Stosh

I never viewed palms as any sort of rank advancement, neither were MB's they were merely requirements for advancement. Palms are awarded beyond the highest rank (Eagle) as awards based mainly on more required MB's. It wouldn't bother me one bit if there were or were not BOR's held for them, but they should be optional like all BOR's except for rank. Palms are not rank. By the way everyone runs around saying Eagle is the highest rank. Then is Eagle with 1 palm higher? Nope.

There are SMC's for a variety of reasons, only the SMC rank requirement is needed for rank advancement. There are BOR's for a variety of reasons, only the BOR rank requirement is needed for rank advancement. I really don't see a problem with the way it's set up. If a SM want's a SMC for any reason he can call one. Same for the scout. Iif the committee wants a BOR for any reason they can call one, too. Same for the scout. Am I missing something or is this too far out in left field?

With my new troop, all Webelos cross-overs a couple of months earlier, one boy did get the Scout Rank. He was the SPL for the one patrol of new boys and dd just fine. Ya go with whatcha got.

By the way one can get a bit creative with the trading. Boys trade with boys, Adults trade with adults. I wore a reproduction 1910 uniform with all the correct buttons and collar brass and Smoky hat with correct SM pin on it. My SPL wore a 1960's uniform with all the correct patches, mule-eared pocket pants and campaign hat. Any boy in full uniform that wanted a pitcture of 1910-1960-2010 could pose with us for a patch. My SPL took in a lot of patches to trade elsewhere for what he wanted. Surprisingly, not many scouts were in uniform, but when they found out what we were doing, they found theirs really quickly.

That's how I got my historic AOL patch for my 1960's uniform, traded for it at the Centennial Jamob.

As mentioned the NLAS deals with more than the BSA. Not all of them are single sex programs. 4-H and Campfire USA are both co-ed. The religious emblem program is not limited to the BSA only. As long as long as they don't care whether a male or female earns the award, I have no idea why they would want to publish this newsletter other than to stir the pot. The newsletter does not really identify, nor does it's website, the different Lutheran partners. ELCA, ultra liberal, and LC-MS, moderate are listed but LC-MS is no longer associated with the BSA. That leaves the ELCA as sole representative of the "Lutheran" world. Sorry to say, but they aren't in reality.

Welcome to the forum!! Over the years my troops have handled it 4 different ways. 1) Large troop, no patrol method, SM assigns who's going to be SPL. 2) Smaller troop, 3 patrols, the PL's decided among themselves who would be designated SPL because we didn't need one except for council activities and summer camp. 3) Bigger troop, 4 patrols, the PL's selected best APL in the troop to serve as SPL. We were using the patrol method and the PL's felt they were too busy with their patrols to take on the support work of the SPL (PL's are the highest ranking officers in the troop. This is not normal BSA structure, but the boys liked it that way so I didn't get involved. It worked just fine. 4) Small troop, just starting out. 1 patrol, PL took on SPL responsibility and APL "filled in" and ran the patrol when the PL was dong SPL responsibilities. For me, there is no one answer to this question. I varies depending on the troop culture and size. Without sounding like I'm giving you the brush-off, why not have the boys make this decision after passing some of these comments from the forum on to them. It might go a long way to promote the patrol method and the boys can take ownership of the process and decision.

Aw, come on now. I paid less than $150k for my 9 acre hobby farm and with 8 acres of woods for hunting, flower beds for the wife 20' in all directions of the house, and an acre of garden space, 3 bedroom house, the Mrs. and I can feel the cramp.

There are very few things on this forum that any of us can all agree on, but in this situation, any life lessons on taking on one's own responsibility to mature and develop character seems to be unanimous. In this case, one needs to learn from an early age to understand the value of limited financial resources. It's a lesson that will challenge him throughout his life. This is a very safe way to start that process. If one wants something, save up and budget for it in plans. I'm sure he'll do fine and when it comes to souvenirs, if he has unlimited "dad's" money, it won't be evaluated as to the real cost to one's own pocketbook. If dad handed me $50 it spends a lot differently than if I had to mow a few neighborhood yards in the hot sun $50. Learning to tie the different knots might have a bit of value to your son in his adult life, but there won't be a day that the lessons in finance come into play. Best of luck to your son's adventure at Jambo, it's going to be a fantastic opportunity for his scouting career!

https://blogs.lcms.org/2015/boy-scouts-of-america-update The NLAS, Inc. is a company that provides religious Awards resource materials to the various youth organzations, GS-USA, BSA, 4-H, AHG and Campfire, USA. "We are a resource for youth and adults who wish to know more about the religious emblems program, endorsed by the Lutheran Churches for members of Boy Scouts of America, Girl Scouts USA, American Heritage Girls, 4H and Camp Fire USA." Obviously they are going beyond their scope of business to blog this information. After all, they'll sell religious resource materials to anyone who wants to buy it.

I started working at age 11 doing the mowing, shoveliing, etc. Then on to paper route and by the time I was old enough to qualify for any Jamboree, I was washing windows at the library. I budged my funds, had plenty in the bank did my own taxes, contributed to my church and my parents would never have asked this question. They knew I knew how much money I had to spend at a Jambo or any other event I wanted to go to..

Not a problem, by then I will have 50+ years of scouting in and I'll be able to say it was all in the Boy Scouts of America. Co-ed for me will be me and the Mrs. doing extended hiking, camping and kayaking at places where we decide, not a bunch of boys.

My three year old granddaughter knows her name, her address, how old she is, her Mommy's real name and Daddy's real name and is working on the phone number now. ..... She's 3 years old and being home-schooled. Somethings are really important to know. All the names for the Pokeman characters isn't one of them.

We have a very sturdy footbridge across a ravine at our local council camp. On our first outing (new troop) I told the boys they should cross it one at a time because of the weight limit. Now, over the years, my boys cross one at a time even though everyone else goes right on over. Somehow they have never figured it out or too scared to question it. Either way, it still brings a smile to my face that they would listen to me about bridges and nothing else.

Making Scouting Accessible for Families? Well, I think this is a totally awesome idea. Mom and Dad, and Step-Dad, and Step-Mom and Grandma and Grandpa and Step-Grandma and Step-Grandpa (all 8 of them) and then one goes to the cousins, step-couusins and all the aunts, uncles, step-aunts and step uncles that are attached to them. Toss in any Great-Aunts and Great-Uncles. ... almost forgot my iinclusive accessibility Then we get the siblings and step siblings. Of course if there's older siblilngs, they might have a "significant other" that they may or may not be married to as well. And there you have it, My Great Big Fat Greek Scout Program.

I have all my boys do a BOR for the Scout Rank, even before it was a rank. My committee people know this and conduct the "BOR" with a bit of pomp and circumstance, but also an introduction to the program and what to expect when the BOR's are "for real". In this day and age, it's just as important for the Committee to know why the boy joined scouts as it is to know why he continues with it at each rank.

@Col. Flagg I'm sure you are just jerking my chain. I find it hard to believe that a troop in Texas of 50 scouts can't find a pickup truck!

30 has been my experience. However, my first troop was about 50 and I was an ASM. It was adult led on steroids and the SM and I had the longest tenure in the troop. Of course I was only 1 of 12 ASM's for the 50 boys because the boys did nothing except what they were told to do by an adult. The patrols were in name only and ad hoc rearranged for just about every event. POR's were pencil whipped after the time for requirements was met. While my experience with 50 was beneficial, it did teach me one thing, boy led, patrol method is the only route to go. And by the way, my troop of 30 had a hands on staff of 1 SM and 1 ASM. The boys did the rest of running the troop.

This is why the patrol method is so important. As we grew from 5 to 30, it was difficult for 1 Troop Scribe to handle it all. Thus each patrol had a Scribe so he was responsible for just the fiances of his patrol. All the Patrol Scribes would meet and develop the budget for the outing under the guidance of the SPL. Then the collection of funds was up to them. If the Patrol QM needed some equipment, he would pass that on to the Scribe who would submit a purchase order from the patrol funds. (All funds raised was 1/2 to the troop and 1/2 to the patrols. We had no ISA's.) As the troop grew so did the Scribe "committee". We never got so big that a Troop Scribe became necessary and the ultimate financial concern/liaison with the Troop Committee treasurer fell to the SPL. As the troop would grow, so would the QM "committee" of Patrol QM's and the Scribe "Committee" of Patrol Scribes. No one person had an overwhelming job that needed to be taken over by an adult. This whole process was developed out of the GBB patrol method instruction where everyone in the patrol had a job to do, was trained in it and coordinated with others. With all the boys doing different "jobs" it became apparent to the adults that there were not many boys just standing around with their hands in their pockets. They said I was expecting too much leadership out of the boys and was asked to step down as SM. The troop quickly went back to the adults doing all the leadership. With my new troop, we have our starting 5 boys, each with a patrol POR. They are learning and all under the age of 12. The bucket brigade line is pretty short, but they get the idea. They will learn and they will pass that experience on to the next boys. For those who think that the older boys should be teaching the younger boys and not have patrols broken down by age/interest, it's pretty hard not to interact with others in the brigade line or loading trailers correctly as a "troop" activity. It may not work for those inclined to have a lot of adult supervision, but with a little patience, the boys do figure it out eventually and the number of "tense moments" while drinking coffee from afar, diminish.

Of course logistics of geographic concerns play into the model, but the one thing I do like about it (and it does work after proper training) is that the scouts need to step up and take possession of the process. Even when I got up to about 30 scouts, things went quite smoothly. The SPL (former APL of one of the patrols) did a great job of taking care of his PL's who were focused on their patrol QM's and each of the 4 areas where the patrols were collecting personal and patrol equipment. The storage area wasn't that far into the building so it was easy for 2 patrols to form a bucket brigade of stored equipment to the pickup and trailer. The other 2 patrols were assigned one to the pickup and one to the trailer and they were guided by their patrol QM's on how to load. A patrol QM on each end of the bucket brigade line kept things flowing. Once the stored equipment was loaded the line would move to each patrol area and clean that up pretty quickly. If everyone showed up on time and staged the equipment properly, the could load in about 15-20 minutes and another 10 minutes to throw a tarp over the trailer and tie it down. Late arrivals had their equipment stored in the passenger vehicles and they were responsible for it by themselves. We didn't have a Troop QM, the Patrol QM took turns coordinating it. It kinda spread the learning out to more boys. Upon arrival (and after many attempts) the process was reversed at the activity and the gear was unpacked and put into patrol locations with the PL's making sure the got all the equipment for their boys. Then in the middle of camp, the stored equipment was unloaded and the patrol QM's were responsible for sorting through it to get the stored equipment needed for their patrol. Once that was done (usually quite quickly) the boys were then to set up camp. At first I was there to teach, but eventually the boys figured it out and kept to the process quite well. There were a lot of "tense moments" when certain equipment wasn't divvied up according to what the boys thought fair so I ended up being a referee. The SPL eventually took over that process. If Patrol A got the good stove and Patrol B got the bummer stove, there was nothing wrong with Patrol B raising funds to buy a new stove and put their patrol logo on it and that eventually ended the hassles. I try and incorporate the patrol method into everything the boys are responsible for. I always go with an adult is not to do anything in the troop the boys are capable of doing for themselves. While it doesn't take as much time and effort as it does to put together an Eagle project, each of these little processes goes a long way to prepare the older boys for those Eagle projects. If the adults are doing it all for the boys, I see down the road to the Eagle candidate never having the opportunity to plan, develop and lead is going to find the Eagle project a new experience instead of "old hat". As SM it's my job to create opportunities for the boys to learn and grow, not take them away and do it myself. By the way, the convenience factor doesn't bode well with me. I want my scouts to have hands on elbow grease in the process. It's how they learn.

A 4' x 8' trailer is but a wee bi smaller than the standard sized pickup bed. Hook that to a 4' x 10' rented trailer, and one can now haul more than 2 pickup trucks and still stay within the weight and standard tow capacity for the average pickup truck. Yeah, but.... Yeah, but.... Yeah, but.... ya gotta load the equipment every time and haul it from storage. Well, I guess that's what the QuarterMaster has to figure out. After all he has to do something to earn his POR. Maybe an hour to load and another hour to unload to go to an event and again 2 hours on the return. 6 month POR requirement WOW that's 24 hours of work over 6 months and all the boys in the troop to help? That's a very generous estimate. So when one gets home, pickups drive home with the scouters and the rented trailer is returned. So, what's left? No trailer to store, no security break-in issues to worry about, and someone has to drive by the lot everyday to make sure the whole thing didn't get stolen. So, tell me again, if a Scout is Thrifty, why do they need a $3,000-$5,000 trailer instead of putting it into programming?

First of all, welcome to the forum! As noted, it is very important to do your research on any major purchase before one buy. Yet be sure to take into consideration that what works for one doesn't work for everyone. Yes, I have an old pair of jungle boots, I have used them for 40 years and at age 66 plan on not buying another pair in my lifetime. I continue to kayak on a regular basis and they continue to do the job. Is there something out there after all these years of imp0roved technology? Maybe, maybe not. What I pass along as advice is 40 years of experience with twisted ankles, cuts on the foot and trying to find a boot/shoe a 12"+ deep in the mud. I watch others to see what they are doing and then try to avoid their mistakes. While my jungle boots are a bit clunky and have a sole thicker than any other shoe I wear, it will not feel right when one first tries them out but it is not going to sway 40 years of experience anytime soon. My wife has a fancy pair of water boots she wears when kayaking, but where she kayaks is far different than the BWCA. They work for her, but I don't think she'd be happy in BWCA with them. BWCA has a tendency to throw just about everything one knows about canoeing out the window. Sandy beaches? Yep, Sharp rocky beaches? Yep. Uneven ground on the portages? Yep. 80# of canoe adding to the stress on the feet and ankles? Yep. Mud that one will sink deep into? Yep. Trench foot from no ventilation to the feet? Yep. Blisters? Yep. All in all, I don't think there is anything on the market today that can handle it all. Jungle boots and or jungle boot style footwear comes the closest and that's what I recommend to my boys. My troop took a trek to Philmont back in 2000. I needed a good hiking boot. I talked to everyone except probably my mother on what to buy. The SM mandated full leather hiking boot well worn in. I talked with other hikers, sales clerks at sporting goods stores, other hikers until I was blue in the face. I finally settled on a pair that did not fit the recommendation of the SM. He was outspoken about my choice to the other boys. One boy did not listen and picked the same pair I had purchased. He and I were the only two in the contingent that didn't get blisters. I got lucky, but I had done my research thoroughly. Best of luck, take everything into consideration and when all is said and done. Go with what YOU think is the best FOR YOU.

I had 6 boys in my Webelos den, they crossed over and stayed in their own patrol and encouraged each other throughout their careers. The all Eagled in an adult led troop. But, they were "My" boys and I worked hard at keeping their wishes to stay as a patrol and not have adults interfere with their scouting. It was because of them I became a strong proponent of the NSP, regular and older boy patrols.

Not if both upset her.