Stosh

I wish they would have a "refresher" program for the already trained adults in the troop. I would rather have a good refresher with experienced SM's in the class than being the only participant with 20 years of experience sitting in with a dozen newbies who just bought a new tent and want to try it out. I'm thinking National didn't really think this through very well. They are missing a great opportunity for the veteran leaders to take the next step and cover their "training" all at the same time. I wouldn't mind a required refresher using Roundtables, U of Scouting, etc. to qualify continuing ed credits for the leadership. I'm all in favor of trained leadership, just take the opportunity to train them correctly. Just this past week I did the on-line fast-start for unit commissioners. The district needs some help in this area and even with 20 years experience as SM/ASM I want to know exactly what is expected of me because I've never met a real UC yet. Stosh

The leash hook with the spring loaded slide that holds them onto a dog collar. You can get them reasonably cheap at any hardware store. Get the large hooks that can hold two of the grommets at the same time and will save time in a thunder storm of trying to lace all the grommets together with rope. Stosh

SMJoe, Being new to the forum, you need to be aware that some of us more "experienced" scouters can't handle being referred to in AARP terms. We see ourselves as just experienced youth. If you don't understand how that works, just ask our spouses who will be quick to remind you that we haven't yet grown up. Welcome to the forum, newbies, rookies, and youngsters are always welcome! Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

When this gentleman is on a Venturing activity he is youth. When he is on a Troop activity he is an adult. A boy can be registered as a venture crew member (youth) and an ASM in a troop (adult) at the same time. For his protection, he had better take YPT and thoroughly know it's implications. If something goes hay-wire and he gets accused of something by his buddies, his scouting career could be over before it starts. If he is registered in a troop as ASM and goes on a venturing activity he cannot be counted as an adult for two-deep leadership either. The two programs are totally separate. I don't know what to advise if a crew and troop were to hold a joint activity. I would think it could be a really sticky wicket. If it's an over-nighter, the tent-mate would determine the arrangement. I wouldn't buddy up with any scouts in a situation like that. Stosh

For all those out there that think the canvas wall tents are too hot, I keep my walls and doors rolled up unless a thunder storm rolls through. In Wisconsin we can get a week of 90+ weather with high humidity which makes the wall tents excellent for the job. Instead of trying to lace the corners in a hurry, I have a bag of dog clips that work just fine holding the walls to the doors, go on quickly and hold in high winds. If one doesn't have ties for the walls, they can also be used to pull the walls up inside the tent held with a bit of twine to ridge pole. If the weather turns bad, cut the ropes, clip from the inside and you don't need to go outside and get wet. I always think of my wall tent as a mini-fly with storm shields on the 4 sides. When I was a kid in scouts, we had a patrol wall tent, bigger than the camp wall tents where the whole patrol slept in the same tent. The rolling up of the walls was standard procedure. As far as bugs, there's always netting. I carry netting and rubberized blanket whenever I meadow crash. No bugs and if it decides to rain, just roll up in the blanket. The rubberized blanket is a wee bit heavy, but the netting is nothing for weight. Stosh

"Return to post" sounds better than "Retreat". Just my personal preference. Your mileage may vary. Stosh

"To have the ability to continue in scouting is great and shows the boys scouting is still cool when you are old." Excuse me?!! ...when you are old? Shouldn't it be when you are older? Stosh

"I have never seen the "single file" formation. Our boys, and every other troop I know stands in rank at flags." At our council camp the flag is surrounded in a semi circle of posts about 10' apart with the names of all the campsites on them. Each troop is expected to have the SPL stand at their post with their troops lined up behind them. In the council to our immediate north, the same procedure is used. In the council camp we attend the boys are in one rank, semi-circle around the flags. It varies from one council to another, but my experience is two out of three stand in single-file. My boys have been taught to stand in rank even if it means standing in the back where there is more room. Stosh

Skeptic, The camp we attend is not our council's camp. The boys have the option of going to whatever camp they want to and for the past three years have opted to go to a camp that meets their requirements, not what the council provides. As a matter of fact the camp they attend belongs to an out-of-state council. It wasn't a matter of being lucky, it was a process of research on the part of the boys to find a camp they really wanted to attend. Once they found this camp they have yet to want to attend any other. About midweek they start the process of bugging the leaders to make sure that at check out that we have reserved the camp for the next year. Stosh

Zippers fail because people do not open the door all the way, try to cram themselves into the small opening, putting strain on the zipper teeth which will, being nylon, eventually give out. I always open my door completely, even in heavily mosquito area and have never had a zipper problem. Stosh

150 years ago the command was Present Arms/Order Arms When scouting first started, the use of the staff was sometimes used and when Present Arms was given, the staff was brought up and held directly in front. If the boy did not have a staff, he hand saluted. Same process was used in the military in that the hand salute with weapon was different than when the soldier was without weapon. The only problem with today's ceremonies is that everyone does it differently and if one goes from one troop to another it is a wee bit confusing. There is no standard manual for use in the BSA so variance is going to rule the day. When early scouts stood in formation all the patrols stood in rank, meaning that if there were 8 patrols there would be 8 ranks. The PL's stood in the first file of each rank with the patrol flag. Today everyone stands in single file line behind the SPL and salutes the back of the head of the boy in front. My boys all stand in rank/file and looking better than the single-file process, our district at camporees have adopted the precedent. At least now some of the smaller boys can actually see the flag they are saluting. Whatever process a troop selects, it should at least show respect and decorum. As I tell my boys, with the flags, it is the most important thing you will be doing all evening. Stosh

The color guard does not retreat. The command is POST. They then return to their original post back where they started from when the command PRESENT THE COLORS was given. I have also found that the less commands the better. Too often verbosity takes over and every little movement is prefaced with a command. Scouts and Leaders, Attention. Present the colors. Salute. Follow me in the pledge. Post. Dismissed. Everything else is fluff and confusion. Stosh

Having camped all my life, I have many tents for which I use in different situations. If I'm doing car camping, I use my heavy canvas tent (A-Frame) that give me maximum protection. I use a cot and store my gear in a plastic bin. When it rains like gang-busters, I get out my chair, set it up, hang my lamp, put my feet on the cot and let the rain run right through the floor-less tent. It is held down with no guy-wires. 9 - 1' stakes around the edge hold it up and it's never gone down on me. It's got 3 poles and is like a pup tent that's tall enough to stand in. I can camp a whole week in that with no problem. If I'm back packing, I have a bivy tent. It's cramped but dryer than meadow crashing on a rainy night. I have two rubberized blankets that work nice for meadow crashing, too. I roll up in one and toss the other over my head with a stick to keep it up off my face. Been through some pretty heavy storms with that and always kept dry. If it's hot and I don't want to use the second rubber blanket, I sometimes use a nylon military poncho instead. If the weather looks bad and I don't want to take the big A-Frame, I use the standard military pup tent with vestibules on both ends. A small cot and rubber blankets and I'm good to go. Water runs through, but I never notice. Whereas nylon tents with floors have the constant struggle of trying and keep the water out. Well, if it comes in on the high side because of some leak, chances are there is no drain for it to exit. Welcome to a tent with swimming pool! I work with nature. If it wants to come in, fine, but just keep on going! If I brush the canvas and it starts to drip, just toss the rubber blanket over the bag and roll over and go back to sleep. A little secret from the old geezer? If it's dripping over your bag, touch the drip and slide your finger down towards the side of the tent. Water will leak in and run down the finger path you just made and will drip next to you instead. With no floor it will soak in pretty quickly. Learn to work with nature, not fight it. No tent is going to be as dry as one's bedroom back home. Adjust. Yes I own a 3-man Kelty, modern with rain that offers double vestibules and plenty of room. It's good but I get wet more often in that than any of the other tents because it doesn't have a decent drain. Stosh

Scoutmaster Minute: When is "good enough" doing your best? Stosh

It might be Navy/Marine thingy, but all the military personnel I have come in contact with informed me it is: "Present Arms" and "Order Arms". If the BSA is supposed to be non-military, why is it still using military terms? Scouts and leaders Attention! Very military The bugle calls are military too. BSA has ranks, so does the military. Scout is a military term. Single file line is military. "Lead by example" is right out of the US Army manuals. BSA is not a military organization! No wonder our boys grow up confused and conflicted.... Two! Stosh

"We have gone the bring your own option for a number of years, in order to save $$$$, usually about $20 per camper." We use the camp's wall tents and there is no discount for bringing your own, which our boys don't like to do. They're too small, they prefer the big wall tents. "As pointed out, we also have better shelter in most cases, as camp tents are not that good in weather, often in poor shape, and very hot." The camp has very nice tents, many brand new every year. Hold up in bad weather better than the nylon tents in my experiences. Hot? I'll take a wall tent over a dome tent any day for coolness. Ever wonder why there are grommets in the 4 corners? To lace the walls and doors. Pull the laces, roll up the walls and doors and you have a mini-fly. No way do I want a dome tent that has tight mesh screens and minimal ventilation. Last year the boys put all 4 tents end to end and had one long patrol "lodge". They opened up one side shebang style and had a blast for the week. "The only disadvantage is having to set up camp when we arrive, which makes things a bit tight sometimes." Our boys put up tents (4 per patrol), flys (2 per patrol), kitchens (2 wood stoves per patrol, all in-site cooking, no mess hall), clean the latrine and campfire bowl if necessary and still get in their swim tests, check-in, and orientation for the week. "But, the savings is well worth it." We don't save a dime, but this is the camp the boys unanimously vote every year to attend. Stosh

Twocubdad, Yep, we're on the same page now. I've always thought that a tree planted in my honor would be nice, too. The boys could find a handful of maple/oak seed, plant and see to it that it gets re-planted in a good place somewhere. Then I can always go and visit my tree, sit in its shade and remember all my years in Scouting. But then, that's just me. Stosh

1) I have attended summer camps where no tents were provided, BYO only. It was no problem for the boys or adults. (Wyoming) 2) I have attended summer camps where the tents (wall tents) were all set up with floors and cots. It was no problem for the boys or adults. (Wisconsin) 3) I have attended summer camps where the tents were optional, they provided them (wall tents), but boys set them up, dragged in floors put up their cots if desired and hung their mosquito nets. It was no problem for the boys or adults. (Wisconsin) My troop prefers camp option #3! Personally I don't have an opinion in any of these directions. As long as I'm out camping, I don't care. Stosh

Get real people, a SM who has invested 50 years in a troop deserves more than a 5 minute thank you at the end of some COH! This is a time to invite back every scout that ever had the opportunity to be in the troop, an honor guard of his/her eagle scouts and at least a potluck dinner! It would mean more to him/her than a plaque on the wall and a handshake. Stosh

With flags starting out 99% of our events where there are large crowds of people milling about, the PL in charge yells out, "Scouts and guest, Attention! Present the colors." I find that in about 100% of the cases, everyone stands up and silences themselves immediately. Sign;s Up! isn't necessary. This way everyone in the room, including parents and guests who don't know what sign's up gesture means, knows that paying attention is appropriate at that point. Obviously it is not necessary that everyone enters the COH room, for example, in somber silence in order to maintain control. Nope, let them talk and socialize, but when the activity starts, the flag ceremony will let them know things are about to begin. Again, I find very few instances inside the troop where sign's up is even necessary. Stosh

In a sense, you are right, it shouldn't make any difference, but for some of us, it does. That's the point of "disagreement". Yes, we are in the business of teaching our boys, but the core reason I do what I do is not to seek recognition for it. My WB beads showed up in the mail one day, my Outstanding Leader Award was given to me after being kicked around some guy's pickup truck for 6 months and he finally caught up to me at a camporee. It didn't bother me at all. I don't have enough wall space at home to put up all the junk I have gotten, but I can always find a good place for my mentor pins. So, yes, it does make a difference, a big difference to me. There are those that do need the expressions of appreciation to know that their efforts are worthwhile and for them, I can't find a plaque big enough to express my appreciation to them. If I know my ASM would really appreciate going on a certain event with the boys, I can always find an excuse to not go, i.e. Philmont is limited to two adults, etc. I've been there, and it would be a treat for them to get a chance. And that's how I prefer to do things. If I thought that having them stand up at a COH and get some applause was enough, I'd buy into the recognition program. But if I finagled them into a canoe trip, or week at summer camp with their son(s) that might speak more volumes of appreciation than a plaque. How appreciation is expressed is often times as important than the appreciation itself. I don't do the public thingy very often, but the leadership with me know exactly how much I appreciate them every step of the way. I'll meet you half way on it. It shouldn't make a difference, but for some it does, both ways. Some don't want the recognition, some do, some do it for the knots, patches and beads, others do it for the boys. To thank everyone the same would be praise to one and ho-hum to another. A scout is courteous... not a problem, it's a lesson that should be taught and all adults should lead by example. Stosh

Heck, we've had civil polarization in this country before. It only cost the lives of 400,000 people, but then if that happens, there will be less people clamoring for Social Security, medical benefits and Medicare. Lincoln was right, a house divided cannot stand. We have wolves at the door and the people are fighting over the only gun in the house. Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

If I received all the money I put into SS over the past 45 years at a modest interest rate I would retire a multi-millionaire. Instead I'm going to be getting a pauper's government dole in my retirement years. It's the biggest rip off the government has come up with until the schemes devised over the past 2 years. "Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help. The check is in the mail!" What a farce! Stosh

When I was in my former troop I would drive 34 miles round-trip to the meetings because I liked that troop. Now that I have moved and found a different troop, I drive only 21 miles round-trip. Our council has 3 districts and at one point I lived in one district, had a troop in another and a crew in the third. Yeah, it's a lot of travel and hassle, but I have what I consider the best possible experience for me. The small village (not a city) that I have my troop in has two troops (I was ASM in one of them and am now SM in the other) and 3 packs. I don't live in that village, but I live two cities away. Unless you live in a huge geographic, sparsely populated council, there should be a couple of options out there for you. Otherwise, the "start your own" sounds like a pretty good idea. Heck, you're already 3/4th the way there, just find 4 other boys your son's age and have at it. You're good to go. Even if you don't do very well the first couple of years, it's better than the alternatives! Stosh

Naw, it has nothing to do with parenting. I was in scouts before my kids, and now my kids are grown up and flown the nest and I'm still doing scouting. It's an obsession that I don't have to live my life through my kids, I just live my life with my kids. Some of them I've had to borrow these past few years, but they're still mine nonetheless. Stosh