Stosh

If my wife dedicated 3 years of support for me, my response would be more than a funny patch. I'm thinking a nice BSA plaque of appreciation presented to her by me at her favorite restaurant over a glass of wine would be more in line with how I felt about that support.

I think the responses on the forum would be more positive if the question was, "What should the OA be doing?" It varies from one lodge to the next as to what actually happens, just like Packs vary and Troops vary.

I have no idea where my beads, woggle and necker are.... Same for my OA sash. Stosh

In our council, they do pretty much nothing. They go through the motions for call-outs, ordeals, etc and help a bit around the camp. When they came to do an OA election in my last troop, the OA member showed up in blue jeans and school sweatshirt. My SPL told him he can come back when he finds his uniform. He never came back, ever and that was the end of the OA program for that troop. Hopefully other forum members can add something more positive. Stosh

My SPL attended Roundtables all the time. His input was as important as anyone else's. He didn't show up just to go off with the OA guys in another room. He stayed with the SM/ASM's. As the adults planned district activities they always would take into consideration what he had to say about what he thought the boys would like. Only one ever questioned his presence at the meetings and yet never brought their own SPL's. I had one person early on ask why I brought my SPL and I said, that we were boy led and he was just doing his job. He smiled and the subject never came up again. Stosh

I never have a problem with adults supporting the activity of the scouts. But the emphasis always remains on supporting, not doing. Every scouter needs to be first of all a teacher, helping the boys do for themselves, not doing it for them. A lot of parents have no idea what that means. This concept is the first thing I teach my boys and expect every adult to follow. "What can I do, if anything, to help?", but used only if the boys seem to be struggling with something. "No, I won't do that for you, but I have a couple of suggestions you might want to consider to get the job done...." In Boy Scouts when it comes to adults, they never have problems. They help the boys with their problems. Ownership always stays with the boys as does the solution. When a child is small, the parent solves the child's problems, they're hungry, you feed them, they're cold, you put on more clothes, etc. By the time they're 18, the parent should have taught them to do all these things for themselves and their future children. We have too many parents that don't do this and then can't figure out why they don't move out of their house. Qwazse, you have a good start, but I wouldn't offer as many "solutions". You need Kayaks? What do you think adults do when they need kayaks?" If you say, "Talk to Mr. Stosh.... " then you are solving their problem and not teaching them how to creatively figure it out on their own. The SPL should have a list of adults that can help and it's up to the PL's to start making phone calls if they need something. Maybe the phrase, "Mr. Stosh owns a kayak, maybe he could help. Mr. Stosh's phone number should be on the troop roster, if you need that." Every time an adult does something for the boys, they steal an opportunity to learn and lead. Stosh

I enjoy both schools of thought, but then again I can't always afford the new stuff. Of course it all depends on a variety of different issues. I remember once when we had a horrendous downpour and all the boys were soaked in their modern tents. My canvas tent with no floor was the only place in camp that stayed dry. I had a cot, rubber bin and fold up chair inside my tent and everything stayed dry except the ground where about 2" of water flowed through for most of the night. What flowed through my setup, was caught up in the floors of the modern tents. I guess 50 years of camping experience is often more valuable than the latest and greatest from REI. Stosh

First of all as the boy approaches his 18th birthday, he has a SMC where the SM reemphasizes his/her appreciation for all that he has done FOR THE TROOP. Stay off the FOR YOURSELF focus. Secondly he has a Exit BOR. Here a committee of adults and SPL review his scouting accomplishments and has an "exit interview" with him about his scouting experiences. This needs to also focus, just like all other BOR's, on his past accomplishments (of what he did for others?) and future scouting career (what are you going to do for others?) . What are his plans for adult training at all levels so he's ready when his son is, etc. Wood Badge discussion could also be included. Eagles are "expected" to give back to Scouting? Well, you have a far better chance of having this boy "give back" than a lot of Eagles make with some sort of "pledge" they make and immediately ignore. Third, on the weekend following his 18th birthday, he crosses over yet one more time. Boy Scouts to Scoutering (is there such a word?) I don't think Scout Spirit should be as big an emphasis as Scouting Servant Leadership, where he is recognized as a valuable part of the program that will continue on in his adult years and the opportunity to help others in their scouting careers. A review of his accomplishments, i.e. table of his scouting history, etc. just like ECOH would be appropriate, and testimonials from his buddies on how much his contribution to the troop meant especially those he may have mentored, could also apply. There's a lot of things that mean a lot of different things to different people. You must know the boy well enough to know what is really important to him that may in fact be more important than an Eagle patch. I never reached Eagle as a boy, but I wear 2 Eagle Mentor pins on my dress shirt collar that mean more to me than any other award I have ever earned on my shirt including any WB beads or knots. This birthday marks his passage into adulthood and what better place to recognize that than in Scouting where 7 years have been dedicated to getting him ready for that transition. Now is not the time to wallow in self-pity, but be recognized for how important he is to others now that he's reached adulthood. Maybe the award could be the Leo Award, with Leo being one of the main characters in Herman Hess's book "Journey to the East". Kind of a good read about true leadership. Stosh Oh, yeah, one other thing... the gift from the troop. A coffee mug. OMG, my daughter just sent me an appropriate example to use. The Dr. Who award. A time lord, super hero that travels through time and spaced armed only with a sonic screwdriver, in his TARDIS space vehicle which looks like a Police Call Box where people can come for help and he is unique in that he has two hearts. Really kind of a nice symbol.

Oh, really? There is such a thing? Your #4 is listed in my #3. Stosh

As SM, my last items on my to-do list are: 1) stopping by the Library and picking up a good half dozen books. 2) stopping by the grocery store for coffee. 3) stopping by and picking up the boys. Stosh

Scout #1: Earns eagle at 14 and leaves the troop. Scout #2: Earns his eagle, but took a 3 year hiatus coming back only to get the rank. Scout #3: Earns whatever rank he wants, and stays active and contributes for 7 years in the troop. A scout is trustworth, loyal, helpful... Gimme #3 any day over the other two "eagles". Stosh

The lashings stay tighter if the finishing knot is viewed as a double half hitch on a log rather than trying to tie a clove hitch. Tie a half hitch, pull it really tight, then tie the second half hitch. Voila, nice and tight. Looks like a clove hitch so you'll pass muster. Stosh

I just spent a week "discussing" with the feeder Pack that boys that want to get into Boy Scouts and are qualified shouldn't be held back by the Pack. Last Monday I had a single boy crossover. His buddies' parents didn't press the issue and thus are still in the Pack waiting for the traditional crossover. To me the crossover will always be a welcome ceremony by the Troop in the Pack setting. If boys are qualified for Boy Scouts, and they want to join up, only the boy should be determining when that happens, not the Pack. Stosh

BSA First Class logo is always appropriate. Stosh

Gotta read the whole story. The 15 mile hike wasn't the problem. The problem lies in the fact that at any time the little guy wants to go home, HE makes the decision for the whole group. Stosh

Okay, you have SM (adult #1) and ASM (adult #2) and his small son along on a trip. SM isn't happy about it, but he goes along because he needs ASM for 2-deep. Well the boys want to do a 15 mile day hike. Well, small son can't walk that far, so the boys can't do that. Well the older boys (300' away) decide to do an activity, but Adults and small son are off by themselves and small son is now bored to death by 10:00 am, and wants to go home. According to BSA policy, that activity is now cancelled, ASM has to take small son home so he can play his video games. Sure these are all made up scenarios, but I've been around youth for 40+ years and know that when the best laid plans of mice and men are in place, there's always something out there that can jump up bite you in the butt and you never saw it coming. One boy twisting an ankle at Philmont will basically bring that day's hike to a screeching halt. And that's even with everyone that is supposed to be there is. Sometimes problems find you, but why go looking for them? Stosh

When the PL's gather for their PLC they should know what activities there are planned for the month. The SM and ASM's can sit in and listen and when they hear the Bear patrol is planning on a day hike on Saturday, they simply take notes and provide the appropriate logistics support for the activity. The boys have made plans that all the patrols have decided on Camp Timbucktoo? The SM and ASM's will then listen carefully for the dates and begin proper logistics planning to make sure everyone gets there. I don't see there is any need for a separate person operating outside the SPL/PLC boy-communication process. All the advisers I have seen seem to be very reflective of helicopter type dynamics that interfere with the boy-led process. And as worse case scenario, the PL's can actually write down the information on a slip of paper that they give to the SPL after their report and the Scribe can collect these up and do a followup with the adults letting them know they will need X number of drivers on such and such a date. Seriously, a single adviser sitting in on a PL meeting won't have that information available anyway. Maybe there should be an adult adviser patrol committee to make sure there are enough adults for 2-deep to make sure they can answer immediately. Nope, just don't see any positive advantage to having den mothers/patrol dads hanging around after Webelos II. If the PL needs "outside" help, his first option is the SPL, not some adult. If the SPL needs help, there's the SM. Boy-led means the boys handle all situations on their own, once they get to the point where they can't, the first adult they go to is the SM. That's what he/she's there for. Stosh

This can be done anywhere out-of-doors, someone's yard, woods, park, etc. Put out hula hoops and each boy/team inventories everything in their circle. Different grasses, leaves, twigs, animals, insects, rocks, etc. The boy/team with the largest inventory wins. Second winner is the one/team who can identify the most of what they have inventoried. Awards can also be given for finding something unique and not part of anyone else's inventory. LNT - make sure the boy identifies the item or sketches it. Stosh

Sounds like a boy-led babysitting service. 1) The adult is not necessary 2) It undermines the duties of the SPL/ASPL team 3) If an issue arises that the SPL needs advice on, he can always consult with the SM and/or someone he/she recommends. PL's run the show for their patrols. SPL supports them. If SPL needs support he has his PLC and/or SM Otherwise the advice to all adults, MYOB unless asked. Stosh

Seriously? What do a Tiger Cub and Senior in high school have in common? A single parent maybe? Why is the troop putting that kind of pressure on the parent? Either you find a babysitter and show up or the troop will have to cancel it's outing. C'mon, is that really fair? A program needs to be a lot more robust than that. We all have conflicts on our calendars. Flexibility and coordination is needed to make it happen. My wife will be out of town that weekend, and I have to stay home with Little Johnny. I can drive up a few of the boys, but I can't stay. I can come back on Sunday to pick them up. Yes, I have done that myself. My boy has two sisters. Jeff

Moose, I was responding to Basement's comments that without him there would be no outdoor program. That's cutting the adult leadership too thin and jeopardizes the program of a viable troop. Maybe this troop is not all that viable. It doesn't refer to any other troop where multiple leaders can keep the program flowing even if one or two adults with children can't make it at that time. Stosh

There is no way my comments were focused on anyone not going above and beyond to help the troops they serve. My new troop has no bank account and boys are just getting up and going, that means for at least the first five boys, it's $20 for necker and book, (out of my pocket). That's $100. And then they come around and arm twist me for FOS. Yeah, right. Over the years I have had to prioritize my efforts to keep it from becoming a burden. I have invested $X in uniform parts inventory and only go out and buy on Ebay when there's a size I don't have. It is only for the new boys. Older boys can trade for larger sizes but the closet doesn't provide a second uniform for anyone. I guess the only rationalization I can give you is that we all do what we have to to make it happen for the boys. Over the past 30 years of scouting, the money I have "donated" would have easily covered a few nice trips for the Mrs. and I. Fortunately for me, a nice trip for the Mrs. is kayaking the BWCA for a week. Had I picked a high maintenance Mrs. it might have been a different story. I always stay in constant communication with the CC on this issue so that they know what's going on. Also I expect the boys to be Thrifty and work on the expenses as well. If one is elected PL they know that the patch and handbook aren't free and need to make arrangements for that. Is the Librarian keeping track of these books? A lot of those conversations are important for the boys to know as well what is going on. Too often, they are expected to hand over $15 for an outing and don't see the big picture of what that all involves. A boy-led program needs to know these details. I see too many adults not exposing this to their boys. A functional Scribe will know all the details of everything financial in the troop. Otherwise, they are wearing a patch and coasting through their POR requirement. And if one is leading by example, why aren't the boys informed of the money the adults contribute to make their program a success? If the boys know I am "sponsoring" the uniform parts closet, when they donate back at the end of their scouting career to that closet, are they not following the example I have set? A boy-led program requires a lot more transparency than what is often the case in a lot of troops. Stosh

I'm thinking some sort of "birthday"/"graduation" party/celebration is appropriate for any scout that stays with the troop until he ages out regardless of his rank. Are you celebrating rank (ECOH) or are you recognizing the contribution the boy has made? After all give me a First Class scout that has done it all and turns 18 in the troop and I'll take him over any 14 year old ""Eagle" that somehow manages to "disappear" after his ECOH. Like I have said before, Eagle is nice, but there are other character measurements out there that I hold higher than rank. Stosh

We used to play marbles at recess and lunch hour when I was that age. I still have all my marbles, so to speak. Stosh

I know what limited resources are. I have a newly forming troop of 2 boys. That's me and 4 parents. But even then I don't think it's good to put such strain on an established troop that if one person can't or won't go the activity falls apart. If that be the case, it is obvious that the troop is no longer viable and needs to be disbanded and the boys moved to another troop where they will receive a program that isn't relying on the availability of 2 or 3 people. If a troop is relying on parents and Wolf Cubs to have a successful program, it's time to quit. Stosh