Stosh

I'll offer my suggestion... I'm quite different in my definition of leadership and the roles of responsibility in groups. Whereas the decree style of leadership means the grand poobah makes the decree and then it gets passed down the chain of command to the last guy on the list. While that may work well for certain organizations, i.e. military, it doesn't often go well in an all volunteer organization, i.e. BSA, churches, etc. So I reverse the "flow", which is generally becoming in vogue even in the world of business. Where I work the statement that just came out of our CEO (multi-billion dollar international company) is: "The person working on the assembly line doesn't work for us, we work for them." If one carries that to the Pack, what is the ultimate goal? Good program? Strong leaders? or happy kids? Therefore I would envision some training as a unit commissioner for the CM. Then take those dynamics of that position and apply them to the Pack. View each Den as a "unit" and observe, evaluate, and ASSIST the DL to be able to provide the best for the boys, just like a UC does for a unit. After observing a den meeting, one might offer up some suggestions to the DL in the form of non-judgmental observations. "Did you notice Johnny in the back row nodding off? Maybe more play than lecture next time?" "Did you notice that Freddie didn't eat any of the treats? Maybe he should bring in the treats next time so he has something, too." "I noticed you have 10 boys in the den but only 2 showed up. Was there something going on at school?" etc. A lot of times some of the DL's are so wrapped up in trying to do a good job they get overwhelmed with details and don't realize the ship is sinking. I think a lot of DL's would take even some negative heat from the CM if the last words they hear from you is: "What can I do to help you?" A functional CM should be the first level of support for DL's. There's a lot more than showing up at a Pack meeting and being the emcee. Sometimes it takes rolling up your sleeves and helping a struggling DL. If the CM's name is not first on the list of someone to turn to for help, then there's something seriously wrong with the program and the boys are going to eventually suffer for it. Just my opinion.... Stosh

What is being touted as "leadership" today can be likened more towards administration rather than traditional leadership. Administration is a skill set, i.e. listening, EDGE, organization, etc. Leadership is not a skill set, but an attitude as to how one applies administrative skills. If I teach admin skills to a self-centered bully, he can become a super-bully on steroids! If I teach those same admin skills to a caring person, he can turn the world upside down and his followers will follow him anywhere. I have always felt a strong disconnect between what people are defining as leadership today with a more historical definition of leadership. An SPL with all the appropriate admin skills may or may not be a leader. How does one know if he is or not? Just ask the question, do they follow him, if not who are they following? That person is the true leader regardless of their admin skills. Stosh

"The divorce rate in America for first marriage, vs second or third marriage 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second and 74% of third marriages end in divorce, according to Jennifer Baker of the Forest Institute of Professional Psychology in Springfield, Missouri. According to enrichment journal on the divorce rate in America: The divorce rate in America for first marriage is 41% The divorce rate in America for second marriage is 60% The divorce rate in America for third marriage is 73%" Kinda makes one wonder how the divorce rate of +50% can have 61% of children living with both biological parents. Kinda makes one wonder where all the numbers come from. :} Stosh

I'm an old fashioned, back-to-basics, out-of-the-box kind of person and Kudu has been really helpful in understanding how to hang on to what's important for our boys. I have worked with young people for 40+ years and find that what Kudu has to offer very helpful! .... well, as long as you stay 300' from him. Stosh

Tampa, The higher percentage is based on a male/female parent combo, but does not take into consideration that one of the two parents is step. A few years back I heard that the percent of children living with biological parents in the home was at 12% but has now dropped to 7-8% in the last study conducted. Being in the small-town, conservative, midwest, I thought the number may be higher, but as I look back over the many kids I've dealt with over the past 40 years, the number from natural households has dropped dramatically. Add to that the number of households where only one parent worked and the other stayed home with the kids, and the number becomes remarkably small. With the breakdown in the family structure, is it any wonder we have parents competing with children's quality time? Even with natural family structures, I wonder how many times a week the whole family actually sits down to the traditional family time of dinner? Yes, great lengths are taken to make up for this short-fall, but nothing contrived replaces real relationships. Yes, these comments sound very harsh, but it doesn't detract from the reality of what we as leaders are facing in today's society. No different for the school and churches either. Stosh

Mauston has a BSA camp, Can't remember it's name, it has changed since I was a kid. Glacier's Edge council runs it out of Madison. Oxford is nice if you can get in as well. Otherwise check churches in the area as has been mentioned. I don't know if Mirror Lake SP has any winter camp cabins, but there is Rocky Arbor SP and Devil's Lake SP there as well. Check the state website for winter cabins. Check some of the resorts in the area, they do group discounts in the winter. Kalahari is a big one with the indoor waterpark and the Black Wolf near there as well. If you wish to consider Mt. La Crosse instead. Gateway Area Council has a BSA camp Decorah near that slope. I don't know how available the cabins are because it is heavily used in the winter as well. Stosh

As a divorced dad, I did what I could, but didn't have much interaction with my kids. Tried to do the things my parents did for me. They grew into independent, well-rounded, married individuals that will do well in life. Unfortunately they never got the quality of upbringing I had but talk about it and they agree that there's more that needs to be done in their lives in the hopes of raising kids to be more like their grandfather. That may not be a good idea, but at least they will have a better chance than they did coming from a broken home. Just remember that about 7-10% of the kids today live in a home with their biological mother and father. That minority seems to be getting less and less as each day passes. I often wonder what parenting traditions are actually being passed on. At least I got to grow up in the Golden Age of America. Stosh

Ever consider the other boys working together to raise funds for all or maybe a deserving scout? Yeah, it's not fair and balanced financially, but then many service projects aren't. I would think the boys would find working to help others at all times, including their fellow scouts, might not be a bad lesson to stress in a financially stressed area. Maybe the deserving scout could set up a fundraiser in town, i.e. bake sale at Wal-Mart and his buddies show up to provide cookies and cakes and man the booth to help their buddy. I have known many instances where the older boys going to Philmont had fundraisers and the younger boys who weren't going showed up to help. Fits nicely into many of the Scouting principles we try to instill in the boys. After all, how many scouts' families might in fact be receiving some of the Scouting for Food collected? Never know, not important. It doesn't make any difference whether one knows the needy person or not, it's something one does to develop character. This process also points out one of the pitfalls of individual scout accounts. It divides the boys into those who have and those who don't. It also means that an aging out scout can't designate his individual account to a deserving scout either. Too often they go out and spend their account before they leave so it doesn't go into the troop's general fund and get lost in the shuffle of paperwork. Need to look at the system and see if it can't be modified away from much of the traditions that often revolve around troops, especially in difficult times. Stosh

The true scout duct tapes his badges and uses Badge Magic around the edges and then staples it for added security. And the really hard-core scouts use thumb tacks. Stosh

I have often suggested the leaf raking, snow shoveling, odd-job kind of thing. There is nothing wrong with raising money on your own to pay for scouts. I did it that way and always had money in my pocket. I have held at least a part-time job since I was 12 years old. I went off to college in 1968 with $7,000 in the bank and came out 8 years later with a master's degree $1,500 in student loans and $7,000 in the bank. I also bought a new car during that time. If a scout is thrifty, what makes anyone think the problem is with the parent's finances? In this day and age of parental entitlements, it is my opinion that if the parents can't afford it and the boy won't get off the sofa and contribute, he isn't taking the Thrify Law very seriously. Stosh

LOL! I have two old aluminum canoes and with a few rivets knocked out of one, it is imperative that a fresh layer of duct tape goes on before each day's travel! Stosh

A scout's best friend is duct tape. Stosh

I am lead to believe that adults think kids have low-quality play, but if one polls the kids I don't think that's the same conclusion they would have. While it is noble to have all sorts of organized sports for the boys, I found sand-lot ball far more fun. In this day and age of kids unable to leave home once they reach adulthood, I would think a program that provides the tools to grow up and be independent would be something parents would seek out. I may be an exception to the rule, but I did learn from my buddies how to ride a bike and it didn't have training wheels. I guess it just depends on what one wants for their children, independence or dependence. Stosh

Whoa there Eagle92! Cut the pants off and leave them unhemmed until you get home. Blow out the crotch? Well, that's a gotta-do-right-away. As a side note... When I started a Civil War Reenacting Venturing Crew a number of years back, the first thing I taught the boys was to sew. Hardly an event goes by that someone isn't sitting around the campfire with spectators all around sewing something back together. I have a home-spun shirt so rag-tag and cobbled together that other reenactors have offered me up to $75 to sell it to them. The worse the shirt gets, the more valuable it is. The real challenge is sewing your shoes back together to get cha through the weekend! Duct tape isn't period correct! My original scout shirt still has a 1993 temporary patch on it, but it doesn't look as bad as my CW shirt. Close, but not as bad. Stosh

I've sewn pockets shut, I've sewn sleeves shut, I've even sewn patch, shirt and the pants I'm wearing together. For pockets, put a small notebook in the pocket before trying to sew. No needle is going to go through to the shirt. For sleeves, roll up a 8 1/2" X 12" notebook and slide down the sleeve before sewing. For patch/shirt/pants combo, quit watching TV, get off the sofa and sew at the table where you're supposed to be in the first place. Stosh

I guess I don't subscribe to the idea that without adults all boys resort to Lord of the Flies mentality. If I did, being pro-patrol-method, pro-boy-led, would not enter into my realm of awareness. If Cub Scouts is not a prep program for Boy Scout leadership development, then it might as well be a stand alone program and we need to quit trying to focus on any Webelos to Boy Scout transition efforts. Thinking that boys can't have fun without adult supervision, direction, or whatever, implies that young people can't have fun by themselves. I grew up in an era where we had our programs and time as kids and at a different time we had time with our families. It's kinda like parents have time to go to work and the kids have time to go to school, and at a different time, they come together for family time. Not that the two were always mutually exclusive, but a guy's gotta have some time to be with his buddies without mom and dad constantly looking over their shoulder making sure they're having fun. Too often with stage mothers, helicopter parents and soccer dads, it is the parent that is trying to relive their childhood through their kids and the kids end up with no life of their own. Independence, self-confidence and simple growing up is a rare commodity in today's world. BSA is one of the last bastions of that principle and it has taken a hard it in the past 20 years or so. I guess with having worked with kids for the past 40 years, I have come to see those kids that grow up and have strength of character emulate adult behavior when given an opportunity to evaluate things on their own and adopt as part of their character without having to be told to do so or somehow interfered with by parents, teachers, pastors, etc. If you can't see this, you have never had teenaged kids. Scouting is a lot more than settling for taking pride in being on the state champion football team as the water boy, because dad's got connections with the coach. Stosh

If one is careful with the backing they should not have bleeding fingers. I sew on patches all the time and have never used a thimble. I sew the wrap threads on the edge of the patch rather than through the patch itself. First stitch into the threads to hide the knot. Second stitch: While holding/pinned patch go down into the shirt right were the knot is and then diagonally under the shirt coming back up further down the edge catching 2-3 patch threads. Third stitch. Go down into the shirt right were the needle came up, a tad under the patch to hide the thread, go diagonally down the patch coming back up and catching 2-3 threads of the patch. Once you get all the way around the patch, then tuck the knot thread under the patch and finish up with the down/diagonal/catch method described. If done correctly one cannot tell the patch is sewn on unless they look on the inside of the shirt. One never has to push the thread through any plastic backing using this method. Stosh

I wonder if PWD would cease to exist if there was: 1) No trophies 2) No ribbons 3) No adults making their own cars I wonder what would happen if the Pack just set up the track and let the boys have at it. They race their cars and decide on their own who wins. Stosh

Basement, That works for Cubs, not Venturers. I'm seriously thinking about a Flash Mob Venturing Crew. Announce a date, time and place and let the kids figure out how to work out the details. Have plenty of BSA registration forms when you show up. If no one shows, the adults go and have fun by themselves. If the kids show up, even better. Eventually the kids will figure out how to make it work. Stosh

I'm not one to rely on "usually". Stosh

For me, I find it a problem that National has nylon/poly pants in the first place. The last thing I want to be wearing near a campfire is nylon clothing. I was stoking a fire when a boy tossed in another log and an ember laden chunk flew up and hit me in the arm. I got a couple of small holes in my wool jac-shirt, and no burns on my arm. I can only imagine what would have happened had I been wearing a nylon windbreaker. A nylon pant could be repaired in the same way a nylon tent is repaired, glue and patch on the backside. Stosh

One also has to remember the dynamics of what drives this whole process. Six months in a POR dictates somehow into a boy having to serve six months in the same POR. This of course locks the process into an uncompromising position. Okay, what's wrong with 6 patrols each having a PL and for one month each PL takes turn being SPL to learn the position and develop further leadership. Each of the 6 boys will have 5 months as PL and 1 month as SPL. This could also develop troop leadership from within the patrols as well. The patrol Scribe would function as Scribe for that month. Same for the patrol QM, etc. There are some who think this does not qualify for 6 months in A POR. Or the boy gets elected as SPL and he does nothing. Does that mean the troop is to suffer for the next four months with willing boys who would do the job sitting on the sidelines? Make it work for the boys, not the traditional system that doesn't allow enough flexibility to be effective. It is also good to keep it tucked away in the back of one's mind that we are in the business of training leaders, not expecting them to start out leaders. Every boy should get every opportunity to develop his own leadership style. Stosh

The Cub Scout motto is DO YOUR BEST. Well, what happens to Junior when his best is not THE best? I guess I'm not ready to tell a kid his best is not going to cut it in the long run. In our day and age of everything centered around competition, good sportsmanship is just a way of telling boys to accept the fact that they didn't win and don't embarrass yourself because of it. I know that's harsh, but watch the boys "shake hands" after the game. Yeah, right, if the coach didn't force them to do it, they wouldn't do it. When I was a WDL, my boys did not compete. I didn't expect them to do their best either. Instead I expected the boys to be the best and gave them the opportunity to do just that. When they entered into the Boy Scout program there was a lot of "friction" with the older boys, because they didn't just go through the motions of getting their Webelos pins to decorate their shirts, they earned them. All but one was FC within 6 months of starting Boy Scouts. The last one took 7 months. They were good at what they did and they knew it, no one had to pat them on their back and tell them that. Five of the six Eagled. Four of the six served in the military. And as far as I know they are all pretty successful in what they eventually chose to do in life. The friction came about because these boys didn't sit around waiting for accolades and opportunities to come their way, they went out and found them. Eagle mill attitude on my part? Nope. It was interesting at one Pack meeting when the pins were being given out, the CM asked one of the boys if he was having fun. He answered with an enthusiastic YES. Then he asked him what he had done to earn his Readyman pin. He honestly told the CM he didn't know. Everyone in the place was thus staring at me including the CM. I stood up and asked the boy if he knows anything about first aid. He beamed and started rattling off all the stuff he knew about first aid and the trip to the rescue unit, etc. etc. The CM got the second boy up there and asked the same first question about fun, but then asked what he had done to get the Communicator pin. Again blank a stare. I asked the boys how many of them learned Morse Code and got to play as long as they wanted to at the campout with their flashlights. Gotta know the right questions to ask. There were no other dens to compete with and the boys didn't compete with each other, but they had fun and learned that these skills were a lot of fun and in the mean time, got really good at them. The friction came when the other Webelos den boys crossed over they just didn't have the level of skill as my boys did. My boys didn't gloat about it, they just knew it and instead of lording over the others, they found great fun/pride in teaching the others. Three of those 6 boys were DC's in their former pack as well. Competition is over rated. Winning is socially motivated, confidence is self motivated. Not everyone can win, but everyone can have self-confidence in what they do. Stosh

Scout A approaches the trauma victim and asks what's wrong. The Victim says he has a broken arm. Scout A grabs a couple of sticks and splints it up with necker ties. The whole process takes less than 1 minute. Scout B approaches the trauma victim and says, I noticed you hurt your arm, huh! Where exactly does it hurt? Do you hurt anywhere else? He calls out to another buddy to go for help. Gets a couple of splints which he pads with neckers and tapes it up with duct tape. Then he takes a pulse in the victim's hand to make sure it isn't too tight. Then he creates a sling because the splint is kind of heavy and frees up the victim's other hand from having to hold it. The whole process takes about 10-15 minutes. Way too long for the competition. If I break my arm I want the loser to attend to me. Being first isn't always being the best. Confidence in being the best beats out competitions any day. Too often I see competition requirements not measuring correctly and giving the boys a false sense of what is really important, and sometimes being first isn't all that important. A patrol that has the best first aid person, the best fire builder, the best cook, the best.... etc. is the goal and often times that patrol will function at a higher level, but will get beat out by the others on a regular basis. A patrol that has all second place "winners" will never win anything not even the overall. When I venture out into the woods, I may not be the best at any of the outdoor skills, but when I'm in a group, not necessarily scouts, everyone seems to expect me to lead because I do very well at everything, but I'm sure that in any of the vast tool box of skills necessary for the trip, I can be beat out on individual skills by other members of the group. I never get picked first when sport teams are being selected, usually last or on a good day, second from the last. But if something goes terribly wrong, my name gets called out first if I'm within earshot. Subjectivity is very difficult to measure. Stosh

No matter how one sugar-coats the process, competition means someone's going to win and everyone else is going to lose. One can win/lose as an individual and deal with it by yourself, or as a team where one can share in the win/lose. The perception of win/lose is often arbitrary at best. We teach our boys skills, and test them for advancement purposes. Then we test them at camporee competitions, but the only real test is out in the real world where win/lose is, well, for a lack of a better word, real. Eagle scouts that never again venture into the outdoors unless he has a son in which he will subject him to the Eagle requirements sufficient to pass on the tradition. But to take your kids just to go camping? Never happen. Where's the win here? On the college application and job resume only. Even our school system has become so "politically correct", that Johnny can't ever see Mary's test results because someone's going to be emotionally traumatized somewhere along the way. Participation ribbons? Yep, there's a solution to the emotional trauma. Like everyone doesn't know how those work in a competitive world. Personal best? Yep, you did best you could, even better than you ever have, but any of your buddies can blow you away in a head-to-head for-real competition. Competition isn't necessary in scouts other than in games that everyone finds fun to play. Competing against nature, or the whitewater, or putting your skills together to take on the challenge of 15 miles a day backpacking, may have a place in scouting, but after 30 years of scouting I have never participated as a youth or adult in a pinewood derby. My son who was in scouting never felt it was necessary either. We went camping instead and hung out at the campfire. Just ask yourself, if only one boy showed up for a pinewood derby, would he have fun? vs. if one boy got lost in the woods, would he know what to do? An Eagle scout friend of mine joined the Air Force and as part of his training, his squad was dropped off in the middle of desert in the middle of the night with a map, a compass and notice that breakfast was at 0600 hours. He took the map and compass and figured out where they were, set a course and went back to base. His buddies all followed him. He was back in time to catch a shower and get cleaned up before breakfast. Other groups didn't come in until later that day and some even that evening. So what did this boy win? Hot shower, hot breakfast and the whole day off from duty because he wasn't out running around lost in the desert. He didn't need a medal for that. A participation ribbon does not instill confidence in a boy, neither does besting out novices. Just because someone is the same age as you, does not mean they are an equal. I guess I would rather build confidence in the program instead of competition, because competition is arbitrary, confidence isn't. Stosh