Stosh

As long as none of the funds are earmarked for 3-year CD's at .25% interest, I think you are good to go.

"Me as well", is what I think you are going for.

Hmmm.... put the money in a secure bag, take off the uniform, holster one's conceal carry weapon, head for the bank.

Cub packs with $10,000+ in CD's is what I am talking about. And why would a Cub program need a trailer. Yes, I've a small troop, but somehow, the boys seem to do well with the finances. They are eager to do fundraisers because they know how important the money is to the things they want to do. When, or if, they ever decide that the back of my pickup isn't big enough and want a trailer, then they can address setting aside money for it or finding another parent who has a pickup to help out. They also have the opportunity to rent a trailer as needed and incorporate the cost into the budget of the activity. Saving up money is but one option, there's others out there that can widen the boy's understanding of finances as part of their scouting career (A Scout is Thrifty). One of the most important life lessons my boys get is paying one's own way. Mom and Dad aren't going to be there forever to get you your latest wish. Sometimes one has to roll up their sleeves and work for it up front. My parents bought my Scout Uniform. I paid for everything else from my own money I worked for and yes, I worked before it was legal. I have tax records from 1962 when my parents taught me how to file my taxes.

Yeah but, yeah but, yeah but there's 2 great white sharks in the upper Mississippi!!!

My approach is the same one I use personally with the exception of saving for retirement. Yes, I have a huge retirement reserve to last me the rest of my life. On the other hand, I own two houses, one that I live in, one that my daughter lives in and pays rent. I have 5 cars. I have 5 kayaks and lots of "toys" to play with. .... and yet I have not taken out a loan on any of them except the first house I bought 40 years ago ($61,500), student loans ($1500) and the first car I needed for work ($1500). I saved up specifically for everything else. That is not the same thing as saving up for a "rainy day" which is undesignated savings, usually under the disguise of CD investments that can't be touched for a year or two at times. This is not the same thing as having a HA account, or a trailer account, or special activity accounts that may come up. Those accounts are not emergency accounts, those are designated for specific activities the boys may come up with. Nothing wrong with that. Having money in an "emergency fund" for the sake of having an "emergency fund" is nothing more than money set aside for the boys not to use for activities and programs. In real life, sometimes instant gratification isn't always an option. And by the way, the money ain't the unit's anyway. Does the CO know about the money that's not being spent on the boys? By the way (I'll play the Devil's Advocate here, too) For these last minute "emergencies" one could also ask the parents to pay for the trips or the CO for the trailer repair. After all, it's their trailer. Yes, the boys have "borrowed" funds from me in a true emergency (happened twice in 40 years) and they paid me back without a problem. If they didn't I'd have taken it as a donation on my taxes. No big deal. And no, it does not teach them to live paycheck to paycheck, it teaches them to quit hoarding money that may never be needed at the expense of programs and activities.

There are those that like bling and those that don't. Hard to please both at the same time. There are those that work hard at advancement and awards and those that don't. Hard to please both at the same time. Then there are those that adhere to the rules with every "t" crossed and "i" dotted and others that do a mere pencil whip. BSA has no control over that (other than doing better at making communication explicitly clear.) When things come on the forum, they are all opened to everyone to express their views on the issues, not on the person making the comment. In this thread I really can't find anyone doing that intentionally or even indirectly, except maybe those aimed at National. But then that's directed to the organization, not anyone in particular. Like Eagle 94-A1, if my comments fall into that category, my apologies. I do know at times things I post can be read in ways I never intended them to be.

Such a limited focus on this would make it more feasible to just have a custom patch made for the situation. When we went to the BWCA with two troops, one experienced, one wanting to learn, we made up the patches and ordered them. We also went with silk-screened baseball caps, neckers and t-shirts. It added t the cost, but none of the boys balked at it. Even found two wooden canoe paddles and wood-carved the event, troop numbers and councils and all the names of the participants to hang in their scout room back home. Welcome to the forum.

@Eagle94-A1 is so correct with this, it's scary. It is exactly what I was going to respond. I have a pair of military surplus jungle boots I have worn for multiple trips to BWCA and any canoeing and kayaking I still do today. The boots are probably 40 years old, not have a lick of polish left, but they are still my got-to boots for water craft. Not only do they lace up well above the ankles so they don't get sucked off in the mud, but the soles will take the beating of the rocks on the portages. Stepping into unknown water with rocky bottoms invites the twisted ankles. These boots handle it all. The nylon mesh drains the water out nicely. I have no idea on the name brands mentioned. Mine were $20 at the military surplus store. I have no idea what company was under contract to make them for the soldiers, but to this day, they are still being used.

Please explain in PM, I'm not seeing this.

@Back Pack, as mentioned in my previous post the boys run the program and that includes the issue of finances. At their age, "There ain't no wisdom." They generally have the attention span of a gnat. But when it becomes apparent there is a need for something that needs to be bought, they step up and get it done. They all know that scouting costs money and either they are going to get the neighborhood to help out or they're going to need to dig deeper into their pockets to make it happen. Fall back savings can sometimes promote the idea that there's some free money out there. It's not a good precept to promote. This is their money, they raised it and they need to be spending it on a program that they benefit from. Generating savings for the troop means money they won't have when the adults tell them it's no longer theirs, it's the bank's. It always amuses me when a scouter says, "We have money in the bank for that sort of thing." No, WE, do not! It's not the adult's money, it belongs to the boys who raised it. That's what thrifty is. Maybe next time I'm around, give me a heads up on the fact that one is going to trigger a reaction. "THE BOYS have money in the bank for that sort of thing. They can figure it out what needs to be done with it." I have yet to run into a scout that says, "Let's do a big fundraiser so we have money in the bank for a rainy day!!" Nope, we find that many of our outings are rainy days.

I have a brand new troop, less than 4 years old now. We just paid off our fees for summer camp. Each boy is expected to pay $50 so he has skin in the game for the event. Camp costs about $260 for the week. We now have about $300 in the unit's bank account. When we get back from camp, we have fundraisers planned to cover the cost of the fall camporee. Popcorn sales promotion starts next month as well. Yes, one can run a unit on "just enough to get by". If something disastrous happens to our equipment, we'll scrounge around for more hand-me-downs or do a fundraiser. Right now we have tents, sleeping bags, and backpacks for every boy in the troop, 4 propane stoves, too. They are all hand-me-downs from other troops that upgraded their equipment. When the boys realize that duct tape patching of tents doesn't always hold out water, either they are going to be excited about fundraising new tents or bring one from home. Either way works. When they are boy led, they are all in the know about the financial situation we face with no extra funds to fall back on. They take very good care of the equipment they have and are the ones to initiate the discussion on equipment and program needs. Last year one of my boys won a big screen TV from the council for being the top salesman for the popcorn sales. He basically paid enough out of those funds to insure all the boys in the patrol made it to summer camp this year. He's the PL and he takes care of his boys. The unit is located in a depressed area of town and there's not much when it comes to having money in the families to pay for scouting, but the neighborhood is very good about understanding this and our fundraisers tend to be very successful. Right now, how many scouts in your unit know exactly how much money is in the unit's bank account? In my troop they all do. They also know how many boys are in the troop. How many are going to summer camp and how much money they will need to raise to make it happen. Just this last meeting, we were discussing the last minute details for summer camp. One of the boys asked how many vehicles we will need and whether the adults were expecting to get paid for gas money. Both the ASM and I said we were planning on donating the fuel costs to the trip because the camp provides for 2 adults to come at no cost for the week. I was impressed with the question the boy asked because it showed the sensitivity they all possess on the financial issues in the troop and it wasn't restricted to just the boys. It was funny at the spring camporee, one of the tent's zipper wasn't working and the boys couldn't get it zipped shut. They were worried about bugs. It was a Civil War theme for the event and I was sleeping on the ground in a pup tent with no ends and no screening. They brought this issue to my attention while I was sitting in front of my tent. I looked back over my shoulder at my tent, then at them, smiled and said, "Figure it out or suck it up, cupcake." They both laughed and that was the last I heard about the tent with the broken zipper. NEVER underestimate what a scout can handle once they realize they need to be as responsible for everyone in the patrol/troop as the adults are. It what makes them adults as well. If something happens to all the scout gear, they will be the ones that are going to deal with it, it's their troop and they know it.

I gotta do better with my sarcasm. Spending week after week teaching boys to tie up chairs is really stupid. They need to be out in the woods tying those knots on tents. "Mr. Stosh, did I tie that knot correctly?" "I dunno, let's wait until the next thunderstorm hits and we'll see how wet you'll get." As I mentioned before, at summer camp the boys used the wooden line tighteners that have the two holes in them. All the boys' tents went down in a thunderstorm and soaked everything they had. The leaders' tents were all still standing. After a quick lesson on doing it right, all the boys could then do double half-hitches and taunt-line hitches in their sleep. There's no way to teach that except at a campout. After that they paid more attention to the other requirements as well.

I guess it all depends on what part of the country. Up in the northland where I live, the opportunity to ski is just during the summer months. The shortened time allows for lesser risk of insurance litigation. However, down south where the skiing season is longer, the only stipulation that BSA forgot to add to the requirement is the observer needs a fishing license in case they get picked up for trolling for alligators.

Sorry, @qwazse, you just don't get it. Mastery of outdoor skills in the classroom setting, an environment more conducive to the style of education they are used to, verses going out and mastering the skills in the environment in which they are supposed to be used. I have boys that are masters of tying up chairs, door knobs, and water faucets and yet they can't tie down a tent or put op a dining fly. That opportunity has to wait until all the chairs, door knobs and faucets are mastered first. Is it any wonder why boys have a tendency to tie other scouts to trees? It's the only thing they know how to do.

They run the surveys to determine the percentage of people they can tick off and get away with it. It's all part of their business model.

All three meals at the camp we attend involve cooking. Even with young inexperienced scouts we didn't have a problem.... except for Monday the grilled cheese sandwiches were cheese sandwiches. Didn't kill them, but they learned a good lesson about not goofing off when they were supposed to be cooking.

When I was a kid I did a ton of water skiing. We had an established protocol. 1) Driver did not watch the skier 2) Observer sat in the boat backwards and did nothing but watch the skier. 3) If the skier went down. raise a ski to signal they are okay. 4) Observer reels in the tow rope while the driver goes back to the skier 5) While the boat circles 15-20' away from the skier, the observer throws the tow rope in the vicinity of the skier making sure not to hit them. 6) The circling boat will draw the line to the skier. 7) Any time the boat gets less than 15' from skier, kill switch is hit. never had a problem

I give out my phone number and camp's phone number in case of an emergency and they need to get in touch with their son. Otherwise, I tell them no phone calls, I have enough problems with homesickness, I don't need the hassle. I've never had a problem with this setup, especially when I remind them that if they do and it causes a problem, they can come pick up their son at 2:00 am when he has a melt down. Camp's a 2 hour drive one way.

One can reasonably predict the reactions of people. Make a change and all fur will fly because they know they can't make any difference. Suggest a change and all will fur will fly until the cat's dead because until it becomes effective, their comments, preferences, likes and dislikes will be aired up until the last minute...254 posts will attest to that. I remember my Finance professor in college saying 56 years ago that General Motors is too big to fail. Our tax money was spent to uphold that myth. Never say never.

Unfortunately we have very little control over what goes on between parent and their child. Making suggestions are useful, but hard to enforce.

Age boundaries? They are arbitrary and useless in most cases. I know of a lot of 14 year old adults and 40 year old children.

When it comes to marketing, branding is everything. We see it all the time even with WB. I can't serve on WB, even though I have 2 beads. I was "allowed" to serve on a Jambo contingent only because they wanted a pre-21 Century WBer on the staff. Internally we all experience the differences, out in the "real" world, BSA has even less control over the opinions of others.

I understand this, but there's more to palms than just racking up little round patches on a sash. There's POR and time commitments that go along with it. While the boy might have attained Life at age 15, all he really needs to do after his 6 month POR is sit on his butt and let the clock run. Instead he could be working on "palms" with additional PORs and contributing to the troop BEFORE he gets his Eagle rather than getting the Eagle and then going after palms. If, perchance, the boy does additional POR after the requisite 6 months and before Eagle, it counts for nothing. Might as well just go after the MB's because other wise it won't count until after Eagle anyway. By the way, I am a firm believer in separating MB palm awards from rank advancement. The 21 MB's for Eagle should count for advancement, but beyond 21, they should be counted as awards, not rank. I think the 21 MB's for Eagle should be the only ones credited towards advancement, no electives unless they are for palm awards.

A scout does an Eagle project under the supervision of a larger program all the time. The beneficiary in any project is an existing program. They might make a foot bridge for a Parks & Rec trail, they might organize a food drive for a food bank, they might do a blood drive, etc. If the Rotary wants a day off and the scout does the activity for the day, it would be the same as giving the Parks & Rec people the day off so they don't have to build a bridge. The day activity project would definitely involve more than just showing up and helping out with the campers. Organizing and running a craft or activity for all the campers would require a great bit of planning and developing and there's no way he's going to be able to pull that off by himself with every participant a special needs camper. I for one would think it would be more of an effort for an Eagle project than many of the one's I've seen approved by the council in my area.