-or-miss approach to popcorn sales, but that there will be an organized canvassing of neighborhoods to maximize the profits for the troop and boys. He even had ideas on how the money would be used to purchase new tents for the troop. Not bad for a boy who has ADHD... So, what POR does he wear? Fortunately I can slip him in under Star special projects on this one. Next rank?? We'll cross that bridge when we get there... Stosh

20-25 boys in the class???? Professionally trained teachers can handle this, but not 14-15 year-old scouts. The reason one has Instructors is that they are there to teach skills, Patrol Leaders are there to keep their boys organized. Their primary tasks are not the same. A good PL will bring in Instructors and/or recruit up good Instructors to assist them in having good lessons for his patrol members. I have had some excellent PL's that are terrible Instructors and excellent Instructors that don't do very well as a PL. My SPL is primarily the best Instructor of PL's. What good is he if he can't train up quality PL's, after all he has the experience, but he needs to pass it on to the next guy. While it may be "adding to the requirements", whenever I have the boy demonstrate how well they can tie a knot for example, I ways say, "Teach me how to tie the knot." This way the boy not only has to be able tie the knot, but be able to explain to me as he is doing it. This process assists the boy in retaining the knowledge better than just tying the knot and walking away. If I have a PL who is trying to get his patrol to set up camp, he can run around and set up all the new boys' tents, or he can teach them how to set up the tents. Of course he can help one boy set up the tent and then have that boy teach the others. All in all, the domino effect of teaching needs to be implemented or one is going to have the problem mentioned earlier that there is a lack of good instructors. All the boys, in my book, are taught to be instructors of the skill, not just demonstrate and forget. I had one pleasant experience in that I had a new instructor that was taught using my principles of teaching and he taught tying a square knot to a new scout. When the new scout came to me to demonstrate he knew how to tie the knot so it could be signed off, he started out: "Hi, my name is ________ and I'm here to teach you how to tie a square knot." They had me pegged, but the boy was prepared, practically gave a verbatim "lesson" and passed with flying colors. I'm thinking this "smart alec" is going to be a great Instructor some day very soon. I'm never in want of an Instructor. Stosh

Neckers weren't worn for the first 20 years of Scouting, but became it's trademark after that. No matter where in the world you travel, when you see some kid wearing a necker the first thing you think of is Scouts. 99% of the time you're right even if they are wearing civies for everything else. I wore a 1910 uniform at the Jamboree but I cheated and wore a 1937 Jamboree necker with it just to say I have a necker that was worn at both. The '37 is a square and lightweight and a pleasure to wear. Heck, when wearing a tunic collared wool uniform, I hardly noticed the necker at all! I recent years I don't wear a necker that often because I'm 6' and having a necker that just barely goes around my neck looks pretty stupid. I wear the tie instead, so it's not an issue of having an open collar. If a 36" square necker ever came back into vogue I'd wear it all the time. It's a lot easier to slip on a woggle than it is to tie a tie. By the way... I HATE neckers under collars, they always looked jammed up, crooked and never lay nicely. Stosh

To a certain degree I really agree with Calico Penn. There has to be some structure to the process so it doesn't go off on a tangent and get so watered down it is no longer relevant. But then I kinda agree with Beavah in that no every square peg is going to fit the round holes. I tend to focus on the concept of what the requirement is trying to accomplish, provide a scout the opportunity to take lead on some task of responsibility. To a degree, without Calico's emphasis, without being spelled out a bit, it could get out of hand. Well, if a boy wishes to invest his time and talents in organizing a couple of service projects, maybe takes the lead on Scouting for Food, and says he wants to organize this year's Popcorn Drive. What do you tell him? These are not good positions to demonstrate one's leadership???? Most Eagle projects fall into this kind of leadership demonstrations, but there is no POR for such learning opportunities~! Now what do you do? Give the boy a patch and have him do something else? I had two different boys line up our summer camp experience the past couple of summers. No adults were involved. The first boy, picked the camp, organized the schedule, registered the troop, got all the boys signed up for MB's, ordered the camp equipment we would need from the camp, and lined up drivers. Most of this is usually done by an adult in most troops, so again there is no POR for this and the boy wasted about 9 months of POR work for nothing? I don't think so! My "bugler" is a boy that wants to try and learn the bugle. Okay, practice and when you think you're ready, let's have a concert. So far he hasn't done the practicing and shows no more interest because it was more difficult than it sounded at first. Should I wait 6 months and give him credit anyway? While I'm not a fan of bending the rules so far one can no longer recognize which one it is, but when one has boys serious pursuing leadership and is excited about it, there isn't always a POR position for him. I like the Star requirement where the SM can give the boy a project to show leadership. That's a no-brainer and my boys love it and often do far more work for that than they would for some of the other POR's. If I could create a new POR it would be "ProjectMaster". Demonstrate leadership in a series of projects designed to organize, inspire and accomplish service projects for your troop and or community. Too many Eagle candidates have been PL's, SPL's, TG's, etc. but they can not organize a simple service project for their Eagle requirement because they have never done it before! Yet in my troop my newest scout (Tenderfoot) found a park that needed to be cleaned up, picked a date for a park clean up project, made up the sign-up sheets, got the equipment together and we all headed to the park for a fun day cleaning it up. It might not have been to the scope of an Eagle project, but he got one big lesson that will someday give him a heads-up on his Eagle project. If that same boy was to do this for his Life rank, it would not have counted one bit, could have tweaked it a bit for Star (special project), but Leadership is leadership, and sitting around with a patch on your shirt doesn't do it for the boys of my troop. There's no POR for GrubMaster, there's no POR for ActivityMaster, there's no POR for ServiceProjectMaster, so they don't count, they're all square holes. But WebMaster, Historian, Librarians all can get credit. How does one show leadership by being a WebMaster? They can do that by sitting home in their bedroom and knock out a web site in an evening. I have 3 boys that within the past month updated our website by posting activities, calendars, and AAR reports on past activities including pictures. So, how many WebMasters do I have? My QM posted a list of equipment each boy should bring for the last backpack outing. Is that a QM job or a WebMaster job? My JASM put the annual calendar on the Website, but he's an Eagle, so none of it counted.... I'll be the first to scream if they ever took out the POR requirement, but it truly saddens me when I see some of my boys doing 110% on leadership in the troop and not getting any credit/recognition for it other than a "Thanks-a-bunch" and a pat on the back. Is it any wonder they drop out eventually? Stosh

First of all, NEVER try to teach 100 scouts at the same time! Even I can't do that! Teach by patrol (i.e. patrol-method) Most boys cannot handle more than 7-8 boys at one time in an activity and there's no reason to hold big lecture style of classes, anyway. Everyone is running around looking for POR responsibilities, get multiple Instructors! If you have 3-4 NSP's then have your Instructors rotate amongst the patrols repeating their lesson for each patrol. I don't use the EDGE method, I use the KISS method. All my instructors teach using the same lesson plan format. 1) Get up in front of the group and introduce yourself even if they already know you. This at least gets their attention and lets them know you are ready to begin. 2) Tell them what you will be teaching them in the lesson. A little heads up may indeed hold their focus for a minute or so to see if you follow through with what you said you were going to teach. 3) Teach them the processes. This should take no more than 5 minutes!!!! 4) Tell them what you have told them. A quick review to emphasize the process. 5) Have them demonstrate and/or re-teach the lesson to their buddies, then switch. 6) Thank them for their patience and attentiveness. My boys seem to get the most mileage out of this process. It's not complicated and the #3 step shouldn't take but 5 minutes, maximum, but is the most important part of teaching. The rest of the "time" is pretty much hands on, but they are not doing it for themselves, when done for a buddy, their attention is more apt to stay on task. The Instructor only moves around amongst the pairs of teaching boys and gives pointers/review as necessary. The boys however, after being "taught" now can take ownership of the process and become involved. The Instructor can also evaluate the boys who might become the next generation of Instructors! Stosh

Entry from World dictionary Woggle noun a loop or ring of leather or cord through which the ends of a Scout's neckerchief are threaded Origin: 1930's: of unknown origin A Turk's head knot can be used as a woggle. The official BSA necker slide is representative of a 4 stranded Turk's head knot. The WB necker slide is a 2 stranded Turk's head knot. I use this knot for a woggle all the time. However, I have a series of 5 woggles on my walking stick I use as a hand grip. The original Turk's head knots were used to cover wooden railings on ships. This allowed the smooth wood to have traction when gripped. I wouldn't recommend this to anyone in that in order to get the parachute cord knot tight enough to not slip it took me about 2 month' time with a needle nose pliers. It was a once-in-a-lifetime project. Stosh

I cringe every time I hear this: The scout has to wait _________... (fill in the blank) This is not proper. The boy earned the award, he should be wearing the patch. When I was WDL, I got my WebI boys in September, met weekly, and all the boys had a blast. They all earned their AOL at the following February Blue/Gold and now the problem was they were 9-10 year olds with the AOL on their shirts. What do you do? Keep doing what you're doing, the boys were having a great time. Because they didn't have any more requirements to do, that summer we went out and did camping and all the neat stuff that they would be doing in Boy Scouts in the next few months. Then they turned into WebII's (September of the second year). Already had the AOL on their shirt, did some fun activities in the fall (guest at BS activities, etc.) and looked for troops to join. A lot of people were very concerned that these boys were doing BS type activities and when they got to the troop they would be "bored". On the contrary, as "experienced as these boys were they all earned Tenderfoot 1 month after crossing over, and were all FC well within the first year. And by the way were they bored? Nope, 6 of the 8 Eagled. At one of the boy's Eagle Ceremony, one boy came up to me and thanked me personally for all I had done and pointed out that over the past 9 years, only his dad had spent more time helping him grow up than I had... (This coming from a boy that lost fire building competition his first year of WebI even though he had built a perfect fire lay. He sat there with the matches in his hand staring at his teepee fire lay, crying. I asked him why he didn't start his fire, he tearfully said, "My mom doesn't let me play with matches!") I had to teach him how to use a matchbook! Don't wait to get these boys into and onto their next big adventure! The more you hold them back, the more damage you do! Stosh Addendum: This process always reminds me of the boy that earns Eagle and never gets a chance to wear the rank patch. We do the same stupid thing with AOL. He earns it and then crosses over to BS! It's almost like it's a BS award, not an award to wear on your CS shirt! Earn it, wear it, it looks best on a CUB SCOUT shirt!(This message has been edited by jblake47)

Like computers, the first question one must ask what are you going to be using it for, and what is the experience level of the users. I own two canoes, aluminum, old and beat up pretty bad. I bought them both from a canoe rental place so they were pretty used up by the time I got them. That was 15 years ago. They look pretty much the same at first glance. However, one canoe is rated with a load capacity of 350#'s and the other 750#'s. Both have keels and do well on lakes. I have taken them down whitewater rivers, thus the beat up look to them. Neither of them tip over easily because they tend to be flat bottomed and wide. Terrible for lake canoeing because they are slow, there is a lot of hull in the water causing friction. The troop I was formerly with had v-hulled canoes carried about 300#'s of load but were very tippy. I can stand in my canoes, but wouldn't even attempt to stand in the narrower v-hull canoe. For speed crossing a lake the v-hull is a lot easier. Plastic of some sort is good for whitewater rivers, but none of them have keels that I know of. They buckle and bend easily because of this. Not a big deal unless they are heavily loaded. My aluminums need a duct tape patch every time I go anywhere because rocks over the years have worn off the rivet heads leaving nice little holes in the bottom. I tried to patch them, but the patches don't last any longer than duct tape. If you wrap an aluminum around a rock, you can pretty much kiss it goodbye. A plastic, if you can get it off the obstacle, should pop back into shape, but may need new wood/metal trim on the edges. Salvageable at least. One more thing to consider is the height of the sides. Remember that the closer you get to the load limit, the deeper the canoe rides in the water. Empty, you might have 12"-14" from the edge to the water. Heavily loaded, that might go down to about 3" clearance. Not a problem on a quiet lake, but if the wind picks up, one can sink pretty quickly by taking on water. Some sort of waterproof cover is needed on a heavily loaded canoe to minimize the water getting in over the sides. I've never messed with Kevlar or fiberglass in that I do whitewater and I wouldn't take either on a rocky bottomed river. I don't know how sturdy these canoes would be under a heavy load either. My kayak is plastic and I use it on lakes and whitewater rivers all the time with no problems. My kayak partner uses a fiberglass on sandy bottomed rivers and lakes. She has a plastic for whitewater. Her fiberglass is a lot lighter, is 18" shorter and carries about half the gear I can. Her plastic carries no extra gear of any significance. Unfortunately there is no one canoe that does it all. Evaluate your usage and go from there. It will restrict your activities, but maybe start out with some stable aluminums for lake, slow rivers, or maybe some mild whitewater and once these boys get good at it, then look into investing on some plastics for heavier whitewater. For some of the older boys, switch over to plastic kayaks for some really heavy whitewater fun. If you have multiple experienced boys, you are not going to find just one canoe that fits all their needs. In any of these issues, I would suggest having the boys rent the canoe and try them out to see if that's what they want before they purchase. Then as they mature in water activities, rent the next challenge and purchase and for the high end boys, maybe they will be satisfied with just renting if they are going to take only one big whitewater trip a year. Get the boys involved in the process, they're the ones that are going to have to use the equipment. Your mileage may vary.... Stosh

My first impression with a "contract" is that it is adding to the requirements by spelling out in precise terms what needs to be done. Often times this entails the minimum requirements and may in fact stifle some of the more creative boys. I train all my POR positions and spell out expectations to ALL THE BOYS! They then have the opportunity to work on any of them. We are a small troop with only one patrol currently, down from two from a year ago. Every boy has a chance to step up and take any POR they wish. I have one boy learning bugle, another two vying for PL, a boy doing Chaplain's Aide, and another putting together lessons to fulfill the Instructor's POR. My JASM is the only one that wears a JASM patch and doesn't need any POR because he is Eagle already. The Chaplain's Aid wears the POR patch because he's been doing the job for over a year now. I had one boy line up all the logistics for summer camp this summer and stood in for the troop SPL as needed for the camp program. I have another boy that is stepping up and will run the popcorn drive this fall. He will be attending the Roundtable this month to get the relevant information that normally the adult would get. I have another boy who wants to be Historian but doesn't do anything. Every time we have a boy ask for his requirements to be signed off for POR in the SM conference I sit and listen to him list off all the stuff he's done to earn it. If he thinks there's enough there to get him through the scrutiny of the BOR, the I sign it off. Without "retesting", I do know the BOR always asks what was the fun part and the challenging part of their leadership opportunities (aka POR) over the past 6 months. If the boy has nothing to say, he's got a problem. My committee knows that due to the size of the troop that no boy can fulfill any POR full-time and have much to offer. Instead my boys, being cross-trained in multiple POR's generally take a conglomerate of activities of leadership and present that to the committee. For example: 1) I organized a one-day park cleanup as a service project. 2) I taught the younger boys 4 lessons on first aid. 3) I took over at a campout at the last minute because the boy that organized it and was going to be the PL for the weekend got sick and couldn't come. 4) I organized our participation in the Scouting for Food drive. Now, none of these alone can fulfill 6 months of POR without a lot of sitting around in between. But combining them all, shows a boy that is active, does a lot of work, and deserves credit for showing leadership. As far as which patch to give him? I dunno, give him Instructor for doing the 4 lessons on first aid. Maybe Troop Guide because of all the various work he does. Maybe just leave the patch off and let him do his leadership thing. A boy that signs up for Instructor and does 4 lessons in 6 months might be a bit weak on fulfilling the leadership thingy, but it sure beats putting a patch on his shirt and then have him occasionally teach a class or two and get credit for some "contract" he signed. Your mileage may vary, Stosh