Stosh

For those who may wonder about the size chart not being correct. I'm a 42-Long and so I ordered one. For $30 (postage/handling included), I figured it was worth the risk. It came today and it fits perfect. National screwed up and got it right this time. Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

Oak Tree, No parent ever wants to hear that their darling children are full of it, but your son is. These regulations are not written by 50 year old men, they are written by 30-40 year old men a generation later that have watered down the program and made it more difficult. The 50+ year old men remember the fun they had as Boy Scouts and wish for the return of that fun. If you don't believe me, just ask any kid whether the stories of their dads are better than the stories of their granddads. Stosh 60 years old and never grew up!

perdidochas, et al, I never camp alone, but I do have a lot more fun for several reasons. Imagine in your mind for a moment, one calls a Flash Mob at the boat landing next Friday night and... 1) Only scouts are notified. 2) Only your friends are notified. Which one will actually happen? Stosh

A sheath knife in the sheath on one's belt is a lot safer than a butcher/steak/paring knife unsheathed in the bottom of the chuck box. I also use in my fireman chit training a buck knife I used for years until the lock gave out on it one day. Lizzie Borden may have used an axe on her parents, but they still aren't outlawed at camps. "Any tool is dangerous in the hands of an immature or untrained user." I'm with desertrat77 on this one. The only downside to sheath knife/belt axe combo is it gives a distinct advantage at the fire starting competitions at camporees. Stosh

And with a little extra effort on your part, why not find 1 registered leader and another adult and take your patrol to the summer camp of your preference? What's the difference between a group of boys staying home for the summer because they don't like the camp and a group of boys going off for a summer camp week of their choice because they put a bit of effort into it. The troop as a whole will experience no difference with either option. Heck, a "patrol" of 17 is in reality is a 2 or 3 patrol "troop" in most places. Your mileage may vary, Stosh

I often times wear the BSA sheath knife/belt axe combo. Then you really get the stares. When questioned, it's my chef kit. Butcher knife and cleaver. Stosh

Once my committee replaced me as SM in my former troop, I have had more opportunity to go out and have fun than at any time in the past 20 years. I camp more, I kayak more, I travel more, and I hadn't realized how much time was consumed by trying to convince boys and especially their parents to get out and have some fun. I don't do tour permits, I don't have to wait for the boys to get their stuff together, I don't have to have any parent's permission slips signed, I don't need to register or sign up for anything, I don't need a medical form (although I get an annual check up anyway), I don't have any any problem with schedules, and if I want to do more kayaking on Sunday, I don't have to make a ton of phone calls saying I'm going to be 4 hours late getting home. I just say "Road Trip" and I'm out the door. Anyone that wants to go along, they're welcomed. Guys and gals both, bring your own equipment, and we'll see what is necessary as we head on down the road. Flash Mob at the trail head! Whereas when I was active in scouts, I would plan one maybe two outings a month, I now have plans for every weekend until the second weekend in October and I still have a week of vacation I haven't even planned for yet. Last year all my summer vacation was eaten up by summer camp and Jambo. This year a trip to Yellowstone with a stop in the Black Hills, a trip to the battlefields of Virginia and Washington DC and a trip to ???? Sea Kayaking on Lake Superior might work out, or... or... or.... I had not really noticed how much logistics/"paperwork" hoops one had to jump through to get the boys out into the woods each time. Now that one is on the outside looking in, it's really quite an eye-opener. Your mileage may vary, Stosh

Thanks Chug, even with the exchange rate, the hat comes in at $55. Not a bad price even with shipping. Stosh

Eagle92 I understand the use of the hat press, however if the shape of the head distorts the brim, then restoring the brim will return the hat configuration back as well and as soon as you put it on, it will either not fit or distort the brim. I like my hats like desertrat77 describes, "Neckerchiefs were worn loosely around the neck...campaign hats were bent, dusty, encrusted with sweat, and generally became unique to each wearer." And with all the compliments I get on the hats I wear, it seems to work for me. Next hat? British scout campaign hat! Those are hard to come by. Your mileage may vary, Stosh

If these coats are mis-sized and won't fit, I still should be able to pick up more than $30 on e-bay for them. Stosh

I don't inspect the boys' tents and they don't inspect mine. It's a respect thingy. One year we were in bear country and had some problems and the camp asked the leaders to go through the boy's stuff and check for forbidden items. I supervised. It would have been interesting last year when the boys set up their tent(s) they put them together end to end and made one long lodge. I thought it was kinda neat. It reminded me back in the day when my patrol had one big wall tent and everyone slept in the same tent. I figure if the boys want to live like animals, so be it. One can't be their mother when they are trying to develop individual independence and self determination. If the boy comes complaining because they can't find something they need in their tent, my standard answer is: "Not my problem. And by the way, what's the Scout Motto?" Eventually they figure it out. Too often boys are coerced into behavior due to self-esteem building rewards, when they would probably be better served by allowing them to make better personal decisions due to self-confidence building instead. Your mileage may vary, Stosh

Keep it in mind that today's BSA personnel are very particular about their flat brimmed campaign hats. Remember the shape of one's head forces the hat brim to change regardless of all the ironing and/or hat presses used. The only alternative to that would be a hat that is difficult and/or painful to wear for any length of time. A round hat on an oval head will create pressure points in front and back and gap at the sides. The hat comes with a certain shape, all the way from round to long oval. Depending on one's head shape it will distort the brim when worn. For example, assume the had is perfectly round and one's head is oval. Take the hat and stretch the inside front to back and the front and back of the brim will lower while the sides rise. It's going to take quite a bit of time and moisture to change that. Once one removes the hat if it doesn't resume it's original shape, the brim will remain somewhat distorted. Once pressed, it should return to the true round it started with. If you look at the historic pictures of scouts and Rockwell paintings, none of the hats depicted show a flat brim. Unless one takes the hat to a professional hatter and has the oval set exactly to the shape of the head, the brim will never lay flat. That adds a bit to the cost of the hat and inconvenience of finding someone to professional fit the hat. I wear my hat with bent brim, it adds character and a personal touch to the hat. It also shades my face and neck better as well. I'm sure the pictures of the police and military who sport flat brims have had their hats professionally shaped. And don't even get me going on the diaper covers some scouters put over the hat when it rains! Your mileage may vary, Stosh

I'm a 42-Long! Thanks for the heads up. Stosh

"Problem with most scouts is that it is cost prohibited, $94.99 for an official one." The cost is not prohibited, it is relevant. These same boys/parents don't bat an eye at dropping that kind of money on a pair of shoes for their boys. $94.99 is on the cheap side for some of these shoes. What it comes down to is priorities. There's only so much money in each family and one can't be spending $94.99 on a hat when they have to save up for a $200 cell phone or iPad. The cost is not a problem, it's only an excuse. Stosh

If it's a boy-led program I would think there be some support for the boys somewhere in there too, offering suggestions to SM, and boy leaders to assist them in running a good BSA program. Individuals on the committee assist the boys as well, i.e. treasurer working with Quartermaster, etc. Otherwise, if it's an adult led program, then the committee dictates any and all decisions in the program. Kinda depends on what type of program the CO wants. Stosh

I might have reconsidered my decision if everyone was taking the guard training, but if you are the only one, that means you're the only one that doesn't swim ever,... at any swim activity,... until your certificate runs out. Remember this was 50 years ago and the swim requirements aren't the same as they are today. Everyone swam and everyone took turns being swimming lookout, which was a scout that didn't swim but watched others. Taking turns meant at least most of the time you got some time in the water. If you were a certified LG, then there was no need for any lookouts and so you were expected to be permanent lookout. Nothing fair about that. I could have gotten my certificate and then never said anything to the SM. That would be just as dishonest as getting permanently delegated as "volunteer non-swimmer" for every swim activity. Want to be the lad that gets blamed every time for a swim activity that gets cancelled because you didn't want to stand on shore all afternoon watching everyone else play in the lake? Your mileage may vary, Stosh

SeattlePioneer, Why would it be a poor line of reasoning? Everyone else gets to go swimming and you get to stand on the dock at every swim event where a LG is needed. I took my turn as LG lookout along with everyone else, but if there had been a problem, I would have been prepared to handle it whether I was in the water or on the dock. Having the pedigree does not guarantee anything, having the knowledge is priceless. Had I wanted to be a paid LG at the local pool and sit in the high chair for hours at a time and get paid for it, then swimming the last little bit might have been worth it. But I preferred to go swimming with my buddies. I am trained way beyond T-FC first aid requirements. I am trained way beyond Wilderness FA, I am trained way beyond the Red Cross FA training, I was an American Heart Association CPR trainer, Nationally Registered EMT-A, and State Certified Emergency Rescue Technician, and 15 years experienced in emergency medicine. Today I hold no certifications except for the general public CPR training. I may no longer be able to run with any ambulance service in the field because I'm not certified, but if I come across a car accident in my everyday life, I surely know what to do. Had I followed the line of reason that is being questioned, I would have kept up all my certifications over the past 20 years. Ain't gonna happen just to have a piece of paper in my billfold. The pedigree Certification means nothing, the knowledge is everything. Stosh

When my boys wanted to stand out, they wore full uniforms, all carried 6' walking sticks, the SPL carried a white bullet flag with three strips on it, ASPL had same with 2 1/2 strips, patrol flags carried by PL's were all uniform and the boys all stood in formation. The troop flag and American flag were also carried by the patrol responsible for flag ceremony that day. They had done the camp flags earlier in the morning. While at camp flags they didn't look around, they didn't do anything except march in, stand at attention, salute as necessary and march out. It made such an impression, that the camp staff came over and wanted to talk and only the SPL fielded questions (we were the only out-of-council troop there). Afterwards about half the camp staff stopped by to "chat" with the boys in the campsite and were surprised to see them all in uniform. It was a cook in patrol site camp and still the boys were in full uniform. Throughout the week everyone at camp knew which troop our members belonged to because they were in full uniform. Although the other boys didn't say much except an occasional chide here and there, the adults all wanted to know what the "secret" was. My SPL summed it up rather nicely, "There's no secret about wearing the uniform and showing pride in our troop, everyone in camp can see that." My SPL also commented at the end of the week how surprised he was that the boys stood out so much simply because they did it right. From that point on, all outings (camporees, etc.) the boys were in full uniform and adhered to the tradition. Sure the boys were not all spit and polish while in camp, a shirt tail out here and there, etc., but at flags, they all could have passed a uniform inspection with no problems. Your mileage may vary, Stosh

Our boys wore full uniform for the whole week, except for swimming events. They did not participate in flag raising/retirement days that didn't expect the boys to be in uniform. Stosh

BSA used to have this compass game as part of it's literature. You can still pick up the cards and scorepads on E-Bay. Stosh

When I was a lad, a few years ago, I took the complete Lifeguard course (Red Cross, I believe). When I told my mom all I had left was the mile swim and I'd be certified she quietly asked me if that was what I really wanted. She told me that if I were certified I'd have to sit on the dock watching everyone else swim. I swam .99% of the mile and stopped. Was that a bad decision? Nope. What I learned I retained for the rest of my life. I have had to use the skills a few times and knowing what to do was great. Being pedigree made no difference and being a former Nationally Registered EMT-A has allowed me knowledge and experience that make no difference now that the certification has expired. Maybe those 14 year old's won't get their certification, but had they paid attention and actually learned something in the course, they will have gotten their money's worth. Been there, done that. Of course, if they didn't pay attention and didn't learn, then they shouldn't have the certification anyway. Your mileage may vary, Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

AGREE with SSScout! get a decent mouthpiece, it makes a world of difference both in tone and ease of playing. The mouthpieces on most bugles really is poor. Stosh

20 pins? While it is not necessary to get all 20 pins, I didn't think it was a very good idea to not at least give the boys the opportunity to earn all 20. With that being said, it does not have to be all school-like in how one approaches the issue. If planned out correctly the boys will naturally acquire most of the pins without any classroom style teaching. The most "embarrassing" event of my tenure as WDL was at a Blue-Gold, the CM asked one of the boys receiving his pin what he did to earn that. His reaction was the traditional deer-in-the-headlight" look. He was terrified! He honestly did not know. It was so engrained in all the fun that he didn't know specifically what he had done that pertained to that pin. Most of the "classroom" was done around a campfire on an outing, otherwise it was integrated into the rest of our activities. Aquanaut was earned while getting ready and doing the TF/BSA swim requirement for example. Otherwise it was while were hanging out at the local pool having fun. Did the boys get all 20 pins? Nope. Some wanted to play in the pool and weren't interested in working on the "test". Some didn't show up for events that were planned, etc. But at least they were exposed to it. Yes, by the time they got into BSA, they were all ready for the swim test at camp whether they earned the aquanaut in Webelos or not. Your mileage may vary, Stosh

I did not run a traditional Webelos program when I was in as WDL. I was an ASM in a troop assigned to advancement. For Wood Badge, I went back and picked up 6 Webelos I boys because there were no Webelos II that year. My WB ticket called for work with the Webelos to Scouts transition. I planned out all the badges picking the indoor ones for winter and outdoor ones for summer to work on. I took the boys on a lot of outings. If we were doing something most often it was outdoors even if it was an indoor activity. I worked through all the pins except Family Member which I had them do on their own with the family. I ran the program once a week for an hour which is far more often than most CS dens do. Because of the extra time we went back and "redid" the pins again, much more in detail and with a lot more fun and games because it wasn't for advancement then, it was just for fun. For communicator, for example we went out and used flags to signal from one high point to another, had a lunch, hiked and had a great outing. Needless to say all the boys received their AOL at the end of Webelos I. We began the program right after BG one year and finished up one year later. The Webelos II year we started doing some of the TF things to get ready for Boy Scouts. We did a lot of Dad/Lad camping, canoeing, hiking, cooking and having a blast. Webelos II lasted about 6 months and then they crossed over to Boy Scouts at the end of the summer. Within a month they were all TF and within 6-7 months they were all FC. Out of the 6 boys 5 of them Eagled and the other one moved out of the area, tied in with another troop, but soon quit. The SM kept telling me to hold them back so that BS won't be so boring~!??? It was interesting the scout meeting where the boys were going to be taught their knots. There was a big, hands on presentation all lined up with instruction, practice time and testing. The boys all filed in and sat down ready for the instruction. Just before the instruction was to start, one of the boys raised his hands and the SM called on him. He asked if we could start with the test. One by one they came forward, did all the knots for the SM and sat down. Then the boy raised his hand again and when the SM called on him, he asked if they could play a knot tying game now. Heck, these were the boys I went to Philmont with! One of the boys gave me his mentor pin (I was still an ASM) and said that except for his Dad, I had spent more time with him than any other adult male helping him grow up. What makes a good Webelos program? YOU. Get a book, get trained (no such thing as too much training), plan out a program for all the pins, make sure they are fun and then sit back and have a good time with the boys! It's going to be the best time of your life. What did I do after I got done with my WB ticket? I went back and did another 2 years with Webelos!!!!! They are a great age to work with! The secret? Every time they ask something, your standard answer is "Sure, why not, sounds like fun!" Your mileage may vary, Stosh

Bestowing blame removes guilt and thus turns everyone's attention away from the one responsible, or in most cases, irresponsible. We used to be a culture of shame (corporate guilt) but soon narrowed that down to just individual guilt, now we just pass it along to "someone else". Stosh