Stosh

I do think the mom was very well intended when she volunteered to help out. But as was the case, "something came up." The woman had a couple of choices, excuse herself and leave the board in the lurch for a few moments, excuse herself and say this wasn't a good time for her and leave, or, collect up herself, do her best and with all due respect for the boy, continue the BOR under unfortunate circumstances. There was no intent ever to disrespect the Eagle candidate, but she knew the situation was difficult and in order for this young man to get his BOR she stayed with it and completed her task. I know full well she didn't plan for this and hoped to avoid the worse case scenario. It didn't work out for her. I do not see this as any attempt to disrespect the Eagle candidate, but instead, knew the importance of what she needed to do and stuck it out for him. Like the lady who lost her skirt, you do the best with what you have and life goes on. Ideally? I would make every attempt to make the EBOR the best it can be. But Murphy's Law always comes back to haunt us that it doesn't always work out that way. I was a pastor for 15 years and I know for a fact that no matter how much the bride wants the wedding to go off perfect, it NEVER WILL. Just ain't gonna happen. Stosh

Planned the feeding around the review???? I take it Barry you've never had nursing kids. I know of no kid under the age of 1 that cares one bit about adult schedules, neither day nor night! My first child proved beyond a reasonable doubt that by crying for 2 weeks, she could keep both parents from getting a good night's sleep. I remember going off to work just to get some sleep. My nursing children had the uncanny expertise of wanting to be fed every time we sat down to eat. I don't know if the smell of food triggered it or not, but regardless of where we were, they got hungry when the food showed up at the table. The kids never wanted a bottle even with breast milk. That meant my wife couldn't go anywhere or do anything for about a year. Nope, scheduling was not an option. I think that there are more inappropriate things BOR members can do than nurse a baby. I think it was admirable this woman took the time to show up to help, and unfortunate she drew negative reactions for doing something as natural as that. Had this been my wife, she might have welcomed the opportunity to get out of the house and interact with others in a very important process for this young man. Sorry, I can't think of a negative reason to comment on this woman's situation. So replace that woman with the veteran SM with 40+ years experience as SM of various troops who gets a coughing spell in the middle of a EBOR, covers his mouth and continues for about a minute working on a lugie, before sniffing a couple of times, wiping his hand on his pants and his eyes on his sleeve, and says, "Now, where were we?" Life doesn't always go the way we want it, get over it. This young woman stepped up to help when asked, that's more than a lot of others would do, even if they weren't nursing newborns. End of story. Stosh

We all know that men are from Mars and women, from Venus. How they interact with others is very reflective of those differences. I always use the little "test" to demonstrate these differences. Mom and Dad are standing at the bottom of a tall tree. Their young daughter is climbing it. When asked what advice the girl should get, Mom's more often than not answers, "Be careful!". Dad's will advise, "How high can you go?!". This seems to be the standard. BUT if the child were a boy?, Mom's more often than not answers, "Be careful!" and Dad's will advise, "How high can you go?!". It is important that there be a balance between these two philosophies in raising children. They of course need to be cautious when they "climb trees", but without Dad, they will never reach for the stars! It makes no difference if it's a boy or girl child, they both need this dualism in their development. BSA promotes the quest for the best, reaching for the stars so to speak. As time passes and society changes from a male dominant society to one with more and more female influences, society becomes more cautious and reserved. Don't believe me, just look around. BSA, in response to such changes, has scaled back the adventure of reaching for the stars. Stosh

I don't have a problem with this parent. Seems to me CalicoPenn is right on with the rationale. No harm, no foul. 95% of the women who breast feed do it with great discretion and modesty and for the most part most casual observers wouldn't even know what was going on. Had it been disruptive, I'm sure the Eagle candidate would not have been unperturbed nor come through with flying colors. Sounds like a nice young man that can handle sensitive situations with composure and maturity. Congratulate the young man for me, both his character as well as his Eagle. Stosh

I was thinking about maybe getting a Goth Society going. Uniforming shouldn't be a problem. Stosh

Try being white, senior, male in today's society and see where it gets you. 30 years of scouting experience and no troop and no one's beating down my door. Have I slowed down due to my older age? Heck no, I do more today than I did when I was 18 and unfortunately now I do it only for myself and wife. We do more outdoor activities than any troop on this forum. So where's the problem? Danged if I know, but I'm beginning to rather enjoy my early BSA retirement. Every male has his own story, and BSA isn't asking any of them what it is. Could be that if they would, the role of males in BSA may return. Stosh

Isn't there some kind of hypocrisy going on when the uniform is not required, but you have to have one to go to Jamboree... If BSA doesn't take it seriously why should anyone else? Stosh

SUFFER Skills Used For Frequent Environmental Retreats WHIMPS Woodcraft Hyped In Managed Personal Skills SWAT Scout Woodcraft Activity Training NOGO National Outdoor Gathering Orientation Man, I ought to be working for BSA' PR department (or better yet, working at my job like I'm supposed to be doing right now) Stosh

The importance of anything resides in the scouters promotion of the program. After many years of working with youth, there is one dynamic that seems to be hyper-sensitized in youth and that is hypocrisy. "Don't do as I do, do as I say" is the one they most often pick up on, but their radar goes way beyond that. For example, the SM who insists on every T crossed and I dotted when it comes to advancement and "following the rules" and yet tells the boys to take a slide on the uniform. Is the message: You adhere or slide depending on the SM's mood, philosophy, ego, etc. So then all boys that "get in trouble" are those that didn't guess right. A scout is trustworthy. That means there are people out there that stick to what's right no matter what even if they don't personally agree with it. That may not mean they are popular or liked, but they can be trusted. Even if boys don't agree with such adults, at least they respect them for the stance they take. We spend a lot of time and energy on this forum seeking various interpretations, when in fact, what we are really seeking is justification. That, my friend, is the ultimate in hypocrisy and don't think for a moment that the boys aren't tuned in to that. Am I exempt from such hypocrisy? Heck no, fall prey all the time, but at least I can recognize it and get back on track. There are those out there that can't/won't. Stosh

Those perfumed tiki torches are a lifesaver! It kinda reminds me of National Jamboree when a couple of the other leaders came to me with a concern that they hadn't seen me take a shower all week long and they were concerned the example I was setting. I told them that at age 60 men have a tendency to get up at 3:00 am for a trip to the Kybo. Heck, as long as you're up, head for the showers. At 3:00 am, one has the whole shower tent to themselves even at National Jamboree! And all the hot water heaters had time to recycle, too! I told them that if any of the boys were that worried about me, I'd be happy to get them up at 3:00 am. I got no takers! 3 uniforms, 3 pairs of socks and underwear, and laundry detergent. Got by all week long! It is a hassle to do laundry all the time, but even more of a hassle to drag along all that extra clothing. At Philmont, that got cut to 2 of everything. Wear one, wash the other. It was a problem at only one dry camp. Stosh

No one said it was a regulation sized volleyball court. Remember, these are little boys. Stosh

I do believe the thread is mistitled. The consensus of today is that there is only slight if no importance at all of uniforming. T-shirts posing as "Class-B" i.e. second class uniforming, Activity shirts, blue jeans and a variety of every excuse under the sun precludes the necessity of the uniform, With the message being said and the actions demonstrated, it just might be a good time to dump the uniform all together. The boys don't want to wear it and the adults don't need the hassle to trying to get them to. Nobody can afford them anymore, what with all the other expenses of school, church, and community organizations bidding for their free spending money. With a lot of changes going on in the BSA program, this might be just another in a long line already initiated. Stosh

Sewing 101 Basic back stitch: G F E D C B A Poke the needle in at A, come out at C. Poke the needle in at B, come out at D. Poke the needle in at C, come out at E. Just keep doing this until you run out of cloth. Making a cinch bag. 2 squares of cloth any size you want that are 1" too wide and 3" too long. Sew the sides and bottom with the back stitch 1/2" in from the edge. Fold down the open end 1" and back stich all the way around, except for 1". Stick a shoe lace into the sleeve, pull through with coat hanger, safety pin, or crochet hook. Turn inside out and you're done. If you use canvas cloth you have a storage bag, if you use mesh material, you have a mesh bag. The instructions for sewing are the same. If you use the mesh material, you can just dip the whole thing in boiling water when you're done cleaning it and hang in a tree to dry. A little more adventurous? take a piece of cloth fold in 1/2" on three sides iron down and sew on the outside of the bag for the utinsels. Sew a snap on the open end for a quick opening. For the real venturous, sew 1" wide "belt loops" on the bag. run a nylon belt through it or use a rope, and turn it into a compression sack. With the simple back stitch, heck, you could sew a whole tent. (if you had enough time on your hands. ) Stosh

Calico, good job. The Star Spangled Banner is the only US Flag with 15 stripes. I'm still trying to figure out which of the various US Flags was the real "Old Glory". I hadn't heard the 1908 story, thanks for filling me in. I also stand corrected on the verbiage of my first post. People did display the flag, but with all the abuses, the Code came out as a way of indicating proper respect in the civilian world. Stosh Found it! 24-Stars! "This famous name was coined by Captain William Driver, a shipmaster of Salem, Massachusetts, in 1831. As he was leaving on one of his many voyages aboard the brig CHARLES DOGGETT - and this one would climax with the rescue of the mutineers of the BOUNTY - some friends presented him with a beautiful flag of twenty four stars. As the banner opened to the ocean breeze for the first time, he exclaimed "Old Glory!" He retired to Nashville in 1837, taking his treasured flag from his sea days with him. By the time the Civil War erupted, most everyone in and around Nashville recognized Captain Driver's "Old Glory." When Tennesee seceded from the Union, Rebels were determined to destroy his flag, but repeated searches revealed no trace of the hated banner" (This message has been edited by jblake47)

The only problem I see with taking MB's multiple times is the scout that wants to take the Citizenship classes for the 8th time. Might want to have a friendly chat with their parents about the boy's psychological stability. Stosh

My "tradition" was every boy had to take Totin' Chit training every year. I know there is no "rule" requiring annual recertification, but it was expected by me. No one ever questioned it. I didn't cut any corners off the Totin' Chits (as is the "tradition" for many). Instead, I tore up their card and told them to take the class again. Obviously they hadn't learned enough in the previous class. With that being said, any new scout coming in from Cubs that had a Whittlin' Chit was allowed to carry a pocket knife until the first class for Totin' Chit rolled around, usually at summer camp. After that they could handle all woods tools that were covered in the class. It was expected of the acting SPL to work with the summer camp staff to have an evening of Totin' Chit training and CPR training for the troop. Boys that didn't go to summer camp were expected to get the training on their own if they wished to carry a knife and/or use camp tools. We had only three rules in our troop that could not be broken under any circumstance. The first rule was always, "Safety First!" Totin' Chits fell under this rule. The Totin' Chit and CPR were never mandatory, but if one wished to carry a knife, they needed a current card. Stosh Oh, by the way, the swim test was also part of this process, but no classes were organized by the SPL, he would march them all down to the waterfront at orientation and get that test knocked out. Any boy that didn't have that certification at summer camp was treated as a non-swimmer at all water activities. The SPL and TG would hold a swim test during the winter, just after the new boys came into the program and they could pass the swim test for a year. However, 6 months later it was expected that they take the test again at summer camp. Too much training/education is not a bad thing!(This message has been edited by jblake47)

I always felt uncomfortable with the election of POR's in the troop. For the most part they were a system of wearing a patch for 6 months to get credit for advancement whether they did any work or not. Instead, I had a different approach. The troop was

acco40 makes a good point. BSA and the boys can all be on the same page, but speaking from experience, once the parents get in there, things can go bad quickly. I was asked to leave as I was sitting with the boys in the third session of Hillcourt's training after the boys had just finished up JLT and TLT and was asked to leave as SM. The parents made it clear that the boys were being expected to do too much leadership in the troop and that as SM I wasn't doing enough. The troop was taken over by a parent who had 3 boys in the troop and a 4th in Cubs coming up. His oldest Eagled under my watch. It would seem the boy's wishes for the program take a back seat in the politics of parents. Stosh

I hear this exact same thing from the boys I visit with. Of course I hear a whole different story from the adults. I don't promote what I do because I think I know it all, I promote it because I see boys really wanting it. Stosh

Of course there were civilian flags made by people all over the nation. However, there were all kinds of way, traditions, etc. and nothing was being done the same. People who wanted buntings for example, simply cut up old flags, etc. Lots of "abuses" occurred. No one was doing it the same until the Code came out and prescribed the proper way to deal with the flag. Even the exact design of the flag wasn't prescribed until years later. The "Betsy Ross Flag" has been found not to have the stars in a circle, but in rows like they are today. Even with that being said, the original Code has been modified over the years. When Jim Thorpe (I think that's right) refused to dip the flag to Adolph Hitler during the opening ceremonies of the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin, that was introduced into the code at that point. It gets dipped to no one. The military still retains it's own protocol for flag display/usage. And now the trivia question of the day: What is unique about the Star Spangled Banner that inspired the National Anthem? Stosh

Hmmmm, your last post might be the key to the problem. If there are two NSP's, and yours is getting the heat, I would venture forth the idea that there might be a bit of jealousy on the part of the SPL. If he is an overbearing bully and no one wants to follow him, and your boys recognize real leadership and follow you, there's going to be problems. I'm sure the SM is (or at least should be) tuned in on the situation. If not, tune him in with a friendly chat. Stosh

As a woodsman with 55+ years experience in camping, hiking, etc. I find it rather interesting how the requirements for a certain skill only have to be demonstrated that the scout knows about it. Kinda like book learnin' the skills and retaining it for the semester test. I can tie a square knot, but do I know when to use it? I can start a fire, but do I know when and how to use the fire once it's started? The major problem I see with many of the advancements is the boy does the book learnin' but never develops the skills to use them later on. And as a secondary concern, simply learning them once does not mean that skill will be available later on after the passage of time unless that skill is reinforced through practice. BE PREPARED might be the BSA motto, but are these boys really prepared? More often than not, I see boys having to be bailed out by adults because they lack the skills to function in an outdoor environment. High Adventure outdoor environments require these skills even more and the boys are even less prepared. After 25+ years of running boys through the rapids of many rivers, to this day, I am the only adult who has always carried block and tackle, super sharp hand axe and belt knife. I have never had to cut a hole in an over turned canoe jammed in the rocks of a rapids, but I always carried the equipment and know-how to do so. I have had the occasion to "rescue" a kayaker who overturned in the middle of a large lake. Another kayak was attempting to get the first kayaker back into his boat. However the boy in the water and the kayaker in his tippy kayak could not pull the waterlogged kayak up far enough and then when they got half the water out, the boy couldn't get back in. I told him to get into the swamped kayak, handed him the pump off the front of my kayak and told him I'd be back in 15 minutes for the pump. Did I rescue this boy? Heck no, I just gave him a 2 minute lesson in being prepared the next time he goes out. Not many of the modern scouts I have today, have the were-with-all to put the book learning into practical application. There are a few that do, but not many. They got the rank badge, may have a bit of the knowledge, but without the skill, there is no such thing as BE PREPARED. Stosh

On this day in 1923, the US Congress authorized the display of the US flag by civilians and established the US Flag Code to recommend the proper procedure to respecfully display the flag, show respect for the flag and how to properly address the flag with the Pledge of Allegiance. The national anthem was not part of the original code because it had not yet been established. The National Anthem, "Star Spangled Banner" was officially recognized in 1931. Up until 1923, the US flag was displayed only by the military on it's installations and naval vessels. The US government displayed it on all public buildings, i.e. post offices, schools, courts, etc. Civilians were not allowed to display the flag on private property. Stosh

I have never been a fan of elected officers in any organization. First of all, too many of them are elected because of popularity and everyone knows how well that works out. Then there are the magnificent managers who in many respects have many of the same skills of a bully. Then there are the boys who learn leadership from the ground up. The enter into the program and learn at as TF what the buddy system really means. When his buddy can't find his necker in the mess of his tent, he's there to help. When his buddy needs a partner to escort him to the latrine, he's there to help. When his buddy needs special assistance in being reminded to take his meds at camp, he's there to help. Then after a while, this boy begins the process of watching out for others besides his buddy. He takes on camp chores because someone needs to do it and he just does it. He makes sure everyone has what they need and if someone is short a plate at dinner, he shares his mess kit with them. Then he takes on PL and "officially" watches out for the whole patrol, making sure they all are in the game. Naturally he shares his leadership skills by emphasizing the buddy system amongst his boys. Eventually he is "promoted" into SPL because he is well aware of all the needs of the patrol, he can now focus his attention on helping the other PL's be successful. Yes, he starts looking out for his buddy, but eventually his skills develop that expands his focus and management awareness automatically. Everyone learns differently and by knowing his boys, he can adapt whatever it takes to make sure his boys get the education they need. This model may not be what BSA promotes, but after working with kids for 40+ years, it works for me, your mileage may vary. Stosh

Go through the proper process. Get her name/address/insurance company. Call the police to get an official police report. Give her the name of the troop and CC. Once she has done all that her insurance company can come and ask for a settlement. After all she may have sufficient coverage that the windshield will be paid in full by the insurance company. Let them do their job. Anyone not agreeing with following proper procedures should be eyed with a bit of suspicion. Even if one of the boys did break the windshield, it is to be handled by the adults. If the boy is responsible, he can pay back the troop once all the dust has settled. Stosh