Stosh

Boys that don't want a Marine recruiter teaching them the MB do not have to ask him to do so. All he needs do is make himself available to those that wouldn't mind.

Unfortunately, not all units handle it as well as your crew/troop has. The only ones getting hurt with that process is both units and the kids. Yeah, co-ed venture patrols would be nice, but probably not any time soon. However, I don't see that being any different than the setup you have going for you at the present time. Nice to see it is working out for you.

The national DC award takes 12 months of valid service to the den to be achieved. If you have a good DC, keep him for at least 12 months. If not, yet rid of him yesterday. Stosh

By the way qwazse, that's why I walked away from the crew a few years back. The adult leadership is thin, the committee may or may not be paper only, and yet they have a few hanger-ons for boys. Even though it has survived for 13+ years, it's existence has always been tenuous at best. I had an opportunity to move up from ASM in one troop to become SM of another and needed to drop CA. It was time, I was having trouble accepting the YPT rule bending they had started doing. I now spend my time focused on starting a new unit in my old neighborhood. We're holding a chartering meeting right after Labor Day.

One would think that the same goals could be accomplished with a Venture Patrol within the troop. I just don't understand the whole Venturing process relative to the Scouting process. I worked with a lot of Explorer posts and Venturing crews and found the most successful, smoothest run are those that are independent and focused on their program rather than relationships to other units. One cannot be the servant of two masters, it'll catch up to the boys sooner or later. Even the non-scout members of the crew, i.e. the gals!, will eventually ask the question, why do we always have to check with the troop before we plan an activity? An independent crew will never have to address that issue. Stosh

One of the biggest problems with Venturing is that it competes with the high end Boy Scout program. 1) it draws the top leadership out of the troops because now they can have co-ed and 2) do many of the things Boy Scouts can't do. However, its basically a free-for-all program. The Venturing Crew I started has contact with the Council once a year when they recharter. That's it. They even throw away any and all information that is sent out by the council. Basically all they are doing is slipping in under the insurance radar. The council doesn't care as long as the money comes in. I would doubt whether anyone from the council has ever attended an activity of the crew in the past 15 years. I know for a fact that they didn't for the first 12.

We had to sedate him, but he did fine!

As well as it should be.

Our boys really enjoyed the week-long camp-wide game. They received "gold" coins for all the activities they attended. My boys were the only out-of-council troop that week. The other boys used their coins up by purchasing "weapons" and "mercenaries" and went to "war" against each other. My boys were never attacked, no intra-council rivalries. Well, eventually all the troops had whittled themselves down to one last troop standing. Thinking they were the last man standing they had forgotten our boys, who still were sitting on a pile of coins. They "bought" up the whole rest of the camp as mercenaries and went after that last troop. They never saw it coming and every other troop in camp was looking for revenge.

I always tell my boys to "drive from the backseat". They know that even if they don't hold the leadership position they have a ton of leadership to offer. I always tell my boys the coach doesn't play the game, the orchestra conductor makes no sound, and the driver's ed teacher sits in the passenger seat. Everyone has leadership to offer. Show up for Roundtables, you never know when you might be able to help someone else. That's what Servant Leadership is all about.

I didn't have the POR's wear the patch. One can't see it from a distance anyway so what's the point. Were the boys earning their rank's POR responsibility requirement? Sure, when they got to the BOR they had to be able to justify it to the board. If not, it was their problem. I had one boy "earn" POR requirement under three different PORs in his 6 month time. He was PL of one of the patrols, but researched a new summer camp, organized, registered, and lined up the logistics to go (Scribe). He also lined up all the camp gear necessary and made sure that was all ordered for the week of camp (QM) and then for the week at camp, he served as SPL for the troop because he knew the most about what was going on. A different boy did the same thing for the camporees, Any boy in the troop could take on any activity for leadership (POR) credit. One boy took on popcorn sales. A new scout on his third meeting, volunteered on organizing a service project at a local park. Another boy (Instructor) mentored him through the details. Basically each boy journaled his POR involvement and had it as a record for his BOR "brag-time". My boys had two options when it came to BOR's. Either they sat there and waited for the Board to ask them questions with which they had their notes handy to supply answers, or 2) come in, introduce oneself and make a 15-20 minute report on what you have done to earn the rank. I had one boy do this for his Eagle BOR and the panel only asked him 4 questions and then had to interrupt him in his reply to go on to the next question. At first I thought they were kind of upset with him, but the next day they invited him to be the speaker at the Golden Eagle Banquet that year

Now there's a PR nightmare.... The only time you don't have fun is summer camp??? Stosh

For all of those in the warmer climes, remember, the necker worn around the neck doesn't need to be dry. On the really hot days, I soak my down with water and it does wonders. Even with Civil War reenacting in wool uniforms in 90+ degree heat I wear a wet bandana around my neck that I periodically soak from my canteen. When the battlefield angels come around with ice, I even roll chunks of ice in it before tying it on. I've never gone down to the heat in 15 years of reenacting, but a lot of guys half my age have. The only time I wore a BSA t-shirt was at Philmont because the SM insisted. That was the only one of two times n 40 years of scouting the boys saw me out of the official field uniform. The only other time was at the Centennial Jamboree where I wore a wool 1912 converted military uniform with shirt AND tunic.... and a wet necker for sure.

There's always a problem when rules are dictated down to the patrols. If they are told and they don't like it, they vote with their feet. The SM tells he SPL what to do, the SPL tells the PLs tell the patrols what to do. For me, reverse it. The patrols decide what they what to do and then tell the SPL at the PLC what they have planned. The SPL reports the activities to the SM. Then the SM and SPL mentor, assist, do what it takes to help make it happen. At least the boys are doing what they want. If another patrol catches on to being able to really have some fun, the others will follow. A PL that doesn't work out with his boys will soon get replaced, which in my book can happen any time the patrol decides. There's no such thing as voting every 6 months and then putting up with a mistake. If someone gets elected and doesn't do the work, he's out and someone that wants to make things happen takes over. Yeah, that font thingy is fun. Stosh

Beats me on the cost. I bought a $30 campaign hat and it's not official BSA. To-date, no one has ever questioned it. If others can produce $30 campaign hats, I have no idea why BSA can't do it as well. I have two red jac-shirts, one BSA official, picked up on sale $20 and the other a Pendleton $30. Again, I've never been asked whether it is official BSA or not.

My ideal camp would be for each PATROL in a troop to have the option of designing their own program. NSP gets scoutcraft, maybe makes a bridge, tower, maybe works on advancement, special training in cooking on wood fires, whatever the boys want to do. Older boys want whitewater canoeing this year, maybe rock climbing next year and shooting sports the third year or maybe they'll just fish all week. If there be a patrol of older boys that just want to come to camp to sit and enjoy the out-of-doors for a week, jaw-jack around the campfire and stay out of trouble! What's the harm? Maybe they might want to take on a camp service project if they get too bored. Dump the mess hall. All patrols are supported by a commissary and they pick their menus for the week like they pick their MB's today. If they want pancakes every morning. So be it. If they want steak every night, so be it. Cost of the meals is known when they sign up and adjusted accordingly. The price of camp varies according to the menu chosen. PORs function as PORs - SPL works with camp staff to make sure the patrols get what they need. If he needs more help, the ASPL is there. QM is the go to guy for camp equipment and commissary supplies for anything the patrols may need. Whereas it doesn't sound like much fun to be in these positions, taking on responsibility for the welfare of others isn't always fun and games. Camp staff is responsible for programming in leadership development for the PORs when they are not attending to their patrol support activities. Or maybe they, too, could be doing worthwhile camp service projects of their own choosing. Nothing against MattR, but maybe he's asking the wrong person, he needs to be asking the scouts what they want for a summer camp experience. For me personally???? I would love to be dropped off someplace in a national forest, have 5 days of goods cached around the area a day's hike apart and I need to survive from one cache to the next finally exiting at a pre-designated area. No GPS, just map and compass. I would need to record my trek with camera and journal indicating all wildlife and flora I came across. Stosh

It must be tough telling a kid that he'll never achieve Tenderfoot, while his buddies are all getting Eagle, just because he can't do a pull-up to some adult's expectation. It would be a shame is some scouter didn't get a knot for his shirt because he missed a roundtable because he had a funeral to attend. Rules are important, but even more so are people. Once BSA works through the homosexual and atheist issues, maybe they can tackle the pull-up issue. Stosh

Or one could just put their hand over their heart and let it go at that. There is no enforcement of the Flag Code, it is there to assist citizens in how to show respect for the flag. If standing and putting one's hand over their heart regardless of one's hat isn't enough, then I don't know what is. It sure beats sitting in the lawn chair digging through the cooler looking for their next beer and ignoring the flag altogether. Whether it be right or wrong, the flag going down the street is able to allow that person the freedom to do so. I do notice the improper display of the Flag in many parades as inappropriate to the Code in the first place. If there are two flags, one the US Flag and maybe the state flag, the US Flag is on the right. Not a problem, but when someone adds a third flag, i.e. American Legion flag, the US Flag goes out front! On a vehicle it is the front center or right front corner that gets the flag. Flags displayed on floats is inappropriate. They are meant to be carried and allowed to fly freely no matter how windy it might be. And the big kicker for me is the horizontal display of the flag. Totally inappropriate. The flag is to fly high and free! It's kinda hard to expect the public to show respect when many of the color guards have not done their homework. Stosh

Stick with the boy-led, patrol-method and you won't have to invest an Eagle projects worth of effort every month. Mentor the boys with their own projects. Welcome to the forum. Stosh

The older boys were waning in their excitement for the troop. They always went back to the same old, same old camp every year and approached me about having boys that were FC+ form a patrol of their own. They limited it to 8 boys max, invite only. They wanted to do things a bit more on their own footing. My standard answer for any boy-led initiatives is: "Sure, why not". I was ASM at the time and approached the SM about it. He allowed it on a temporary basis. They went full uniform with expedition hat, aggressively avoided the SPL/ASPL, QM, etc. PORs. The PL mentored the SPL, APL, mentored the ASPL, etc. They, on their own terms, lead T-FC instructions for the younger boys, and at outings separated themselves from the rest of the adult-led troop and let the patrols work on their own as well. There were there when needed, but retained their own independence and responsibilities. The bump came when they wanted to sign up for a patrol-method camp outside the council. The honor patrol had done a lot of things for the boys in developing the patrol method and they could have very easily gone to summer camp without the honor patrol. When the SM forbid them going on their own to a more challenging camp, they all "quit" and so did I. After I left, they all received their Eagle within 6 months and left the troop. Stosh

I've worn the expedition hat for over 15 years. It's faded and worn, but it's the most comfortable hat I've ever had. Holds out the rain, keeps off the sun. I put a SM pin on the front. It's got Philmont 2000 branding on the underside of the brim. It was old then. My honor scouts wore them and they were easy to spot wherever in camp they were. No one else seems to want to wear them. My SPL had a yellow hat band and my ASPL a light blue hat band. The rest were plain with the large first class pin. The SPL and ASPL had old SPL/ASPL pins from the 30's and 40's pinned to the front. The boys really liked them and wore them all the time. They were kinda pricy, but the boys were expected to go out and earn the money to buy them rather than just ask mom/dad. They all did and I think that also supported the fact that they took good care of them. The surprising thing was when we were at summer camp, the honor patrol was chastized by the camp staff for not taking their expedition hats off because only official headgear was allowed at flag ceremonies. It shows how little most people know about the expedition hat. Best hat BSA has ever put out. The second most appreciated hat in my collection is the campaign hat. I don't make any effort to keep it pristine and the brim now conforms and with the wide brim is great on sunny days. I wear it with my Sunday-go-to-meeting uniform. Stosh

Welcome to the forum.

I guess, having lived through those years, the camaraderie, the pride, the honor of what was once Scouting seemed to be replaced with individualized achievement trends. The sense of community (patrols) has taken it in the shorts quite a bit. It would seem in the military there is a trend to train together, serve together and then for many years afterwards gather for reunions, always holding on to that bond that they formed many years earlier. Now, once a scout has achieved his requisite requirements and has an Eagle pin, his scouting commitment is history. It is as if the earlier one gets their pin, the quicker they can quit scouts. The leadership dynamics of the military of soldiers following their commander into battle has been replaced by a bunch of adults begging and pleading their minions to even show up for an event. The uniform is but a joke. Mix and match and replaced by t-shirts with camp pictures on them and endless discussion on how to circumvent the uniform. So what motivates our citizenry to SERVE in the military? One cannot serve effectively if their only goal is to serve themselves. Good Turn Daily and helping others at all times just doesn't seem to get much traction in today's scouting. Yet the military continues on just as it always has. What's their formula they use that has since been dropped from scouting today? 50 years ago it was still there, I remember the boys in my Cub den were the same that were in my troop patrol. That group didn't really break up until high school graduation. Stosh

I agree with the previous posts. If one is not welcomed in one place, find somewhere you are. Liberty and tolerance are rare, but necessary, items in our today's society.

At least we aren't back in the day when BSA had both shirt AND tunic for the boys to wear.