Stosh

So then there's no hypocrisy or inapproprate behavior assumed when scouters show up at the district awards dinner in civilian clothes so they can drink? It's a scout activity but sans uniform, it's okay? ... sorry I don't see the justification in such double standards. Here we have scouters worried about what to wear at a ECOH while at the same time wearing a suit so they can make have a beer.

First of all I do consume a brew now and then. I do it at home and at dinners where I am not driving. That's not the problem. The hypocrisy come into play when I skirt around an organization's rules. I don't drink in a scout uniform because of the image of the program. If I go onto my CO's (American Legion) bar and everyone in there knows I am their SM, it doesn't make a bit of difference whether I'm uniform or not. They can make the connection and it may reflect bad on the program. At a restaurant where they don't know me, it doesn't reflect bad on scouting. The same held true when I was in the clergy. How much respect do you have for the program you represent?

Go to the council office, pick up a new unit application form, fill it out. Get registration forms for all youth and adults. Have everyone fill them out. Collect up the money. Take everything back to the council office and give it to the registrar. You are going to have to do that all anyway. You don't need the DE to form a crew. It's helpful to have one to help, but you don't seem to have one.

In my troop, the toten chit was only valid for one year. That is not according to regs, not valid, but I do not care. In all the years of scouting I've never done first aid for a knife cut. And if I see any infractions the whole card goes not just a corner. Stosh

Taking off one's uniform so they can drink is a problem for me. The character of the scouter should be the same regardless of what one wears. Stosh

I was a Bear when I got my first personal pocket knife. It was a Cub knife. However, having grown up in an outdoors family, I had been using knives long before then. Cleaning game and filleting fish was a way of life. Whittling? I had access to my dad's knife long before I got one of my own. I've carried one ever since. How often do I use it? Just this morning I opened a box shipped to me at work. It was no big deal, my parents made no big issue about it and over the years the only one that cut is me. The more everyone makes an issue about it, the more the kids get curious. Dad made it clear to me from the beginning, it's a tool, not a weapon. He gave me the same lecture when I got the keys to the car when I turned 16. Stosh

Hypocrisy has no bounds Stosh

In a few Christian churches the sinner is welcomed, others, not. It says a lot about the religious organizations on how they react to this situation. Stosh

Define "Happy"..... Always have to have some point of reference even if it keeps moving all over the place. Stosh

I'd go as Dad. You will always be dad, but eventually you will cease being SM. Stosh

Bears? You shouldn't have a problem if you hang your hammock as high as the bear bag.... Stosh

Oooh, that's gonna leave a mark someplace. And by the way, don't confuse me with facts.... Stosh

Welcome back. Stosh

I did Philmont at age 50. I did okay, but I weighed 175# and had trained for 9 months prior. I could run up and down hills all day long with a 50# pack on. Hit the thin air of Philmont and it was a whole different story. At 17 weighing 135# I don't know if it would have been any different. But if I were 200#+ I don't know what I would have done, it would have been miserable. We took the most difficult trek, the 5 major peaks of Philmont. Now that I'm 63, I don't think I would attempt it anymore. Stosh

At least this guy doesn't work for a newspaper and have to come up with article titles. Gotta read them, then read them carefully, then have your drunk buddy read them, and then if it's okay, print it.

Ya, know, qwazse, that's not such a bad idea.

Of course from the title of your thread, if you are female, go for it, otherwise, I'd take a pass unless you have a really nice pair of high heels to go with it. Stosh

I'm starting a new troop and offered CO spots on committee, finance audits, etc. and they said, all we want to do is provide a room for your boys to meet and store their equipment. So it varies from one CO to the other. Stosh

Hello from WI

From your comments Eagledad, we are in full agreement on the concept, it's just kinda tough getting some sort of program to promote it to balance out the myopic attitudes of today's youth and some adults.

Would you agree that the advancement part of the program is easier for people to teach than the leadership part? I'm thinking the easy cop out is to simply make check marks in boxes than it is to sit down and work with boys developing their character and leadership abilities. Other than in the oath ever month, how many leaders emphasize helping other people at all times in their troop. We do an inspection of the the uniforms, but do we do an inventory of the boys' Daily Good Turns? We all know how much more powerful praise is over chastisement, and yet the only time we haul out our copy of the Oath and Promise is when the boys do something wrong..... If SL isn't going to start at the national level, at least let it start at the SM/adult level in the troops.

Maybe I should have said, "EDGE is one of many different teaching methods", but if any of the skills learned are only for advancement and not the betterment of the student, then I have a problem with it. Okay, if the EDGE doesn't work, maybe a PowerPoint and laser pointer would work, or a lecture, or maybe I have to read the book out loud to him, all of which are different teaching methods. When servant leadership is used, any and all tools/skills necessary to help the student learn is okay. If the lecture and flip chart isn't working, maybe a story of how the bunny comes up out of his hole runs around the tree and goes back into the hole will work. The boy that sits down and uses whatever skills he has learned to help someone else is demonstrating quality servant leadership. I also dislike the BSA emphasis on EDGE because not every boy learns the same way. The BSA implication is that if you can't figure out how to learn from EDGE, you're a lost cause. So, how does one teach a skill using EDGE to a blind scout? the deaf scout? or the scout with only one arm? We have them out there. So as to calm the waters: There are a variety of different teaching skills available, but if the boy only teaches because he gains advancement, what's the big deal? HASLUAMP method is good servant leadership teaching method (Help A Scout Learn Using Any Means Possible) Stosh

As far as favoring patrols with the intent of gaining Eagle? Nope, never my contention. I do, however, "frown" on forced mixed aged groups. For example, the NSP needs either to elect an older boy from the troop to lead them or have a strong TG to assist in developing leadership within their patrol. That involves older scouts working with the younger ones. I am not at all adverse to going with what the patrol members want. If the older boys want to take on younger boys, no problem. My beef with that would be the forcing the younger boys/pals to break up their bonds and go with what some adult said. As I mentioned, the first years might be heavily advancement oriented, with a bit of leadership mixed in, but by the time the older boys have reached FC, their leadership style should be defined, the best resource for them to actually use it would be with the younger boys. That's not to say a good leader can't work with his peers and elders. I'm thinking POR's are supposed to do that, but how many boys get elected to these positions because they know what they're doing and how many spend their 6 months trying to figure it out while being totally useless to those how are needing his leadership? Thus the POR ends up just a check box on the way to Eagle. Heck, we all know, having come through a school system, those teachers (all duly certified) that were there because of a commitment to helping kids and those who were there for the paycheck and summer off. They all sat through the classes and got them checked off and eventually got their credentials (Eagle). Sure they are teachers, but what does that say about the quality of education. Same for the Eagle program. BSA does fairly well with developing organizational and teaching skills necessary for leadership, but I know of no program to develop any true sense of servant leadership or its culture. Sure the boys all go out and do service projects and eagle projects that benefit others but are they doing it to gain advancement or because they want to pitch in and help someone that needs it? You are correct, a culture change is necessary, but what BSA program promotes that? What BSA program teaches that? Are any of our SM's trained to work with the boys on that? EDGE is a teaching skill, but if the boy only teaches because he gains advancement, what's the big deal? A culture change has to happen from the top down. Unless National gets on board with a stronger emphasis on scouting being a true service organization, it's only going to end up a personal achievement organization. The purpose of my thread is to ask the question why isn't it both, why can't scouting have two goals that balance together? Obviously they are aimed in two different directions, one towards self and the other towards others. Can they balance?

While at the lower ranks achievement of skill is important, one would think there would be a change towards leadership emphasis. That is not happening. All there is more of the same. Should there be more emphasis placed on servant leadership and how to do it? Now the boys have something of value to work for besides just getting Eagle. Teaching organizational skills is important but how about leadership? would it not benefit the boys more to know there's more than just a pin waiting down the road?

If OA is a Boy Scout program, why would Venturing even be involved? Same for the leadership of the Cub Scout program. Do they wear the lodge flap on their DL uniform?