Stosh

There is a technique for getting around one of the issues mentioned previously. I use whatever color I grab in the drawer for sewing on patches. It doesn't need to match or be invisible. I position the patch and staple/pin into place to hold it. Just underneath the patch grab a small bit of fabric, go down 1/16th of an inch and run the needle through 2-3 embroidery threads along the edge of the badge. Go straight down into the fabric and then down 1/16th of an inch and repeat the process. Don't go too far underneath the patch so as to pucker the fabric and keep the thread inside the strands of embroidery. Totally invisible. Sewing on a pocket/sleeve? Hand won't fit? Put a pocket notebook or pocket protector inside and sew away! On a sleeve, roll up newspaper/magazine and slip into sleeve and let it unwind to pull the fabric smooth. Away you go! I found that if I start out with needle and thread (any thread) and run a race against someone that has a sewing machine and needs to run bobbin thread one color and the top thread another, position and pin, and sew the pocket shut, I can still get it done right, faster and when I'm done, no stitches of any sort show. Stosh

Moose, No, that comment didn't come off the wires of any current political spin. But I have been told for 40 years of struggling that there's an easier way if you look to Uncle Sam for help. I have endured a lot of ridicule over the years for trying to make it on my own, paying my own way, helping others and being "too proud" to take a government handout when it's free for the taking. I am a success in ways that society never defines as such. I haven't made a million in my lifetime, but I was interrogated by the bank a few years back because when I applied for a loan I listed all my assets and debts. The debts totaled $0 and they thought I was hiding something. Having worked in the financial world off and on, I have been chided for not borrowing money to make money and when all is said and done, I own my own home, and with a house completely paid for, I can move into my Golden Years with enough money to retire without Social Security because I have believed all along that it wasn't going to be there when I retired anyway. That may come to pass any way. I've never looked to the government other than the standard government services over the years of which I have always paid taxes on, and yet seen especially in today's society as somewhat of a anomaly and not very often in positive terms. Mitt's comments however, did kind of ring a bell and did make me feel better that there are some out there that are beginning to see what I've seen all along. Stosh

Moose, Just read what I wrote, not what you think I meant. While a few have stated they knew of one or two on welfare because of economic tough times, well I've met more than my share of those who are third generation welfare recipients. They felt they were entitled to it. Yep, we all face economic tough times, been there done that, but I never considered going on the dole. I took a $h|t job before I took a welfare check. I've done the slinging burgers, delivering fliers and newspapers house to house, and spent a fair amount of time at the temp agencies waiting day after day in the lobby until a job opened up. Does that make me more honorable than the next guy? Probably not. By today's standards that would be considered quite stupid to take a $200 a week job when I can make more money on the dole. Every job I got lead to a better one. Only once did a temp agency job not turn into a full time permanent job. But I wasn't home drawing dole, I was out looking for any work I could find. I have relatives making twice as much as me, with half the education, working for the federal government. Another stupid choice on my part since all of them have retired on fat pensions and I'm still working. All I was saying was I still prefer the opportunity to go after the American Dream and that process is getting harder and harder to do in today's society where one is demonized for success or thought the fool for thinking success came from work, not the government. I'm 60+ years old and no income check I have ever received came from the government. I live the American Dream, but I am also becoming a very small part of our society. Stosh

The American Dream is based on the pride of the individual being able to create himself/herself into what was formerly referred to as a "self-made man". (Yeah, I know it's not PC, but you get the idea.) There is no such Dream in a socialist country. The only opportunity one has is determined by the powers that be and not on the inspiration, ingenuity, and determination of the individual. No "self-made man" ever considered getting on welfare as an option. Being on the dole used to be an embarrassment, not a badge of honor as it is today. Stosh

I have always had two boys to a tent whether the tent is 2 man or 4 man. 4 man offers a bit more room but encourages a problem of packs in tents and being rough on the floors. 4 man also adds weight to the backpacking populace. When I was a kid in scouts the patrols all had huge canvas wall tents where everyone could fit in. Lot more social, but room was still a problem. Some of the scouts preferred their own 2 man tents and would opt to use them instead. A lot of this discussion would be resolved if one were to decide whether they are backpackers or ploppers. One could easily plop camp with backpacking tents, but would find it impossible to backpack with family sized tents. I have both kinds of tents and plan my activities accordingly. However, the troops aren't financially equipped to have that option. I'd go with the 2 man/4 man tent option, with preference towards 2 boys in a 4 man tent. For backpacking, the one boy takes the tent, the other poles and fly. Even the 4 man tents are doable if broken down like that and if it is a serious backpack trip, 4 boys could use one tent and other gear spread out to the boys not carrying shelter. Stosh

A TG would go a long way in assisting with this situation. I'm not ready to call it a problem. One of the major obstacles to a boy-led program is the ability of the adults to accept failure. When the boys screw up, it reflects bad on the adults and "their" program goals. Scouters who don't like pure NSP's are generally unable to accept the very strong possibility that for a while these boys are going to struggle. They don't know the program, they don't know the traditions, and they don't know what the heck is going on. A good TG can walk them through their initial sticker shock of the BSA program. Had the PL/APL been picked because they could lead, and not because they held a rank and needed a POR, maybe things would be a bit easier with more planning and evaluation by the adults and not putting unqualified boys into difficult situations. That in itself goes a long way towards a successful event. I found that effective After Activity Reviews(AAR) go a long way to assist the boys in resolving the problems that arise. At these AAR's, the SM/TG/Patrol Adviser can assist the boys with suggestions for next time. This might be the time to suggest the check off lists, storing menus that were good, itemizing gear, etc. Some of the best learning experiences have been in evaluating failures. Too often, failures end in screaming and shouting and little is focused on making sure the boys have an opportunity to learn and grow. Stosh

I "prep" all my Eagle candidates before their BOR. It is not a mock BOR nor do I offer any suggestions as to what to say to be effective. My last two candidates got the same comments from me and both BORs were as different as night and day. One boy followed my suggestions to a tee and was asked 4 questions by the BOR, the other boy chose to do his own thing and ended up with 23 questions. Both boys had acceptable BORs. What it boils down to in the long run is that each boy does his own thing and just relaxes he shouldn't have a problem. With the EAGLE BOR hanging over boys, it's a wonder that they don't all have anxiety attacks before they get into the room. It shouldn't have to be this way. Stosh

To show true respect it must come from the heart. Demanding someone to remove a hat to show respect is not appropriate. As Shortridge states, maybe stopping to put a hat ON might be a better example of respect if that is the personal belief of that person. For me, I remove my hat before entering a building. I never eat with a hat on whether in indoors or outdoors. But that's my situation. Not everyone follows those principles, nor do I expect them to. I see myself as a tolerant person that is offended by zero-tolerance policies, because more often than not it paints people into corners that they can't gracefully exit out of. If that happens, just put on the dunce cap and sit quietly. Maybe it's time for camp staff to show a bit of respect to the scouts that pay to come to their facilities for summer fun. And to add a bit of fuel to the fire, is it hazing if they don't remove their hats and have to be embarrassed in front of their friends? Kinda of a thin line running through this discussion. Stosh

Every boy is taught that their first aid kit should include a bar of soap for cleaning wounds. I always used summer camp to use up my old bar and put a new one in each year. That way I didn't have the boys doing a number on a single bar of troop/patrol soap. When I needed to wash up in the morning, I had my own bar of soap, when I went to the shower, I had my own bar of soap, when I got ready for meals, I had my own bar of soap. When it got dropped in the dirt, it was my own fault, but if rinsed off right away it isn't a major problem. A Scout is Clean. That Law should be as important as A Scout is Trustworthy. Stosh

Obviously there are pros and cons on this subject and we'll discuss it ad nauseum. However, for those that want that kind of excitement at dinner time, they can choose summer camps with mess halls. For those that prefer the back-to-nature kind of experience where loud noises, bright colors and trash are considered pollution, go with the camps where patrol cooking in the campsites are the norm. For me personally, when I go "back to nature" I avoid the loud, noisy environments which I experience every day and go with the more relaxed quietude of being in the woods where I can hear the birds, the steams and the wind in the trees. To each his own. There's a time and place for everything, the choices we make should reflect the kind of time and place one prefers. Sometimes I like the din of the crowd at a Packer/Viking football game and then there are times I like to soak a worm in a slow moving stream while munching on a PBJ sandwich. I guess when all is said and done, when I'm in a back-to-nature mood, I don't really want to be interrupted with raucous noise for the sake of raucous noise. I really do prefer sitting around a cook fire chatting with the boys about their MB classes and camp experience at patrol-level meal times. But then no one cheers on the boys at camporee competitions more than I do when those times roll around. Stosh

Soap and water works great too. There's usually plenty of that around. I found that if used diligently, a bar will last the whole week! Stosh

National statistics on safety indicate that out of 330 unsafe activities 300 will not result in any unjury, 29 will, and one will result in death. The choice is yours, Play the odds or play it safe. Stosh

When I am in major bug areas I use leg wraps. Original boy scouts used them and they serve a purpose. Yes they are hot in warm weather, but the trade off is worth it. It also keeps out the ticks that come from the ground. You're on your own for ticks on tall bushes. Long sleeves and duct tape the cuffs. Necker also helps, but they are pretty persistant and occasionally one will get through the defenses. I'm not into the use of chemicals. Stosh

Road trip in a car with A/C. Wife and I had nice dinner at a Chinese buffet. Off to bed early, we have 2 Mondays this week. Stosh

Awwwe. You guys got off easy. I had one scout wake up screaming at top of lungs in the middle of the night. I shot out of bed and out of the tent to get a glimpse of him heading off through the woods at about 100 mph. Here's the mystery. I was tore to shreds trying to keep up with him, hitting every tree in the woods at least once. I finally caught up to him and he calmed down and we walked back to camp and he didn't say a word. I figured it would be better to talk in the morning when things looked better in the light of day. The next morning he didn't remember any of it, and didn't have a scratch on him. Me, on the other hand,... Stosh

Personal, (not scientific) results of reenacting in heavy, lined wool uniforms and keeping on your feet.... 112 degrees, no shade, and as captain of the unit I am responsible for the welfare of the men. In 15 years of reenacting I have had only one go down on me and he was a fit 25-year old Eagle scout who followed all the directions properly. He drank the right amount of water but he still went down. His body got to the point where it just couldn't handle the heat and couldn't reverse itself. Ice packs and Gatorade brought him back in an hour. At the big national events, one may go 2-3 hours without a water source and then it's usually packed by hundreds of guys trying to fill a 2 qt. canteen with a 1/2" opening. I always carry 2 of them. I have found that a hat packed with ice and Gatorade works better than just water if one wishes to bounce back quickly. If I can make it on 2 canteens in 2 hours, I can stretch that to 3 hours with Gatorade. I was a water only guy for a long time, until I came back after a long march and heavy battle scenario and I was planning on about a 2 hour recoup. Someone gave me a packet of Gatorade and I mixed it into my tin cup filled with water and chugged it down. Within 15-20 minutes I was back to normal. (with me normal is a relative term, if I was really normal I wouldn't be out there doing such things at my age.) I now carry Gatorade packets all the time. Now at least I can carry a flavor I can tolerate. Stosh

Golly, gee, I thought I was getting away with murder when I took my camp shower, bag black one side, clear the other, filled with water, laid in the sun, hung on the tent pole and catch a shower in the wall tent at the end of the day. If you didn't waste the water, you could also catch a warm spray for morning freshening up. Stosh

In my troop the highest ranking officer was the PL. He is the heart and soul of the patrol-method, boy-led program. As a matter of fact, all boys should be trained to be PL. Then they will be able best support those in that position. Everyone in the troop "works for" the PL's. Otherwise if the PL's "work for" someone else, obviously they don't have a patrol-method program. Stosh

As you are finding out, training adults in a boy-led program is more difficult than training the boys. Stosh

Now Obama can lay claim to the highest level of debt in American history AND the highest tax increase in American history. He has acquired the banking system, the automotive market, the medical market and he's still got a couple of months left to see what else he can amass for the government. 80% of the people have health care. Why didn't he just help the 20% instead of screwing over the 80% to help the 20%? Democratic economics 101. Ever wonder what's going to happen to all those insurance company people when they lose their jobs? This is like looking into the abyss. Stosh

In a critically dangerous situation, I have two important options to defend myself. Reach in my pocket, pull open my BSA whittler pocket knife and proceed to defend myself. Or I can take the pen/pencil out of my pocket and be just as effective. And BTW, in a fair, equality for all people, tolerant of others society, aren't "zero-tolerance" policies an oxy-moron? Zero-tolerance policies teach our children intolerance is acceptable and often times preferred. No more need for the court system, the policy takes care of the bad people in the world. However, do the policies really stop people? or do they just show the stupidity of those making the rules when situations arise? I'm thinking it's not good timing on the part of the teacher trying to break up a knife fight in the school hallway by reminding the two fighters that there's a zero-tolerance policy on knives. Stosh

Basementdweller, That's why I put my roster of attendees, every boy had his dad, 2 leaders, trained in Cubbing and Boy Scouts, and extra scouts and we didn't need a tour permit we were within 5-7 miles of our meeting place. The point I wanted to make is that one does not need to go far to make adventures for Webelos boys. A lot of the boys and their dads had never been camping/fishing, but might have put up a play tent in the back yard once or twice. This experience, took away the backyard feeling and yet was still in the back yard. Every wife had a tour plan and knew where their husband/son was and the DL/ADL's wives did too. The parents of the two scouts knew all about it when we were leaving, when we would get back, etc. As a matter of fact, I drive to work from one end of town to the other further than this travel/tour took place. for some of these boys, the 10-15 minute paddle over to the island was a thrill. Novice dads paddling might have thought otherwise. For these boys, the imagination and memories are more grandiose than reality. You are correct, cubites probably wouldn't have planned such a trip, nor would they be qualified. The council thought the trip was great and recommended it to others if they thought they would be up to it. If Troop185 has experience with such activities, it's a great resource for others in their council to bounce off ideas for trips of their own. Stosh

When I was a Webelos leader, I did a similar outing that proved to be a memorable experience for the boys as Barry indicates. There is a large island in the middle of a local lake (about 5 miles from the meeting place). It did have a couple of primitive campsites left by other boaters over the years. But a 20 minute paddle out to the island with primitive camping was exciting for these boys. Later in life, they compared that weekend to their Philmont experience. 12 boys - all had dads with them. DL and ADL 2 ad hoc TG/DC scouts to help out. Dads were not allowed to interfere with the boy's tasks *. They only watched for safety issues, i.e. no one within 15' of the water without a life jacket, etc. The boys did their own meal planning, did their own cooking and did all the clean up afterwards. This included even the dads' cups and plates. * Activities included canoeing, swimming, and fishing, all of which needed to be with a buddy and their buddy was their dad. Some of the dads had never fished before, but had a great time downing worms with their son. There were projects that needed to be done. Dig latrine, put up dining fly, etc. roster was in the boy's name, but they could ask their dads for assistance, not in doing, but in helping with the heavy lifting if necessary. There was a mini-camporee style competition that the dads were not involved in, but help run. Fire-building, first aid, etc. One family had a huge "circus tent" that all the boys slept in for the night, dads had to fend for themselves. At 10:00 pm, the tent was closed, but the boys could stay up as long as they wanted, or for however long their flashlights held out. The adults went out to the campfire and we realized a storm was rolling in. We hunkered down and ended up with everyone getting drenched. The boys all had dry clothes after the storm passed (Zip-Lock training). Dad's didn't fare as well. Everyone had a fantastic time, even the dads who had never camped/fished before (and probably never will again!!!!) I would not have attempted such an event 1) unless the boys all had their dads with them, 2) 2 extra experienced Boy Scouts 3) 2 trained Webelos leaders with Boy Scout experience 4) within 10 minutes of being "rescued" had anything seriously gone wrong. The nice thing about this age, a great adventure doesn't have to involve a lot of risk, just imagination and these kids had plenty of that. The sad thing about this event was there two dads that made the comment that they liked the event because it was the first time they had done something without the family, just him and his son. It's too bad they waited 10 years to figure this out. Stosh

What is the lesson being taught. 1) The adults are running the show. Leadership for youth is an illusion. 2) The adults are allowing bullying from the pet scouts. You'll need to suck up to the SM if you ever want to be an SPL and boss others around and make them do pushups. 3) It's time to move on to a troop that teaches servant leadership, cooperation, and where you will learn to do more than run around the building and do pushups. Stosh

As I stated in another post.... "Be careful" vs. "How high can you climb" Stosh