Stosh

That's the decision of the parent to not have their scout go on the outing. This is why if the parent really wanted their son to go, I had the temporary guardian permission slip for them to consider and I then assigned a mature Boy Scout to buddy up with them and help me keep an eye on them. If there's a will, there's a way. Yes, there are parents out there that will "punish" the boy by not allowing him to go if siblings can't go. I've seen it done many times. But as a scout leader, one cannot trump parents no matter what they choose to do. There are a lot of options out there for the siblings, Johnny's going camping and Suzie has to go to grandmas for the weekend, or a sleep over at a friends house, or as a last resort, use the guardian permission slip. It may not solve the problem completely, but it does offer more options for parents to consider other than just not letting Johnny go. Stosh

I have 3 cats and 2 dogs. Care for them is a lot different. Cats can be left alone for a whole weekend. Dogs have to be let outside twice a day, minimum. I have one dog that thinks 50 is minimum. Care routine is vastly different. If the boy was serious about the MB, he would have to make a commitment with some neighbor to come over before school and after school and throughout the weekend to really take care of a dog. The MB is not as easy as one would think. I'm glad the boy fessed up and did the right thing. Stosh

Moose, When I was an ASM for a troop, I did my WB ticket on the Web -> BS transition. I took the Webelos and met for an hour prior to the Troop meeting where the Troop met. I covered as many pins as possible and the Web I boys all earned AOL at the end of Web I. We met weekly. There were no Web II boys that year. Second year I reviewed the pins, did some outings, hikes, camping etc. and when it came time to visit a troop, I just postponed the meeting 1 hour and it went smoothly. During the second year, the Web II's could "cross-over" whenever they wanted to when they reached 10 1/2 years old. Eventually the den disappeared and all the boys stayed with the troop except one who moved out of the area. The remaining 5-6 all Eagled. Basically they were all used to the idea of weekly meetings at that location and kept up the process until they aged out. The hardship for me? I had to show up an hour early ready with the pin activity. No big deal. One of the boys at his ECOH came to me and thanked me personally for all I had done. No other male adult had spent that much time with him (9 years) other than his Dad. Stosh

Head 'em off at the pass! I emphasize the importance of the book, right from the very beginning. You lose the book, it's going to be a hassle. I use software to backup the books, but emphasize it's only a back up and if something is not recorded in the backup it will have to be done a second time. An ASM is responsible for the backup records, but the boys are all responsible for making sure the ASM knows about any changes and has the book to back it up. Sure we have had lost books, especially by boy not really buying into it's importance. The boy makes an appointment to visit with the ASM in charge of advancement and the two go back to square one and work it all over again either using the records or doing the task over. The boy needs to show he can do everything he had covered. If it's a second time around, it shouldn't be a big problem. If he's forgotten, a second review is no big deal. We have records of advancement sent to the council office, and THE BOY has to go back through all the records and recreate a new book recording all the dates of advancement, MB's etc. Rank in progress is always a difficult thing to do. He has to have evidence of the service projects he attended, MB's in progress, POR served, etc. The onus of the process is on the boy, not the records, or the adult record keeper. If a few of the boys learn that by losing a book, it's going to be a lot of hassle, they tend to either find the book quickly or resolve themselves to the fact that recreating the records is not a fun time and won't lose it in the first place. Stosh

I've never been one that memorizes verbatim when it comes to training. As far as reading it to the participants, that's never been my style either. What I do is read it to myself multiple times and then when training, make sure I cover all the bases in detail, but using my own words. I think this is what the comment in the second to the last paragraph was intending to emphasize. Lecturing is never a good idea for anyone of any age. I try to get a reading on my audience to see how focused they are and if they are not, then reading is useless. They aren't going to pay attention anyway. I toss in an attention getter just before an important idea is being presented. "When it comes to YP, these are the things one needs to pay particular attention to and why." This draws everyone's attention, even if it be for a minute to a critical teaching point. Also placement in the presentation is vital as well. The most important issues are covered first while people are fresh. The first hour of the day will get better traction than the first hour after lunch. The last hour of the day is pretty much a waste of time unless one makes a big deal out of it. If one thinks that reading/verbatim during the hour after lunch or the last hour of the day is a good idea, think again. Stosh

Still use canvas, nothing old about it! Stosh

Boys will always try and push the envelop when it comes to being boys. While in a sense this is not such a bad thing, but it sometimes needs to be channeled/tweaked into something positive. When I started out working with youth, it was in an institutional setting as a tutor. The only thing they told me was always sit with the back of your chair against a wall. I also worked with the NYPUM program for at risk youth. Once you learn how to deal with the institutionalize and at-risk kids, working with the scouts is a piece of cake. I basically have a pretty good idea what young minds are looking for at that age. Haven't we all yelled in frustration, at our parents, "When are you going to start treating me like an adult?!!" And the parents, yell back, "When you start acting like it!!!" Well, duh, who's teaching these kids to act like it? It isn't the schools, it isn't the parents, it isn't their peers. So who is it? Respect received is always after respect is given. Not many adults start out relationships with "kids" with respect for them. In schools, I'm the teacher and I'm here to teach you because you aren't as smart as me yet, etc. This message is very clear to the 11-13 year olds. So, do I get down on their level and become cool on their level? Nope, I raise them up to the adult level where I am. In my book they don't have to act like an adult before I treat them as such. This message is also very clear to the 11-13 year olds. Do I have issues? Sure, the boys screw up on occasion, but my "discipline" would be the same for them as it would be if it were there parent that did it. The boys know that if they screw up, own up to it and work to correct the situation as an adult would do, I won't discipline the boy. Why should I, if it were his parent, I wouldn't even consider disciplining them. In all the years of working with youth (a bit over 40 years) I haven't had a whole lot of issues with the kids, but I have had a ton of issues over the years with their parents who don't act like adults. I have even had a few of the boys apologize to me for the way their parents acted, which when it comes to the maturity of those kids, I know I'm on the right track. I spend a lot of time getting out ahead of issues doing my best to ward them off before they really do become an "issue" that I have to deal with . Stosh

Skeptic, I'm assuming you don't do sarcasm very well. This is a great example of not only sarcasm but dripping sarcasm. But on the other hand, I have been promoting a Home Ec MB for years and it has only been in recent times the higher up people are now taking heed. I guess I was a bit ahead of my times. This is nothing new. Civil War soldiers carried a "housewife" with them at all times which was basically a sewing kit to make field repairs. The boys have been very lax in that their mothers no longer sew, so industrial America had to compensate with such wonderful products such as Badge Magic. Other Home Ec subjects like cooking and cleaning, making beds and caring for bedding, are already covered in Cooking MB and Camping MB, so that's not a problem. Why not a combined Home Ec MB, Eagle path, of course, and cut right to the chase. That would free up some of the 21 required to include such things as Group Dynamics MB, or Business Ed MB, or a ton of other more relevant subjects. Stosh

Great Advice lets give people reasons not to join Boy Scouts and give another option where Families can spend what few chances they have to spend time together. Since Boy Scouts is about Youth unless it is Female youth then they don't matter Unique organizations that make the move towards what everyone else is doing, usually lose membership to those who are already set up to be generic and do a better job at it. Unless BSA remains different from the rest of the pack, serving boys, then if everyone is the same, membership choice is nothing more than picking a name out of a hat. Why would families want to join a program just for boys? They don't. Do boys want to join a program just for boys? Yep, do they want their little sister tagging along? Nope. So, if the parents decide on a family program for their family, they need to check out the YMCA. If they want a program just for their boy, BSA fits the bill. Stosh

I refer to all my scouts as Mr. _____. It really cuts down on the respect issues. Stosh

I would let the review committee know the boy handled no funds. Simply notifying the congregation that the church is seeking funds for the project is not the same as actually going through a fundraising process. Any member of the congregation could have made the same announcement and not handled any funds. The church secretary that puts the announcement in the bulletin is not participating in the process of fundraising. If she collects the money and processes it, she is. I shy away from Eagle Projects that need resources, unless the beneficiary handles all the expenses. The boy only does the work using the materials provided. Stosh

I was surprised at all the "fishermen" I had with me on our BWCA trip that couldn't fillet a fish. Heck, that's not even a survival skill! Field dressing a deer is no picnic either, but it has to be learned if one is going to go hunting. I'm still old-fashioned enough to do my deer butchering and not take the $$ way out and have it done at the locker. Stosh

I remember my college finance professor telling the class that regardless of what they learn in college, out in the business world it only means you are trainable. Stosh

I have this problem right now. I have one boy, maybe 2 next week in my newly forming troop. The DE suggested I dual register with older boys from nearby troops to assist in getting the troop off the ground. They would have to be primary registered in my troop to make it work. I can have 2 registered boys and 15 dual registered from other troops and none of them will help qualify the numbers for my troop. Stosh

For me, it would depend on the POR. SPL and ASPL, Scribe, etc. would all be involved with pre-activity responsibilities. QM, may need to be on-hand during the activity, obviously the Bugler would need to be there, Chaplain Aide should be there. PL and/or APL HAVE to be there. If the Scribe does all the registration work, financial collection, and paperwork for an activity, in my book, the only necessity he would have on an outing would be to have fun. If the SPL/ASPL haven't done their prep work of assisting the PL's getting ready, they would be along only for an occasional need here and there, but the SPL and ASPL could easily tag-team that process. Part of teamwork is getting the boys to either be there to fulfill a responsibility of train someone (leadership) and assign (management) to get the job done. There's nothing in my "book" that requires rules for attendance. One can fulfill their responsibilities and miss an occasional event due to scheduling conflicts. Like I said before family, school, church all have a higher priority than scouting and I never seem to have a problem with the boys' attendance. Stosh

There was a gal in 4-H that raised a turkey for her project and when it was done she had a 43# turkey. It was so big, even dressed out, it wouldn't fit in any oven. So she donated it to a boy scout troop. To get it to camp, the boys needed a cooler with wheels! They did a tripod/aluminum foil oven and cooked it for the whole camp. It was excellent! Stosh

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I think they were referring to hunting with weapons. When I was a kid, butchering chickens didn't fall into the category of hunting. Chasing, maybe, but not hunting. Two nails in a stump and a belt ax and then having them run around for a while is a lot more fun than wringing their necks. There's a real good reason for the adage: "Running around like a chicken with it's head cut off." You're going to have to have a PTSD program for your boys if you do it, however. Setting a snare fits into the category of trapping and you need a different license for that. Stosh

When I was an EMT and did the preso, it was never a lecture. Had the ambulance there, lights, siren, air splints, back board, KED, c-collars, the whole nine yards. After a hour, the parents had to drag the boys away kicking and screaming! If the EMT isn't sitting on the rear deck of an ambulance for his "lecture" he isn't doing it right. Got a chance once to call in Life-flight for a pack meeting.... Nothing neater than directing in the craft to the baseball field after dark. Flares, flashlights, the whole ball game. (Actually it was a legitimate training run for our unit and Life-flight The ball field next to the school was the local target. We just requested a change of training date to match the pack meeting.) After an hour, the pack leadership had to drag the boys AND THEIR PARENTS away kicking and screaming. Stosh

Dime Bags??? When I was a kid they were Nickel Bags. I need to doobie up and get with it. Times are a-changin'. Stosh

WestCoastScouter: Yeah, and let that be a lesson to you! After 104 posts, you are obviously an old veteran at this and asking questions the forum is not allowed. Only on Jeopardy are your answers supposed to be in the form of a question. And Tampa, you know better than to answer a question with a question. Stosh

I don't know how "officially legal" it is in regards to BSA policy, but when one has a signed form from the parent designating me as temporary guardian for the trip, I have taken boys on the Webelos II outings when the parents can't come. I don't like doing that, but I'm really not in favor of telling a boy he can't go because a parent can't go. After all, the program is for the boys. I've never had a situation where siblings wanted to go or even a second parent. It is made very clear that it's for the boys and one parent is invited on the trip, period. No complaints. IF... I ever got push back on it, my response would be, "Sorry to hear you're boy won't be able to make it." As DL, I can make all the rules I want pertaining to attendance because I'm the one responsible and if I don't want more than X number of people (# of boys attending, times 2) then I have a right to say so. If the wedding invitation is addressed to "you and guest", you don't assume you can bring your whole family. This is not without precedent. I have had occasions where parents can't go and give me permission to be temporary guardian for the event. In those instances I get an older scout to buddy up with him so he doesn't feel "alone" on the trip and there's a set of eyes to keep tabs on him. Those parings seem to fare better than the boy/parent ones. Stosh

I've never taken Webelos II camping with more than one parent. Boys bunked with boys, not parents. Works just fine, never had a problem, but then I don't go looking for it by declaring a free-for-all event. In all the years I have spent with BSA I've never attended a "family" camp event, don't ever plan to in the future either. If it isn't "for the boys" it's not worth the hassle. This is a youth program, not a family program. YMCA has family programs, families are free to check them out. Stosh

I carry a pocket knife all the time and I've been on school property and no one ever has questioned it. I don't take it out of my pocket so no one knows. However, I do carry more weapons in my pocket than my ineffective pocket knife. A handful of keys makes a rather formidable "brass knuckle" if all those keys stick out from between your fingers. And of course, one quick jerk of my belt and I have a garrote with an 8 oz lead buckle on one end. The pencil in my pocket can do as much damage as a pocket knife, The last time I got caught with my pocket knife was going through security in the Parliament Building in Ottawa. They took it along with my finger nail clipper, dropped it in a bag, put my name on it and smiled and said, I could pick it up on my way out. He did make a comment about how cool it was I carried a Boy Scout knife. Stosh

Tin foil is your friend.... It protects your credit cards your passport your smartphone your pacemaker and it makes a great hat just in case the government is around and you have to keep something "under your hat." In this day and age one doesn't have to think they're paranoid, there's enough evidence out there to convince the average citizen that paranoia is a good thing. Stosh

Hey, ya gotta Be Prepared just in case it ever happens! Stosh