Stosh

Welcome aboard.

Welcome to the forum. If you came "up through the ranks" from Tiger to Eagle, you really aren't the new guy. We have adults there with less experience than that.

Our council has 3 districts and 2 DE's that share the duties of all three districts.

I have no problem with the Boy Scouts going co-ed. I work with co-ed programs all the time. The only reason why I work with Boy Scouts as it stands now is because it is an all-male program. It's is unique. Once it loses that uniqueness, then any co-ed program will do if I wish to volunteer my time. I'm already booked with my co-ed church program and a co-ed community program. I'm not much of a chauvinist, but I really enjoy my Men's Bible study, Lion's club, Boy Scouts, etc. maybe after 50+ years, it's time to step down anyway. This just might do it for me.

I did a 9 day float in the BWCA. Rained every day. Don't worry about keeping dry, it ain't gonna happen. Put up went tents and slept in wet bags, and the next morning put on dry cloths that lasted 5 minutes. Got our 50 miles in, though. ..... and didn't have to roll down the windows on the car on the way home.

Gee, if there weren't a few boys here and there protesting President Trump's visit to the jamboree, some might think it more like a Hitler Youth Rally instead of a Jamboree. Oh, yeah, they did.

Many times social etiquette varies from one societal custom to the next. One would never ask a person from India to remove his turban. Or a Jewish person their yarmulke in a place of worship. Doing so would result in oneself being the disrespectful person. While the old adage, When in Rom do as the Romans is nice sentiment, it isn't always good manners to point out out someone's faux pas. 50 years ago women wouldn't go into a place of Christian worship without some kind of head covering. Now it's rare to see a woman wearing a hat/scarf in church. Times change, customs change and I find it rather rude to enforce often times arcane customs. It wasn't all that long ago a man would never go out in public without a hat and take it off any time he spoke to a woman. Such customs have changed. Not everyone got the memo.

I have only 3 adult initiated rules in my boy led troop and the first one is Safety First! I am currently involved with a Red Cross Relief operation where thunderstorms and flash floods hit the southern part of the state. I was involved in Damage Assessment and flooding and tornadoes are no joke. I visited with one lady a couple of days ago when a tree snapped off and put a large tree limb through her trailer. Celing through to the ground. It missed her by about 4' while she was sitting in her living room. Yes freak storms happen, but my first thought for this lady was why in the world would you be sitting in the living room of your trailer house when a tornado hits? People need to have frequent conversations about such things and to ignore them puts everyone else in danger. Tell the story, make sure everyone hears it. I have gone through quite a few tornadoes, lightning storms and know the importance of being safe. Peoples' lives are dependent on one's vigilance. Flash floods? One river nearby here rose to 4' 6" above floor level two blocks from the river in 7 minutes. This is not an area prone to such activity. Be careful out there!

How this process is carried out will have a major impact on the scouts and scouters involved. After 50+ years I still remember my best friend from my youth (his dad is my Godfather) died from a mosquito bite he received at Boy Scout WINTER camp. He was an only child. I vividly remember to this day going to the wake and seeing him in his full uniform. It wasn't until recently that I learned that his dad was a WWII and Koren veteran and a 1936 Eagle Scout. My best wishes to the scouts and scouters and family. This young man and father are buried in the same cemetery as my parents and gets a visit every time I visit them. This kind of loss sometimes takes a whole lifetime to heal... I'm still waiting. Peace to you all.

This process reminds me back in the '60's when the space race with Russia was going hot and heavy. The US spent big bucks developing a pen that would work in zero gravity.... the Russians used a pencil.

I have 3 Yucca Packs and a Haversack that I still use today. My big "Philmont" pack is too bulky and awkward for a weekend outing. If it's too heavy/bulky to take in a Yucca, it's too heavy/bulky to take along.

My car has windows that roll down......

One can learn best from two different options. 1) The mistakes of others and 2) one's own mistakes. I always work at option #1.

A young boy is standing at the foot of a very tall tree. He says he's going to climb it. Mom says, "Be careful". Dad says, "How high can you go?" Kinda makes one wonder about the dynamics of the BSA program and what it will become.

I bought a rural parcel to retire on. It's 9 acres with 8 of them woods. I call it my "man cave". It's were I go to get away from everything. No phones allowed above the treeline. I have a place where I always sit for the deer hunt every year. After the first deer, it's where I go to just sit and watch next year's herd. I built trails throughout the area so my wife could walk the dog. Dog's gone, but I still maintain the trails for the Mrs. and I. Every spring on through the fall Wednesday morning is a trek up into the woods to see what's new with flowers, 'shrums, and wildlife. There's nothing more therapeutic than woodlands with nothing to do but sit and enjoy the trees. The Mrs. suggested that maybe next year I can clear out a campsite for us.

It's call Scareobics, the sudden-impact workout.

One has to be impolite to be able to point out the courtesy short-comings of others. Maybe I need to work on my social skills that would allow me to point out the rudeness of those who find it necessary to chastise me for wearing my hat.

What the PL's elected an SPL HERETIC! Did anyone think that just maybe the ASPL is next in line before the outgoing SPL? Ain't it jus' great how BSA spells this all out so that all the negative fallout gives us something on the forum to talk about? SM decides this, PLC decides that, The boys vote, the troop votes, serves at the pleasure of the troop but has to do it for a full 12 month term or the will hold his rank advancement back, etc. etc. etc. I hear SM/ASM's all walking around telling the boys, "Go talk to your PL", "Go talk to your PL." and with an adult led troop, the boys know this is code word for "Don't bother me. I know your PL doesn't run the show and can't make decisions, but I"m busy now, so go talk to your PL." Then the SM's and ASM/s get on the forum and complain about the boys not wanting to lead. Well, everyone knows who makes the ultimate decisions in a group. If the boys are constantly looking to the adults for decisions, it's because they know the pecking order. So, when it comes to the SPL? What does it really matter. In all the summer camps I have attended, they have a daily SPL meeting (which is duplicated in a daily adult leader meeting.) It is as if the SPL really doesn't matter, but they get to hold the title and waste their time in a meeting. I have had more than one camp director get on my case about not attending the leader's meeting. I always tell them, my SPL is too busy to attend two meetings every day that have all the same information. Not many SPL's need to really be an SPL because the SM/ASM at the leader's meeting will tell the boys what they need to know for the day. If the SPL knew he was solely responsible for the passing of camp information and there was no SM/ASM safety net out there, he'd step up to the plate. We got the train 'em part down (that's all we ever do), we don't really trust 'em, and there's no way in God's green creation we are ever really going to let them lead.

My mistake, being active, ,hold a leadership position or demonstrate leadership has nothing to do with any functional POR. JASM is nothing more than a skirt around to the intent of the requirement. As adult ASM's are told to do nothing a scout can't do for himself, a JASM does even less.

Not really. I have quite a few BSA units I drive by to get to my unit. Why? Because the council saw a need for a unit in a large part of town that wasn't covered geographically. 3 units of Cubs an no Troops. I said yes and that was that. So if BSA goes co-ed, it becomes generically the same dynamics of any other co-ed group. To answer your other post by blw2 it does make a difference to me whether or not the program is all-boy or co-ed. I guess I wouldn't be half upset as I could be, Venturing was co-ed and I had a crew for 13 years. But with Cub and Boy, the program has not just going co-ed, it's just a half step to Family Scouting and I work just with youth. Helicopter parents officially in the program don't really appeal to me at all. By the way, boys really won't mature and build character with the parents hanging around interfering with their progress to adult independence.

If I ran the zoo, said young Gerald Magrew, there's be a few changes, that's just what I would do..... MB's prior to Eagle should only count for rank advancement if they are one of the 21 required. Otherwise they don't count for palm, they count for Eagle. In this case they double dip. Elective MB's prior to Eagle should also require POR time OTHER THAN POR for rank, otherwise they are double dipping there too. So. Eagle candidate Johnny is to get his Eagle. He has his 21 required MB. for his rank advancement. But he also has an additional 5 elective palms and did an additional 3 month POR prior to Eagle, he also gets a palm. It's earned and he's entitled to it. That same candidate shows up at his ECOH with 26 MB's should not get his Eagle and 5 palms for double dipping the requirements. I also don't think that JASM should count for palm POR. The POR should be an actual functioning POR. Maybe it's only a patrol QM, but it's more than just sitting around with the other ASM's jaw-jacking and drinking coffee which is what ASM's do most of the time anyway.

With the younger scouts the pre-SMC deal with expectations on the difficulty involved with the MB. Having a ton of half done MB's is not something that is effectively providing the right program for the boys. It's kind of like not wanting to set the boy up for failure. Sending a new boy off thinking he's going to walk away with the camping MB or Fitness MB at camp isn't going to be a reality for him. Better to build up the requirements before hand and then take it when the goal is at least on the horizon. With the younger scouts the post-SMC deal with their evaluation of the material, the MB counselor and whether or not they thought it was a worthwhile effort to have learned. If there's a kit that went with the MB, then I will do a bit of "ooooh" and "aaaah" over the results of his work. It's always interesting to see what they did. I don't want to have the boy just chuck it away in a box somewhere. With the older boys the pre-SMC deals more with expectations more in line with his skill and maturity level. Fingerprinting, Art, Music, Basketry, Indian Lore, and such just to get an Palm award might involve a little bit more discussion than Welding, Auto Repair, etc. where the boy is genuinely seeking further knowledge in his Scouting career. With the older boys the post-SMC deals a lot with the evaluation and worth of the MB. I use the comments from the boys to better pre-SMC with other scouts if a MB they want to take has a history of "no good" with a certain counselor or camp program. I also encourage the boy if it was a really good experience to talk it up with the other scouts and encourage them to pursue it as well. My SMC's are just as important to me as it is for the boys. I learn a lot about the different summer camp MB programs from the boys and if the MB's suck, but the shooting sports were fantastic, then I mark it up in my mental database for the next boys coming up in rank. This allows me to keep a pulse on the MB programs at council and camps.

I used to drive 40 miles round trip to attend weekly Boy Scout meetings. Now with the changes in troops, It's only a 30 mile round trip. If BSA becomes co-ed, there's a ton of co-ed program a lot closer to home I can be involved in. If BSA is going to be like all the rest, what's the point in picking one's options closer to home.

I'm not disputing the need for any BOR, have as many as one wants, not a problem. The only one's I thing are important in relationship to this discussion are those BOR's for rank advancement as required in the list of requirements. If BSA puts that as a requirement for the palm, so be it, it doesn't hurt. As I have mentioned, I had the boys do a BOR for Scout before it was a rank. Why? Because I felt it was important for the boy to learn how to do a BOR before it counted towards ranks. If one thinks having a BOR for a palm is a waste of time, then jump through the hoops and get the palm done. If it's not going to be required because it's not a rank, then have one anyway if one thinks it's important for the boy. While it is not required, I have a SMC before and after every MB a boy takes. I believe that this process is important for both the boy and I. Nothing in the requirements say I have to do it, but I do it anyway. I guess that process would be the same when it came to the BOR and palms. After all the verbal recognition from SM and Committee might be something the boy likes because Mom and Dad are going to be proud, but that's what they get paid for. SM and Committee do it for real.

After the boys pick their patrols, they select/elect (however they want to do it, it's fine with me). their PL because that's the person they want taking care of them. I subscribe to the idea that the SPL should be selected/elected by the PL's because that's the person they want taking care of them. There's nothing but aggravation to have all the boys elect an SPL based on the popularity method of politicin' only to have the PL's suffer the results. Not a problem I want to deal with. With me, NO the SPL is the "PL" of the PL's, not the troop. The PL's serve at the pleasure of the patrol members and the SPL serves at the pleasure of the PL's. I find that SPL's interfering with patrol activities is non-existent with that understanding. No SPL ever trumps a PL on a decision made by the patrol. If there's a problem with one patrol wanting to go to one activity and another patrol to a different activity at the same time, it's the SPL's responsibility to resolve the issue with the PL's or call together the leadership corps to do double duty, getting each patrol to where they want to be. The are in a supportive role, not dictatorial. If patrol A of younger scouts want to go to summer camp A because it has a great first year program and patrol B of older boys want to go to summer camp B because it has a great HA program, either one or the other patrols will call in blue-flu for that week if it's required to go to a camp it doesn't wish to attend. Of course of one has mixed patrols, the patrols will need to be broken up to handle such diversity in the camp program. Those kinds of things don't bode well for the patrol method. Let the SPL earn his stripes. Figure out a solution that satisfies both patrols equally. That's his responsibility. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's not BSA policy, but then a lot of BSA policies seem to cause enough problems along the way that it keeps the threads going for a long time on the forum. All the boys in the troop electing Mr. Popularity for a 12 month term that the PL's have to suffer with for it, doesn't make my job as SM easier. If the PL's select the SPL, it's their own fault if it doesn't work out and they can dump him and get a new one in a matter of minutes. That's how it works in the real world. You screw up at work, at home, or anywhere else, you are immediately on the outside looking in.